Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[Guest]

Likewise with these Paras etc. Samonella etc. I don't believe that Baytril is of any use either.

 

Roland I use Baytril to clean the birds prior to vaccinating, no other reason, I'm told by the medical men that if you don't your birds might get infected/keel over by straight vaccination. So in that respect I don't believe its useless.

[Guest]

I've just spent about 30 minutes typing a reply to previous postings. And woosh!ALL GONE This really does annoy, me so  I  will make this one short.  Since the treatment of 12 days Baytril and two vaccinations, one in between the 12 day Baytril treatment , MY birds are now absolutely brilliant! Wattles have the chalky whiteness back, but above all  the body "feeling" has been the most remarkable difference. This is a sickness that one would think we should notice, but for some strange reason. I didn't. It seems to take over so slowly somehow. Hard to explain!  Vic.

 

Hi Vic hopefully your birds will be back to normal for next year as well. Interested that you did it for 12 days what percentage of Baytril did you use and what rate, I've used 1ml tto 2 litre of 20%. I'd be interested why 12 days instead of 10. I wonder if Larry knows, would like to know for my own benefit becasue I'm due to treat and vaccinate shortly

[Roland]

Mis - read Allbear... Sorry I  thought you meant as part of a cureas posted meant as.

So in affect am right to some degree as 'Part of'... !

[Guest Paulo]

Your bang on Alan,years ago novices would always come onto the youngbird stage full of power and optimism,many would win the 1st maybe 2nd race,but would start to fall back when the old hands had finished dealings with the longest old bird race and the novice in his haste would slowly ,surely succum to health problems because stress with no rest.

  WHAT A DIFFERENCE NOW ,NOVICES GET NO LOOKIN,FANCIERS WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER CONCETRATE ON THE YOUNGBIRD SERIES,DOMINATING OUT OF GREED /PROFIT OF FUTURE SELLS, I THINK EXPERIENCED FANCIERS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TAKE ANY PRIZES IN YOUNGBIRD RACING,EXCEPT IN NATIONAL TYPE.

 

Young bird racing has become more specialised but if you really want to win you have to fight them at their own game. This year was my first full season as a novice last year with natural young birds only i got one 4th. This year after consulting more experienced fanciers including lads on here I ended up runner up to the YB averages!

 

So it is possible to compete you just have to do your research and want tit bad enough. I find a lot of fun has gone out of yb racing though and its harder work than the OB's at times!

[Guest Paulo]

And I think the point I'm trying to make above is very important. I think we lose more new fanciers and novices because of health issues they get with their birds and can't deal with. More often than not the old sage of the club will have recommended natural immunity a genuine piece of advice, whereas the club's top men say nowt about how they medicate because I would say 80% do becasue they want to stay top men.

 

Exactly a health programme is the most important thing with birds. A lot of the old timers who say they don't medicate have their birds crawling with lice and ill! In race condition I don't think so!

 

What novices have to understand though is theres no magic wonder drug. You have to treat intellgently and bring your pigeons into top condition though good management and training.

 

Fit well managed healthy pigeons win races fact!

 

The hardest piece in the jig saw I've found is the moviation its the last magic bit that gets you them extra yards and wins races.

 

A fit healthly pigeon properly moviated thats of good blood will fly through a brick wall to get back to its loft and win for its owner. Its finding that magic switch in their head that makes the bird think "sod this I'm coming home.'' then nothing can stop it!

 

Some birds like chipping eggs, jeasouly works better for some birds. Its all about getting to know the bird and knowing what clicks!

 

The old top men who had small teams were masters of moviation!

[DOVEScot]

If they cannae eradicate germs in hospitals then how can you expect to eradicate them in a pigeon loft, you have to manage them simple as that. If you go on holiday or in fanciers terms send your birds to race you take precautions.

I have travelled quite a bit and if I go to a place like XXXXX where typhoid is rife I get a vaccination to boost my immune system before I go, it does not stop me from getting it but it is the best available safeguard apart from not going in the first place. But I do know guys that go to work in these places that do not take the precausions and think it will never happen to them, I am sure it is the same in all walks of life including pigeons :-/

 

[nogin]

:'(

If they cannae eradicate germs in hospitals then how can you expect to eradicate them in a pigeon loft, you have to manage them simple as that. If you go on holiday or in fanciers terms send your birds to race you take precautions.

I have travelled quite a bit and if I go to a place like XXXXX where typhoid is rife I get a vaccination to boost my immune system before I go, it does not stop me from getting it but it is the best available safeguard apart from not going in the first place. But I do know guys that go to work in these places that do not take the precausions and think it will never happen to them, I am sure it is the same in all walks of life including pigeons :-/

 

never a truer word and the race BASCKETS are that place. :'(

[Wiley]

If they cannae eradicate germs in hospitals then how can you expect to eradicate them in a pigeon loft, you have to manage them simple as that. If you go on holiday or in fanciers terms send your birds to race you take precautions.

I have travelled quite a bit and if I go to a place like XXXXX where typhoid is rife I get a vaccination to boost my immune system before I go, it does not stop me from getting it but it is the best available safeguard apart from not going in the first place. But I do know guys that go to work in these places that do not take the precausions and think it will never happen to them, I am sure it is the same in all walks of life including pigeons :-/

 

But then again have you seen the state of NHS hospitials lol the saying is true ive seen cleaner pigeon lofts  ;D ;D ;D

[Guest IB]

You know this reminds me of the thread where I stated a pigeon of ransoms would be a good breeder beside giving its racing capability. Jack came on and gave the theory of how it couldn't be. Ransom confirmed that the bird was as I said.

And here we have theory that you should not give medicine rotinely on a maintenance basis. Now I admit my routine is not very often but its still routine. My yearlings won across the channel in 2007 2 x1 2x2 3x3  and a couple of 4ths (approx) . This year with 3 2yo anf 6 yearling cocks they all flew at least 300 mile and across te chanel scored 1 x1 3x2 1x4 1x6 in 4 races and 78th open NFC Tarbes 556 miles. My partner with a similar routine more vigurous won 1st section nFc and 7 x 1 st. Now I will concede they may suffer on your theory in the future. Now let me ask you a question and its a genuine one not meant to belittle or help you blow your trumpet. What were your performances , or if not what were your performances the last two years you raced from 250 miles + to 600, cause that's the proof of the theory for me.

 

First on ‘my theory’. It is neither mine, nor a theory. It is an agreed Policy in the medical profession throughout the EU,  that routine antibiotic treatments have no part to play in human or animal health. For example: (1) routine adding of antibiotics to food animals’ feed was outlawed in EU from 2006. (2) 2 weeks ago our TV Supplement carried an NHS advert, ‘don’t ask your doctor for an antibiotic for a cold or a sore throat. You won’t get it’. It went on to explain that it wouldn’t cure most of these illnesses ...

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Antibiotics/Pages/QA1.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx

 

You have connections in NHS, check the Policy out for yourself.

 

Now on your theory, that medicating birds helps you win races. With respect, I believe that winning is more down to the quality of your birds, your knowledge of and work with them, their roadwork and your motivation of them. And that applies to other fliers too – in my opinion it’s you that help your birds win, not medication.

 

My 2008 results:

I started with 4 x 2yo that had not been raced out (399) miles as yearlings, intending these to go 570 miles. I dropped 3 long before that stage, and the remaining cock didn’t go, thanks to my own mismanagement of him (roadwork). My yearlings consisted mainly of late breds, unraced as YBs though lightly trained. They have had minimal racing as yearlings and they are still there for 2009. Main yearlings racing contingent, 9  birds, had racing experience as YBs, but not raced out (250) miles. I’ve 5 left, 2 out to 270 miles, and 3 timed in 2 x inland nationals, 330 & 399 miles, though not on the result. Although off-pace, that’s still 3 more than I got in inland Nationals previous 2 years, so it is an immense improvement. I’ve 12 OBs for 2009 and I am looking forward to racing them to 560 / 630 miles.

 

I raced 23 Natural YBs, and these have been raced out as far as their moult allowed, 100, 150, 180 and 250 miles. I was 2nd club and 12th Open at 180 miles. I had 4 at the YB National (250 miles) 2 in the clock 1st day,  1 on the SNFC result (no position, but she was also first bird in our club winning the club Cup). The other 2 arrived next morning (in race time). I’ve 17 left. I’m happy that they have been ‘raced out’ and looking forward to racing them as yearlings to 330, 399 and 445 miles in 2009.

 

So as I’ve remarked in other threads, I brought in new birds in 2007 and changed my methods in 2008 to ‘setting targets’ - racing my birds out to ‘X distance’. I obviously made mistakes, especially on motivation & roadwork, and I will work to correct these in 2009. My birds' condition attracted favourable comments from my club mates towards the end of both OB and YB seasons.

 

Medication is not about Racing, it is about Health. So 'I treated my birds with parastop and I won 2 races' is basically a load of crap, winning had sod-all to do with meds, and everything to do with how the birds were handled by the fancier, training, motivation etc. All performance improvements in my birds were down to me, and not medication, which I use only when prescribed by the vet.  And I have never had Paratyphoid, YBS or anything major in any of my birds - ever. My birds are currently on a 5-day course, having been diagnosed with ‘significant’ cocci counts, high enough that they should have the disease. But they don’t, in fact they are absolutely bouncing. The YBs took 4 cards at 2 of the clubs shows 2 weeks ago, including 2nd and 4th Handling Class, 106 birds in that class. According to the fate of some sick birds on other threads on this Site, birds with ‘coccidiosis’ usually die, and very quickly, they are certainly not expected to take Cards at Shows.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

 

First on ‘my theory’. It is neither mine, nor a theory. It is an agreed Policy in the medical profession throughout the EU,  that routine antibiotic treatments have no part to play in human or animal health. For example: (1) routine adding of antibiotics to food animals’ feed was outlawed in EU from 2006. (2) 2 weeks ago our TV Supplement carried an NHS advert, ‘don’t ask your doctor for an antibiotic for a cold or a sore throat. You won’t get it’. It went on to explain that it wouldn’t cure most of these illnesses ...

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Antibiotics/Pages/QA1.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx

 

You have connections in NHS, check the Policy out for yourself.

 

Now on your theory, that medicating birds helps you win races. With respect, I believe that winning is more down to the quality of your birds, your knowledge of and work with them, their roadwork and your motivation of them. And that applies to other fliers too – in my opinion it’s you that help your birds win, not medication.

 

My 2008 results:

I started with 4 x 2yo that had not been raced out (399) miles as yearlings, intending these to go 570 miles. I dropped 3 long before that stage, and the remaining cock didn’t go, thanks to my own mismanagement of him (roadwork). My yearlings consisted mainly of late breds, unraced as YBs though lightly trained. They have had minimal racing as yearlings and they are still there for 2009. Main yearlings racing contingent, 9  birds, had racing experience as YBs, but not raced out (250) miles. I’ve 5 left, 2 out to 270 miles, and 3 timed in 2 x inland nationals, 330 & 399 miles, though not on the result. Although off-pace, that’s still 3 more than I got in inland Nationals previous 2 years, so it is an immense improvement. I’ve 12 OBs for 2009 and I am looking forward to racing them to 560 / 630 miles.

 

I raced 23 Natural YBs, and these have been raced out as far as their moult allowed, 100, 150, 180 and 250 miles. I was 2nd club and 12th Open at 180 miles. I had 4 at the YB National (250 miles) 2 in the clock 1st day,  1 on the SNFC result (no position, but she was also first bird in our club winning the club Cup). The other 2 arrived next morning (in race time). I’ve 17 left. I’m happy that they have been ‘raced out’ and looking forward to racing them as yearlings to 330, 399 and 445 miles in 2009.

 

So as I’ve remarked in other threads, I brought in new birds in 2007 and changed my methods in 2008 to ‘setting targets’ - racing my birds out to ‘X distance’. I obviously made mistakes, especially on motivation & roadwork, and I will work to correct these in 2009. My birds' condition attracted favourable comments from my club mates towards the end of both OB and YB seasons.

 

Medication is not about Racing, it is about Health. So 'I treated my birds with parastop and I won 2 races' is basically a load of crap, winning had sod-all to do with meds, and everything to do with how the birds were handled by the fancier, training, motivation etc. All performance improvements in my birds were down to me, and not medication, which I use only when prescribed by the vet.  And I have never had Paratyphoid, YBS or anything major in any of my birds - ever. My birds are currently on a 5-day course, having been diagnosed with ‘significant’ cocci counts, high enough that they should have the disease. But they don’t, in fact they are absolutely bouncing. The YBs took 4 cards at 2 of the clubs shows 2 weeks ago, including 2nd and 4th Handling Class, 106 birds in that class. According to the fate of some sick birds on other threads on this Site, birds with ‘coccidiosis’ usually die, and very quickly, they are certainly not expected to take Cards at Shows.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stuff like canker and cocci treatments aren't antibionics mate.

 

[Guest Paulo]

"Exactly a health programme is the most important thing with birds. A lot of the old timers who say they don't medicate have their birds crawling with lice and ill! In race condition I don't think so!

 

What novices have to understand though is theres no magic wonder drug. You have to treat intellgently and bring your pigeons into top condition though good management and training.

 

Fit well managed healthy pigeons win races fact!

 

The hardest piece in the jig saw I've found is the moviation its the last magic bit that gets you them extra yards and wins races.

 

A fit healthly pigeon properly moviated thats of good blood will fly through a brick wall to get back to its loft and win for its owner. Its finding that magic switch in their head that makes the bird think "sod this I'm coming home.'' then nothing can stop it!

 

Some birds like chipping eggs, jeasouly works better for some birds. Its all about getting to know the bird and knowing what clicks!

 

The old top men who had small teams were masters of moviation!''

 

Like I said in the posting before medication is just a factor that has to be right along with the rest of the jigsaw puzzle!

 

If you get the birds tested before you treat its too late a lot of the time and form is gone!

 

Preventation is better than cure:-

 

Clean Loft

Controlled sensible medication programme i.e. treating for cocci and canker

 

No treating at all in the winter for anything unless birds get seriously ill

 

Use of natural products like strike and gemphanax to put good bacteria back into gut and keep birds healthy

 

People who say they don't treat at all are rarely successful pigeon men

 

Nor are those whose water is a different colour every day whgo don't have a medication plan and are just chucking crap in the water. The birds should have clear water for the vast majority of the time. Its one of the building blocks of life and birds don't like to drink treated water.

 

Theres a bloke in our club called chemical cause he puts that much different stuff in the water yet he's only got 1 point this year!

[Guest IB]

 

Stuff like canker and cocci treatments aren't antibionics mate.

 

That's a popular misconception Paulo. All that stuff you use for canker, cocci and worms ARE antibiotic or antimicrobials. Don't take my word for it - if you have these at home, look for the Active Ingredient and do a Web search for it.

[Guest IB]

There was a post talking about Garlic being ineffective against Salmonella, the subject of this thread. One of the very first research papers I came across was on garlic and salmonella. Here's another 2:-

 

Transactions of the Kansas Academy of Science

Article: pp. 148–154 | Abstract | PDF (319K)

Can garlic (Allium sativum) be used as a meat preservative?

Nandini Sarma

Mission Valley Middle School, 8500 Mission Road, Prairie Village, KS 66206 (E-mail: SportyN16@aol.com)

 

Garlic is known to have numerous beneficial effects for human health, yet not much work has been done previously to explore its use as a natural food preservative. This study was designed to evaluate if garlic can be used as a natural preservative to prevent meat spoilage due to bacterial growth during storage. Skinless chicken legs and non-pathogenic strains of Salmonella and E. coli were used as test models. Two-thirds of the chicken legs were experimentally contaminated with Salmonella and E. coli by dipping them in a bacterial suspension. Half of the contaminated chicken legs was then dipped in garlic extract for 10 minutes, and the other half was kept as the untreated control. Both treated and untreated legs were packed with clear plastic and stored at 4°C. All legs were swabbed individually at 0, 5 and 15 days of storage and tested for the presence of bacteria using nutrient agar plates. The experiment was done three times. The results of this experiment proved that garlic could be used as an effective meat preservative to prevent spoilage of meat due to bacterial growth. Garlic kept on killing bacteria when Salmonella and E. coli contaminated chicken legs were stored at 4°C up to 15 days. While the number of bacteria in the non-treated meat continued to increase upon storage, in the garlic treated meat bacterial growth was significantly reduced. The finding of this research would be helpful in making safe and healthy food products, eventually leading to maintaining better health.

 

http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1660%2F0022-8443(2004)107%5B0148%3ACGASBU%5D2.0.CO%3B2

 

 

As early as 1858, Louis Pasteur formally studied and recorded garlic's antibiotic properties. Dr. Albert Schweitzer used the herb to successfully treat cholera, typhus, and dysentery in Africa in the 1950s. Before antibiotics were widely available, garlic was used as a treatment for battle wounds during both World Wars.

 

Garlic can be used in the treatment of a variety of bacterial, viral, and fungal infections. It has been shown to be effective against staph, strep, E. coli, Salmonella, Vibrio cholera, H. pylori, Candida albicans, and other microorganisms. Garlic also helps prevent against heart disease and strokes. Current studies show that garlic can improve immune function and may even help in the prevention of cancer. To be of benefit in chronic conditions, garlic should be used daily over an extended period of time.

 

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/garlic/Print%20this%20article

 

 

I use crushed garlic in the drinkers on the evenings that the birds come home from races. I reckon that helps stop anything getting a foothold in my loft.

[Guest]

 

First on ‘my theory’. It is neither mine, nor a theory. It is an agreed Policy in the medical profession throughout the EU,  that routine antibiotic treatments have no part to play in human or animal health. For example: (1) routine adding of antibiotics to food animals’ feed was outlawed in EU from 2006. (2) 2 weeks ago our TV Supplement carried an NHS advert, ‘don’t ask your doctor for an antibiotic for a cold or a sore throat. You won’t get it’. It went on to explain that it wouldn’t cure most of these illnesses ...

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Antibiotics/Pages/QA1.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx

 

You have connections in NHS, check the Policy out for yourself.

 

Now on your theory, that medicating birds helps you win races. With respect, I believe that winning is more down to the quality of your birds, your knowledge of and work with them, their roadwork and your motivation of them. And that applies to other fliers too – in my opinion it’s you that help your birds win, not medication.

 

My 2008 results:

I started with 4 x 2yo that had not been raced out (399) miles as yearlings, intending these to go 570 miles. I dropped 3 long before that stage, and the remaining cock didn’t go, thanks to my own mismanagement of him (roadwork). My yearlings consisted mainly of late breds, unraced as YBs though lightly trained. They have had minimal racing as yearlings and they are still there for 2009. Main yearlings racing contingent, 9  birds, had racing experience as YBs, but not raced out (250) miles. I’ve 5 left, 2 out to 270 miles, and 3 timed in 2 x inland nationals, 330 & 399 miles, though not on the result. Although off-pace, that’s still 3 more than I got in inland Nationals previous 2 years, so it is an immense improvement. I’ve 12 OBs for 2009 and I am looking forward to racing them to 560 / 630 miles.

 

I raced 23 Natural YBs, and these have been raced out as far as their moult allowed, 100, 150, 180 and 250 miles. I was 2nd club and 12th Open at 180 miles. I had 4 at the YB National (250 miles) 2 in the clock 1st day,  1 on the SNFC result (no position, but she was also first bird in our club winning the club Cup). The other 2 arrived next morning (in race time). I’ve 17 left. I’m happy that they have been ‘raced out’ and looking forward to racing them as yearlings to 330, 399 and 445 miles in 2009.

 

So as I’ve remarked in other threads, I brought in new birds in 2007 and changed my methods in 2008 to ‘setting targets’ - racing my birds out to ‘X distance’. I obviously made mistakes, especially on motivation & roadwork, and I will work to correct these in 2009. My birds' condition attracted favourable comments from my club mates towards the end of both OB and YB seasons.

 

Medication is not about Racing, it is about Health. So 'I treated my birds with parastop and I won 2 races' is basically a load of crap, winning had sod-all to do with meds, and everything to do with how the birds were handled by the fancier, training, motivation etc. All performance improvements in my birds were down to me, and not medication, which I use only when prescribed by the vet.  And I have never had Paratyphoid, YBS or anything major in any of my birds - ever. My birds are currently on a 5-day course, having been diagnosed with ‘significant’ cocci counts, high enough that they should have the disease. But they don’t, in fact they are absolutely bouncing. The YBs took 4 cards at 2 of the clubs shows 2 weeks ago, including 2nd and 4th Handling Class, 106 birds in that class. According to the fate of some sick birds on other threads on this Site, birds with ‘coccidiosis’ usually die, and very quickly, they are certainly not expected to take Cards at Shows.

  

 

Thanks for the detailed answer, it suggests to me that you have the birds and probably the environment but they're not healthy enough to win but healthy enough to come home. But we shall see its very early days for you and I wish you the very best of luck over the next few years. At the end of the OB season let's come back to this, you've decided you know you had motivatioanl issues so you'll put them right on that basis they will e leading the pack.

The thing I can't agree with you is it's not about winner, that is the objective  :-/ I know no club that gives prizes because the birds came home. Policy?? Sorry buzzcocks , the policy for racing pigeons is to get them to home the fastest from a given location, not to ensure their master has an encyclopedic knowledge of policies. I've only ever met one person with such encyclopedic knowledge of all things she is also a B Sc  AND has common sense to and that's the misses, though perhaps she failed the last test by marrying me. And I've got to be honest most policy makers make it without having a clue what's really needed to meet the objective cause the common sense is lacking. Back in the mid nineties I project managed a document image / workflow project. IT policy group were determined to control it, they knew all the protocols, bandwidths, parent / child issues; they must not be breached infrastructure and technically everything would have been great, except of course the objective that DIP was being used for would never have been met cause for them IT was the b all thank god they didn't get their way!

[johnny11]

Hi Guys

 

Just to throw another side to this. If Vic had treated with baytril alone do you think his birds will look the same as they do now.

 

Question

 

How many strains of Salmonella are there? and How many can infect the pigeon?

Can someone explain to me how an injection against a bacteria not virus works?

 

Then ask yourself will an injection against a strain of Salmonella work against another strain?

 

If the answer is no... Then why dont we vaccinate against every strain the pigeon can get?

 

Im all for treating pigeons when they are sick, but with paratyphoid if you want to eradicate it there is only one outcome im afraid... If not I feel you will always have the same problems

[Guest]

No... you vaccinate against those with the greatest risk and what medical science has been able to develop. You do not often eradicate a virus by disposal. Take the flu virus, one of the  most common place to catch it from are door handles, not just from fellow beings, a virus is transmitted through the air not necessarily by contact. Bacteria is transmited by contact. But we are going now into the realms of science and I am more interested in practicality and how to safeguard the birds than debating the whys and wherefores of virus and bacteria

[Guest]

This Thread is really interesting i hope it keeps going

[DOVEScot]

One thing I have asked before and very little comment is; What does the fancier do with any dead infected bird, if they just put it in the bin then it ends up in landfill where scavengers roam and feed on infected birds. A bird or rodent could then pass on the infection and thus spreading the disease further.  :-/

I am lucky that I stay across from the paper mill and my mate is the manager and would let me dispose of any in the furnace, other than that what could or do you do with them

 

Another thing is what happens to the infected droppings :-/

[REDCHEQHEN]

One thing I have asked before and very little comment is; What does the fancier do with any dead infected bird, if they just put it in the bin then it ends up in landfill where scavengers roam and feed on infected birds. A bird or rodent could then pass on the infection and thus spreading the disease further.  :-/

I am lucky that I stay across from the paper mill and my mate is the manager and would let me dispose of any in the furnace, other than that what could or do you do with them

 

Another thing is what happens to the infected droppings :-/

 

With rats and mice being carriers in their own right - it doesn't really matter does it seeing as there are millions upon millions of them

 

Many human beings are carriers of salmonella

[Guest Vic]

One thing I have asked before and very little comment is; What does the fancier do with any dead infected bird, if they just put it in the bin then it ends up in landfill where scavengers roam and feed on infected birds. A bird or rodent could then pass on the infection and thus spreading the disease further.  :-/

I am lucky that I stay across from the paper mill and my mate is the manager and would let me dispose of any in the furnace, other than that what could or do you do with them

 

Another thing is what happens to the infected droppings :-/

  Although I have now became "accustomed" to doveys  replies, I really do think, more of his views lately, than in the past. But this one! lol. C'mon Dovey. You can do better than this Surely?    I will be  commenting on previous views during the course of this evening.  Because with being a one finger typist, nothing is more irriitable than to lose a really good  posting effort by the Woosh!  of an electronic phenomena. Be back later. Vic.  

 

 

[DOVEScot]

  Although I have now became "accustomed" to doveys  replies, I really do think, more of his views lately, than in the past. But this one! lol. C'mon Dovey. You can do better than this Surely?    I will be  commenting on previous views during the course of this evening.  Because with being a one finger typist, nothing is more irriitable than to lose a really good  posting effort by the Woosh!  of an electronic phenomena. Be back later. Vic.  

 

 

Cannae see anything wrong with what I posted, a reasonable question, if you just put dead paratyphoid infected bird in the bin are you adding to the problem of eradicating it :-/

Or are you just interested in eradicating it from your own loft :-/

[johnny11]

according to researchers at the University yes rats do carry salmonella but not the one that can infect pigeons as it is species specific for pigeons

 

John

[Guest IB]

Re DoveScot's points : Remember reading a letter in BHW a while back from an elderly fancier who misdiagnosed a paramyxo outbreak as paratyphoid.

 

DEFRA enforced special disposal of the droppings, and he had to pay extra for that service. So I would expect it is the same for any Notifiable disease.

[Guest Vic]

May, before I start, cogratulate Albear on this years successes. Was it on  Pigeon Paradise when we first crossed swords? I remember you had been through the mill,  regarding secretialship, culminating with auditing problems, in one of the biggest pigeon organisations in the UK. I think it was the Welsh North Road Combine/National, Whatever?                  

However! Right or Wrong?  I think you have left our Amateurish Theorist (IB) where he belongs. Plenty of guys in our sport  (Who have never been there) will take pleasure by  their lack of practical knowledge, by posing as experienced pigeon flyers.  Let's face, it they're not soft in any of the the theoretrical ways how and why, our birds should be treated. Sometimes I even think that our  meagre vetininary establishment, place grasses within us, to keep their own  pots full. This article may offend some, but it's not intentional. More Later.  Vic.        

[Guest IB]

Thanks for the detailed answer, it suggests to me that you have the birds and probably the environment but they're not healthy enough to win but healthy enough to come home. But we shall see its very early days for you and I wish you the very best of luck over the next few years. !

 

Thanks, much appreciated. You’ve perhaps overlooked that my losses have been nowhere as high as the norm elsewhere. So my birds must be healthier than most, at least they can actually get home, and in race time?

 

At the end of the OB season let's come back to this, you've decided you know you had motivational issues so you'll put them right on that basis they will e leading the pack.

 

Although you are talking about OBs, I noticed the biggest lift up the results sheet (in YBs) came from those birds that I had noted were acting ‘differently’. I had a young hen who always wanted into the OB end. So I let her in to see what she wanted. She took over a spare box, and bowl. I knew from the moult that I was only going to get only one more race from this bird. So I pooled her in the race - and won the money.

 

The other bird I did not take sufficient notice of what was going on. He wanted under my table, choice site for all the birds, and I let him, he started parading to a hen thro the section. Did that for a couple of days without thinking – he was 2nd club, 12th Open... and not a penny on him.

 

 

The thing I can't agree with you is it's not about winner, that is the objective  :-/ I know no club that gives prizes because the birds came home. Policy?? Sorry buzzcocks , the policy for racing pigeons is to get them to home the fastest from a given location, not to ensure their master has an encyclopedic knowledge of policies. I've only ever met one person with such encyclopedic knowledge of all things she is also a B Sc  AND has common sense to and that's the misses, though perhaps she failed the last test by marrying me. And I've got to be honest most policy makers make it without having a clue what's really needed to meet the objective cause the common sense is lacking. Back in the mid nineties I project managed a document image / workflow project. IT policy group were determined to control it, they knew all the protocols, bandwidths, parent / child issues; they must not be breached infrastructure and technically everything would have been great, except of course the objective that DIP was being used for would never have been met cause for them IT was the b all thank god they didn't get their way!

 

Think you’ve taken this way out of context. You inferred I had a theory. I merely pointed out that what I was saying was stated Policy in animal and human health medical circles. No single person has stopped it - it has been implemented throughout EU.