
Ian McKay
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Happy Birthday Ian have a nice one :drinking-coffee-200:
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Final Report On Young Bird Sickness (Ybs) In Pigeons
Ian McKay replied to Ian McKay's topic in Notice Board
Another addition :emoticon-0136-giggle: -
The Joe Murphy Column While at Blackpool show I met up with my dear friend Rob Glover of Nuneaton in the Midlands who has done well with a pigeon that I bred him as she has won 6th Ace pigeon in the Midland National Flying Club. This blue hen won 31st section 121st open MNFC Bordeaux 531 miles from an entry of 1500 birds. She also won 53rd open MNFC Ancenis 370 miles with 4500 birds competing and then she won 5th section 52nd open Bordeaux flying 531 miles in 2016. I have included a photograph of Rob and I while at Blackpool. Rob informed me that his club were holding a young bird sale in March and would I like to donate a youngster to this sale, which I did. Rob phoned me on Sunday past to say that my bird was the top priced bird in the Nuneaton club sale which was good news so I hope it does as well as the blue hen mentioned above. I have also enclosed a photograph of the late Eddie Newcombe of Malta who died recently. In the picture left to right is Eddie; Keith Cochrane, Joe Murphy, Dale Newcombe, Joe Newcombe and Kevin. The pigeon on the trap walking into the loft was our Sartilly Scottish National winner Mystical Rose. The third picture is of ‘Polo’ chequer pied cock raced by Bob Wilson of Strathmiglo in Fife. This cock won 26th section C 80th open SNFC Ypres, then 247th open from SNFC Eastbourne, 36th section C 96th open SNFC Clermont then 88th section C 357th open from SNFC Littlehampton and finally he won 36th section C 123rd open SNFC Ypres to win his SNFC Silver Award. My thanks to Jim Hannah for the photograph of Polo Rob Glover and Joe Murphy Newcombe Visit Polo Good SNFC Birds Received a letter from Dougie Barnes of Crossgates in Fife who wrote ‘Hi Joe I would like to say how much I enjoy your pages it the BHW. Also the ‘Joe’s Joke’ which I have told my step children with good effect and I would also like to say the good work you do covering the ‘Good SNFC Birds’ I see that covered one from Jim & Gary Peggie of Methil and I know of another good bird that races in the same club as the Peggie’s and hope you can give this gallant bird a mention in your column. I bred this bird and donated it to the Methilhaven breeder buyer sale in 2011. This was bought by Austin Whittaker and the positions of this hen are as follows; Chequer White flight SU11F 2286 bred from a grandson of ‘Kingdom Spirit’ Double SNFC Gold Award winner (10 times a winner from France for George & Brian Hunter of Dunfermline) back to the chequer hen 2286. From the Maidstone national in 2012 she won 297th open flying 374 miles from an entry of 3442 birds competed by 515 members. The following year she was sent to the Newbury national and won 28th section C 202nd open flying 339 miles with 560 members sending 3328 birds. Then in 2014 she was again sent to Maidstone and won 102nd section no open prize against 4484 birds submitted by 590 members. In 2015 she was entered for the SNFC Gold Cup from Alencon a distance of 551 miles and she won 126th open (no section prize) from an entry of 1416 birds entered by 400 members. Then last year 2016 she was again entered into the SNFC Gold Cup race this time from Reims and she won 19th section C 54th open flying 564 miles against 1330 birds contested by 355 members. May I wish you and Kevin all the best for the 2017 season (I spoke to him at the SHU show in Lanark) and I hope he does well again in the nationals, yours Dougie Barnes’. Staying in Fife we come to Sean Diamond of Kennoway who grew up a few doors from us when we lived in Seton Terrace. Sean and John Bradford were novices away back then and Sean has turned out to be a first class pigeon man. He has a chequer pied cock SU14F 3177 who as a baby won 35th section C from the Buckingham young bird national flying 302 miles. The following year he was entered into the Eastbourne national a distance of 401 miles and he won 29th section C 93rd open from an entry of 2494 birds. Then in 2016 he was entered into the SNFC Gold Cup race from Reims and won 22nd section C 76th open flying 566 miles from an entry of 1330 birds. We continue on this theme with a blue bar hen SU12S 351 raced by Jim Dalgliesh of Ecclefechan as a 2 year old she won 17th section A 55th open from Buckingham a distance of 231 miles flying against 2941birds. Then in 2015 she was again sent to the inland national this time from Billericay a distance of 284 miles and she won 10th section A 162nd open from an entry of 3395 birds. Last year 2016 she was entered into the Ypres race a distance of 388 miles and she won 11th section A 208th open. We wish the above fancier all the very best with their pigeons for the new season ahead. Scottish Sayings "Awa' an bile yer heid" This Scottish phrase is another one that needs a double-dose of translating! Simply putting it into English results in "Away and boil your head!" - Which probably won't help you much? What it means is something along the lines of 'Get lost!' or 'Forget it!' - And it's usually said to someone who is deemed to be talking rubbish, or wasting your time. Joe’s Joke Subject: The Lady and the Frog A beautiful woman goes to her local pet shop in search of an exotic pet. She notices a box full of frogs, with a sign that says: "SEX FROGS! Only £20 each! Complete instructions included." Intrigued, she grabs one of the frogs, goes up to the clerk at the front counter, and says "I'll take this one!" He smiles, packages the frog and says, "Just follow the instructions and enjoy yourself!†She nods, grabs the box, and rushes out the door. When she gets to her apartment, she opens the box and reads the instructions: 1. Take a shower. 2. Splash on some nice perfume. 3. Slip into a sexy nightie. 4. Get in bed with the frog beside you, and allow the frog to do what he has been trained to do! With mounting excitement she follows the instructions and lies in bed with the frog, breathlessly waiting. Nothing happens. She pokes the frog with her finger, he flinches a bit and croaks, but that is all...still nothing happens. Now she is quite upset and disappointed! She re-reads the instructions and notices a line at the bottom of the page: "If you have any problems or questions, please call the pet store, 555-3764." She calls the pet store. The clerk answers and says he'll be right over. Within minutes he is ringing her doorbell. She welcomes him in, and says, "I've done everything according to the instructions...but the damn frog just SITS there!" Looking very concerned, the man picks up the frog, stares directly into its eyes, and sternly says: "NOW PAY ATTENTION! I'm only going to show you how to do this just ONE...MORE...TIME! Please continue to keep the news flowing; to Joe Murphy Mystical Rose Cottage 2 Flutorum Avenue Thornton by Kirkcaldy KY1 4BD or phone 01592 770331 or Email to joejmurphy1@gmail.com REMEMBER THE J IN THE MIDDLE or log onto www.elimarpigeons.com www.fancierchat.co.uk and www.pigeon-chat.co.uk also www.pigeonbasics.com Pigeon Racing the Basics who wish my weekly contribution portfolio on pigeon topics from Scotland. © Compiled by Joe Murphy
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5-B/ .New outside sale rule as from 12 11 2014. Sales can be Advertised Free if only Name,Date, Time and Place are given, (no birds lists or ring numbers or links to other sites.)
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Happy Birthday Old Boy hope you are well :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:
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Happy Birthday Old Boy hope you are well :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:
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:smiling-scarecrow-329:
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The Joe Murphy Column My stock pair eggs have hatched except 2 pairs which is not too bad considering the moving them up to Kevin’s, as usual one of these pairs youngsters was going to a friend who will now receive babies from another stock pair. Some of the birds are now starting to lay their 2nd round of eggs which I will rear in my own loft. I normally spend the morning in the loft prior to our grandson Conner coming from nursery. He likes going out to the birds but to be honest I like to keep them as nice and calm as possible hence all the jobs are carried out in the morning. Helping Harvey I forwarded the pedigrees of the parents of my pair of pigeons towards the Helping Harvey’s sale which is on Elimar site, to Trevor Jenkin of Penzance. I will add a photograph of the parents of these young birds to this week’s column. The sire is known as ‘Bull Head’ bred by Sheldon Leonard of Arklow, he is from F & J Vandenheede bloodlines and he is a son of Mr Expensive a grandson of the legendary ‘New Freddy’. While his grand dam is the famed ‘Selina’ a big winner from De Rauw-Sablon: the dam of ‘Bull Head’ is ‘The Specialist’ again F & J Vandenheede bloodlines, she is bred from a father and daughter pairing Sire being ‘Limans’ mated to his own daughter ‘Beauty Limans’. The dam of the young birds is ‘Joe’s Girl’ again bred by my good friend Sheldon Leonard of Arklow from his F & J Vandenheede bloodlines her sire is ‘Real Jam’ a son of famous ‘Space Jam when mated to ‘My Sherona’ the No One breeding hen who contains the De Rauw-Sablon bloodlines. Dam of ‘Joe’s Girl’ is ‘Drongen Queen’ bred by Daniel Aerens she is a granddaughter of 1st Barcelona and 1st Perpignan containing the old Van Der Wegen line of Old Didi. I hope they make some good money for this charity sale. Trevor wrote to me saying he was overwhelmed by the kindness and generosity of people shown towards young Harvey. Pigeon Fanciers are the Salt of the Earth and Harvey's mum and dad are so very grateful to everyone for the kindness and compassion shown towards their son. Bull Head Joe's Girl Visitors from America We have had my old mate Jim and his sister Margo from America over for a short visit, their aunt died and they came over for the funeral which we both attended. They were brought up in Methilhill and moved to Kennoway while at primary school and lived opposite us in Langside Avenue. In fact Brian Chalmers who races his birds in Kennoway RPC now lives in their old house (small world indeed). We enjoyed a meal with them and some of their relations the day prior to returning to the Big Apple. It was good to catch up with each other (pity the circumstances) as we are now reaching the twilight of our years but have been pals for so long. This week’s Photographs The 2 blue bars are mentioned in Helping Harvey while the others were taken while at the Show of the Year at Blackpool the first is of a tankard that the editor of the Racing Pigeon Lee Fribbins showed me. A fancier handed this to Lee at the show saying they had seen this at a car boot sale. Maybe someone can help identify this tankard and put some light onto its history. Someone may have been presented with this for winning a race if anyone knows anything about this can the either contact me or the RP offices 01206 846456. Our next picture is of Billy Holland from the west of Scotland whom many people will remember tried the ‘Lemmon’ method when diagnosed with cancer. As you will see from the picture Billy is keeping in good health and is also very busy with his business. He is also a first class pigeon man and we wish him well during 2017. The next picture is of Craig Halbert of Eastriggs in the Solway, who has won 1st open SNFC longest old bird race from Ancenis these past 2 years with ‘Solwayview Queen’ and ‘Solwayview Boy’ we wish Craig all the best for the ‘treble’ in 2017. The Racing Pigeon Trophy Billy Holland Craig Halbert of Eastriggs Good SNFC Birds This week I cover a bird from the West the North and East section starting with the blue bar cock SU13L 8051 raced by Mr & Mrs Elliot of Newbigging. As a young bird he won 2nd section E but no open position flying 236 miles. Then as a 2 year old he won 1st section E 21st open from Clermont a distance of 505 miles then last year 2016 he won 70th section E from Buckingham a distance of 276 miles. We now come to a chequer cock SU13AB 1343 raced by A A Williamson of Aberdeen as a 2 year old he won twice from the Scottish national being 7th section G from Billericay a distance of 398 miles. He was then sent to Eastbourne (comeback race instead of Ypres) winning 10th section G flying 454 miles. Then in 2016 he competed from the Buckingham race a distance of 360 miles and he won 11th section G so 3 good positions in the first dozen of section G and we wish him well in obtaining another 2 inland diplomas to achieve his Bronze Award. We come to John F Bosworth of Elphinstone with blue bar hen SU13P 2809 as a 2 year old she won 83rd section B 161st open from inland national from Billericay a distance of 330 miles. Then last year she won 37th section B 120th open from the inland national from Buckingham flying 283 miles she was then sent to the last old bird race from Roye a distance of 491 miles and she won 8th section B 10th open from an entry of 1135 birds. Scottish Sayings "You're a wee scunner!" This was usually said with a touch of impatience, as a fair translation would be "You're a little whiner/nuisance". If I complained about being bored, or was being whiny and difficult, this was the response I'd get. Joe’s Joke Ever since I was a child, I've always had a fear of someone under my bed at night. So I went to a psychiatrist and told him: "I've got problems. Every time I go to bed I think there's somebody under it. I'm scared. I think I'm going crazy." "Just put yourself in my hands for one yearâ€, said the psychiatrist. ‘Come talk to me three times a week and we should be able to get rid of those fears." "How much do you charge? I asked" "One hundred fifty pounds per visit," replied the doctor. "I'll sleep on it," I said. Six months later the doctor met me in the street. "Why didn't you come to see me about those fears you were having?" He asked. "Well, £150 a visit, three times a week for a year, is £23,400 but the bartender cured me for £10. I was so happy to have saved all that money that I went and bought a new car." “Is that so?" With a bit of an attitude he said, "And how, may I ask, did a bartender cure you?" "He told me to cut the legs off the bed and nobody can get underneath it." It's always better to get a second opinion!!! Please continue to keep the news flowing; to Joe Murphy Mystical Rose Cottage 2 Flutorum Avenue Thornton by Kirkcaldy KY1 4BD or phone 01592 770331 or Email to joejmurphy1@gmail.com REMEMBER THE J IN THE MIDDLE or log onto www.elimarpigeons.com www.fancierchat.co.uk and www.pigeon-chat.co.uk also www.pigeonbasics.com who wish my weekly contribution portfolio on pigeon topics from Scotland. © Compiled by Joe Murphy
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Updated info on lot 10 :drinking-coffee-200:
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Mornin all :drinking-coffee-200:
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Less than 2hrs to go and some good birds going cheep :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:
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Just remember the DANDY DON's Have a nice day out Cheers Ian :drinking-coffee-200:
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Cawa The Dandy Dons :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:
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Happy Birthday guy's have a nice one :drinking-coffee-200:
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Wishing you well on you first return to the unit since Mary's passing I know it will be hard but you have a nice cheque to present on behalf of the members Remember and get a photo Ian
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The Joe Murphy Column Firstly, may I wish everyone who reads the column ‘A Happy St Patrick’s Day’ and I hope all my Irish friends have a ‘good day’. This past week has been quite frantic as our daughter phoned saying she had a nail in her car tyre and as it is a new car there is no jack. She arranged for a friend who owns a garage to come and take the wheel away to be repaired. However as she was working in Cupar (about 12 miles from her home) she therefore required a loan of my car to get to work. We also had to keep her son off nursery as we had no way of collecting him (no transport) so he spent the whole day with Margaret and I. Once the mechanic had repaired the car he was going to bring it down to me however he was also having a bad day and could not carry out this task. So I had to take a bus to my daughters and leave Conner with his dad then collect their car and head back to Thornton. We had previously made arrangements with Kevin to take the stock birds eggs up to him for rearing. As time was getting on Margaret came and assisted me wrap up the eggs and carefully place them in containers for transportation. Margaret placed then at her feet in the car and the heater put on. We managed to get these eggs under the race birds before retiring to the house for our evening meal. Kevin had also obtained 4 bags of pigeon feeding and some pic-stones for me so these were transferred to the car prior to our leaving. We arrived home about 22-30 having missed the Arsenal game on TV and when I heard the result on the news was quite shocked at the result, however I have to say Bayern Munich are a very good team and listening to the report they, deserved to go through. As I write this column I’m looking forward to the Barcelona verses PSG game tonight but Barca have a lot of work to do to rescue this tie. What a game!!!! We were on the edge of our seats right to the very end of the match and could not believe Barcelona scored with the last kick of the ball. Anyone who follows football will remember this game for the remainder of their lives, I know I will. New Zealand Visitor Last Friday we had brothers Godfrey and Ian Schmidt visit us. Ian comes from Te Awamutu in New Zealand while his brother Godfrey lives in Scotland. Ian emigrated in 1971 and is a pigeon fancier however Godfrey is has no knowledge of the birds but did inform me he visited New Zealand in 2012. Along with his 2 sons, they stayed in a hostel in Christchurch before touring the country prior to meeting up with Ian. Godfrey and the boys had taken in most of the sights within Christchurch and had pictures of some of the wonderful architecture. On the day they were leaving Christchurch the weather was not too good but they went on the cable car to view the scenery but could not see very much. On return they got in the car and heady north, as they were driving along the road they thought they had a puncture as the car moved from side to side. On getting out they checked and everything was ok so they returned to the car and continued on their journey. However when they arrived at their destination they discovered that Christchurch had been hit by an earthquake and the cable car they had been on earlier was severely damaged. One of the cathedrals that they had photographed a few days earlier was demolished and they could not get back to the hostel as the roads had large craters in them. All their belongings were forwarded to them in Scotland 6 months later including their passports. What an experience and Godfrey said, ‘We will never be as lucky again and will NEVER forget our trip to New Zealand. Back to pigeons now; Ian flies his pigeons from the south of the northern island and informed me that as soon as they cross into the south island the increase in costs is quite horrendous. He was a distance man and liked a few of my stock birds and complemented me on the condition my birds were in, which was very nice of him. Margaret made coffee and we enjoyed chatting away about pigeons and Ian told me that they had been to the lofts at the ‘Raploch’ area in Stirling and also visited Rab Hamilton in Cambus. Unfortunately Ian was returning home today Wednesday 8th March and I hope he had a safe journey. I have included a picture of us both for the column. He said his mates in New Zealand who get the BHW or RP would not believe his picture was in my column. It was very nice to meet Ian & Godfrey and may I wish them all the best for the future. Ian Schmidt and Joe Murphy Good SNFC Birds This week I report on 2 Fife pigeons with the first of these being Jock Brockie of Lochgelly club chequer white flight cock SU13F 5175. As a yearling in 2014 he won twice from inland old bird nationals with the first being from Buckingham a distance of 303 miles were he won 9th section C 49th open he was then set up for the Maidstone race a distance of 378 miles and he was again to the fore being 6th section C 27th open. I don’t see his number in the 2015 season results but he was on the Buckingham result in 2016 were he won 93rd section C 347th open. Our second pigeon belongs to Jimmy Mackie of Leven with chequer pied cock SU13F 4072 as a 2 year old in 2015 he won 9th section C 37th open from Billericay a distance of 347 miles, he then went to Portsmouth a distance of 378 miles and won 18th section C 85th open and then last year he won from Littlehampton a distance of 386 miles being 65th section C 230th open. We now move to section D near Stirling to the loft of Rab W Hamilton of Cambus whose blue bar cock SU14NW 1121 won twice in 2016 he excelled as a yearling winning 1st section D 21st open from the Portsmouth race flying 383 miles, then in 2016 he won 24th section D 200th open from Littlehampton a distance of 392 miles. He was then set up for the Ypres race a distance of 458 miles to his loft and he won 12th section D 111th open. Three very good pigeons that their owners will be very proud of and they will be looking to improve on the above performances in 2017. We wish them all the very best for the new season. Scottish sayings My grandson Liam had some homework to do and asked his Gran if she would help him as he was to get old Scottish Sayings. Margaret and I had a good laugh as we grew up hearing these said on a daily basis but poor Liam did not have a clue to what we were talking about. I thought these might be a bit of fun for the column, see what you think???? "Whit's fur ye'll no go past ye" This one basically means 'whatever is meant to happen to you, will happen to you"! It's the Scottish phrase of whenever you moan or complain about not getting something (or someone!). Cambusnethan & Morningside members Members with 'Scottish Champ' Billy Bilsland Sign Says it All Joe’s Joke Doug Smith is on his deathbed and knows the end is near. His nurse, his wife, his daughter and 2 sons are with him. He asks for 2 witnesses to be present and a camcorder to be in place to record his last wishes. When all is ready he begins to speak: "My son, Bernie, I want you to take the Mayfair houses. "My daughter Sybil, you take the apartments over in the east end." "My son, Jamie, I want you to take the offices over in the City Centre. "Sarah, my dear wife, please take all the residential buildings on the banks of the river." The nurse and witnesses are blown away as they did not realize his extensive holdings, and as Doug slips away, the nurse says, "Mrs. Smith, your husband must have been such a hard-working man to have accumulated all this property". The wife replies, "The old fool had a paper round." Please continue to keep the news flowing; to Joe Murphy Mystical Rose Cottage 2 Flutorum Avenue Thornton by Kirkcaldy KY1 4BD or phone 01592 770331 or Email to joejmurphy1@gmail.com REMEMBER THE J IN THE MIDDLE or log onto www.elimarpigeons.com www.fancierchat.co.uk and www.pigeon-chat.co.uk also www.pigeonbasics.com who wish my weekly contribution portfolio on pigeon topics from Scotland. © Compiled by Joe Murphy
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Brilliant Lindsay :drinking-coffee-200: :drinking-coffee-200:
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Final Report On Young Bird Sickness (Ybs) In Pigeons
Ian McKay replied to Ian McKay's topic in Notice Board
Below are the fanciers who have opted to disclose the use of permitherin for the 2017 season all have purchased it and will follow the instructions to the letter I am still open to trialists if you wish to join in as the more I have will give us a better idea if I am on the right track This will be the biggest test of the survey results and might give a huge clue if it is helping I will not ask for a report from any of them till late August / September by which time they will know the results If they wish to disclose there findings as they go along I have no objections to this I think this brings the survey results out in the open for all to see I wish them all the best for 2017 Trialists 2017 Name Site name Jim Coutts & son Jumbo Stuart Lammie jast Andy Burgess andy Burgess Derek Hay Delboy Ronnie Wilson abc Colin Grieve eastcoaster Alex Dixon Clifton lad Sammy Stewart sammy Andy Graham Darnaway Neil Christie Gates Billy Graham Billy g Davy Hay big blue bar Lindsay Charters Greenlands David Broxup (Wakfield) Lewis McCalley Rooster J. Cogburn Cowan & Findlay Chanter John Baille jbee -
Survey Report on young bird sickness (YBs) in pigeons Introduction: The reason for the survey is I have 2 subjects who have never knowingly had YBs and thought that was a good starting point. The products I have asked about are all used by these 2 people with some red herrings thrown in. It is not about finding out what you use, it's about finding out which products these 2 guys use that appear to be helping them avoid YBs, and, if this is the case, after 4/5yrs with no YBs I don't think it is luck. I hope this gives you an insight into what I am trying to do. Will it help? I do not know but it is interesting, I have two other people who have answered and are amazingly close to what these 2 guys use and they also have NOT had YBs. Method of returns: 2 Pigeon Forum Sites: Pigeon Basics Pigeon Chat Plus some direct by E-mail Findings: Some people are not willing to give answers but I assured them it would be confidential. A lot of people use products even though they admitted they did not work. I was quite shocked to find the amount of antibiotics and non approved vaccinations being used. Conclusions Based on Data: 133 fanciers had YBs (76%) 17 of this group used Permitherin (12.78%) 42 fanciers did not have YBs (24%) 13 of this group used Permitherin (30.95%) On further investigation of the fanciers who had YBs and used Permitherin, it was established that most used it incorrectly. Other products that faired well were Egg Food and Hormoform see Chart It appears that an insect may be the probable cause of this problem. Whether the birds eat the eggs/larva or get bitten is inconclusive by this survey. It is not a Virus as all birds that mix in training vehicles / crates would be affected (as advised by the experts) Recommendations: The use of an insecticide like Permitherin or a substitute would be beneficial. It is important to clean the loft and saturate it to eliminate insects with a regular spray to help eliminate the problem in the future. A water based product is more cost effective and beneficial to our birds. Aerosol sprays cannot saturate the loft properly and are expensive and ineffective. Immediate Recommendations: Start with your YB loft / section saturate it before you put your youngsters in, giving your birds as much protection as possible. Future research is needed: It may be that fanciers do not realize there birds have a problem until they start training or racing then it hits them with poor returns. This may explain why we have such losses in some races and why Federation / Club birdages plummet soon after racing starts especially in the young bird season. I have at least 4 fanciers who have had what they believe to be YBs and have decided to trial a Permitherin type product for 2017. They will follow the instructions to the letter to see if it helps them in 2017. The results will not be known until approx September 2017 Should you wish to know more or ask any questions I am on Pigeon Basics or Tel: 01224 741028 Ian McKay “Kingslea†Kingswells Aberdeen AB15 8SL Ph 01224 741028 E-mail ian.mckay@btinternet.com
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Yes Austin I forgot Breeder Buyers are allowed Good luck Ian
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Happy Birthday guy's hope you have a nice one :drinking-coffee-200: 58 nae wonder you struggled to keep up we us at Blackpool :emoticon-0136-giggle:
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Final Report On Young Bird Sickness (Ybs) In Pigeons
Ian McKay replied to Ian McKay's topic in Notice Board
Now for a full report from WHO follow this link (World Health Organisation) This is for the real enthusiast Happy reading give yourself plenty of time http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc94.htm#SubSectionNumber:1.1.1