Hi Jimmy i maybe wrong,but i know that when i looked further back in a marcellis pedigree at blackpool it had Hubens right back in the pedigree ,and a guy there only had marcellis pigeons and he was speaking about them!But thanks jimmy u maybe correct,i can only type what i have seen or heard,but ill ave to do some more diving into the strain to find out some more info if i find anything ill send it to ya mate,But i know for certain my wringer cock direct son of the wringer that if you go back 3 generations there is houbens in the blood,and that goes back to 82.However in the pedigree of a blue cock on here its down as a marcellis,and the info says it has all the best janseen bloodlines and is a pigeon albert brang in,So the post above i must have done a mistake!So as far as i know jimmy they are houbens and janseens but you maybe right mate