Can't agree on that one with you Roland, removing ETS rings, that's some one's property, even rubbers, if you want for what ever reason to show someone that they have dropped into a loft, a piece of tape around a ring would be enough. You're obviously working on the theory that birds that drop into other lofts are no good and birds that starve or are cat or fox food are the better ones, Can't agree with you on that one