Skull Lofts Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 Hi all As i understand it Garlic destroys bacteria. My question is wouldnt it even destroy the good bacteria from PROBIOTICS? Skull Lofts
joe61 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 garlic wards of vampires and flavours spagetti bog, thats about all it does. otherwise everyone would be taking it. oh happy days
Skull Lofts Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Posted March 16, 2009 Yes it does Which one of the 2 is the best to give your birds, then?
jimmy white Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 both good , but my preference without a doubt is garlic,, for humans and pigeons,, this has the most amazing qualities, allmost endless, and in my opinion a great natural, do gooder one of the oldest remedies known to man ;D even the egyptions used it,, my mummy told me that,, [they get worse ;D]
PIGEON_MAN Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 Probiotics - without a doubt Interested why you picked Probiotics over Garlic.?
Guest IB Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 I think they are two opposites, they do very different jobs, and they must not be mixed (though GEM does it in Strike2 :-/ ) I've been given advice by Merial (Flightpath) to leave at least 48 hours between giving garlic and Flightpath. I used to put garlic in their drinking water during race weekends; I altered that to be 3 weekends out of 4, leaving a week between them.
hotrod Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 both good , but my preference without a doubt is garlic,, for humans and pigeons,, this has the most amazing qualities, allmost endless, and in my opinion a great natural, do gooder one of the oldest remedies known to man ;D even the egyptions used it,, my mummy told me that,, [they get worse ;D] totally agree jimmy GARLIC ALL THE WAY ,skull try giving garlic in the water for a few days watch the down fall. (crushed garlic cloves, 3 or 4 in a 1ltr bottle of water leave in fridge for a week shake and add to the water , then top up the bottle after a few weeks add some fresh cloves )
PIGEON_MAN Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 I think they are two opposites, they do very different jobs, and they must not be mixed (though GEM does it in Strike2 :-/ ) I've been given advice by Merial (Flightpath) to leave at least 48 hours between giving garlic and Flightpath. I used to put garlic in their drinking water during race weekends; I altered that to be 3 weekends out of 4, leaving a week between them. Ian you say that the two must not be mixed,but you say Gem do it with Strike,are you saying that the Gem people have got it seriously wrong,somehow I cant see that.
greenlands Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 If I had to choose it would be garlic every time,nothing against probiotics just my preference.
REDCHEQHEN Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 Interested why you picked Probiotics over Garlic.? Cos I believe giving them probiotics keeps their gut healthy more so than garlic - and given the choice between the two - thats what I'd pick they get double doses - day of basketting and double doses on their return lots of things make the down feathers fall - and I think putting garlic in the water makes the birds drink less - because they don't particularly like it
Guest IB Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 Ian you say that the two must not be mixed,but you say Gem do it with Strike,are you saying that the Gem people have got it seriously wrong,somehow I cant see that. Tony, it starts late 2007. In ‘Vet Tips for Fanciers’ ISBN 978-963-86999-1-6, Pages 14 -20, an in vitro experiment is described in which garlic kills certain friendly bacteria, but not other friendly bacteria. The author suggests that this is because some probiotic strains are resistant to garlic, and cautioned readers to find out if their probiotic was resistant or not. I emailed Microbial Developments asking for confirmation that FlightPath was resistant to Garlic. Dr David Reynolds replied 6/12/2007:- Garlic extracts have antimicrobial properties that are effective against bacteria, fungus and protozoa. Both pathogenic and commensal bacteria are affected by garlic, the primary active agent of which is allicin. If you use garlic extracts or any other preparation containing allicin you will affect the pathogens you are trying to kill off and the commensal bacteria that you would rather not. There is evidence for garlic oil that pathogens are actually more resistant than commensal bacteria (Ross O’Gara, Hill, Sleightholme & Maslin 2001, App Env Micro 67(1): 475-480). This suggests that by using garlic extracts to kill off any pathogens that may be present you are disturbing the normal commensal flora. The above study was done in vitro so it is not clear how much garlic extract would have to be given to a bird to obtain the equivalent antimicrobial effect. You may be simply giving the birds a low dose that is affecting the commensal bacteria but not any pathogens that may be present – exactly the opposite of what you would like to achieve. We have not determined the allicin MICs [Minimal inhibitory concentration – lowest concentration of drug that inhibits more than 99% of the bacterial population] for the bacteria present in FlightPath but many of them will be susceptible to allicin. If you would like to continue using garlic extract it makes sense to use FlightPath to re-establish the normal commensal flora after garlic treatment. Assuming you are using a sufficiently high dose of the extract to kill pathogens, I would suggest leaving a 48 hour gap before giving FlightPath to allow the effects of the garlic to degrade. However this said it is probably unlikely that you can generate a sufficiently high allicin concentration to affect the FlightPath bacteria. Once established, the FlightPath flora is capable of maintaining performance even when birds have been treated with therapeutic doses of most antibiotics (note that some antibiotics do have a deleterious effect).
jimmy white Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 Cos I believe giving them probiotics keeps their gut healthy more so than garlic - and given the choice between the two - thats what I'd pick they get double doses - day of basketting and double doses on their return lots of things make the down feathers fall - and I think putting garlic in the water makes the birds drink less - because they don't particularly like it this is a very true,, they do not particularly like it,, but i feel they soon get used to a sensible amount,, but never put anything in their water on a friday,, and as you say theres many things make the down feathers fall,, but really ,, if in superb health the down feathers should fall naturally ,, i remember jack adams putting a damp hession folded sack, in their nest box at night,, he reckoned this made the down feathers fall,, which actually worked,,but in my opinion ,, its nice to see those down feathers stuck to a lovely few nice firm droppings naturally , first thing in the morning ,, but i do beleive garlic given regular, does help in the birds health,, but, again , as with pigeons , many roads lead to rome
Guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Posted March 16, 2009 all my breeding pairs are given yougart :-/ for the first 6 days of feeding,havent used garlic for some 8 years,if it was that good we would all be eating it as it is very cheap.
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