swilcox

Australia and America have some very long races, i also heard of a very long race into Eastern Europe. But for me if you can get pigeons into both Scotland and Ireland at 800 plus miles there isnt a harder test anywhere. Stuart

Rather than rumble on and hijacking another thread i thought it would be interesting to ask this question. Do you think its better to buy off a pigeon fancier who races and produces results or off a stud who does not race and collects well bred birds of certain strains and trends. I have flown pigeon for nearly 30 years since i was 6. for my first few years my dad and i would buy pigeons that were easily available, from studs and the like. Most were rubbish until i purchased a pair from Haywood Lofts (mr & mrs Kozack) i think. I call him and told him of the combine winner i had bred and he said well that does suprise me the father of the hen won this for me and the brother etc etc. I then changed tack and started buying from proven fanciers with real results and i must admit ive had stronger stock ever since. When myself and Raymond started to look at having a stud (and i hate the word stud) we both agreed that racing must be our priority and even though we both have moved house we have got the birds on the road and it really has tought us alot about our birds and we had a few suprises at just what turned out to be the best breeders. I now believe it imparative that a seller tries and tests his own lines every year before offering them to others. Views welcome

I agree with you Joe61 except for the last bit, A non fancier could never maintain a winning family because to do that you need the BASKET and RESULTS and not paperwork. Pedigrees and strain names are ok as a guide when you are first bringing pigeons in but once they can fly the BASKET is king.

Hi Black WF I know mate and i knew you were not saying that i just wanted to lend my support behind the Newmain club, venue and the lads. I dont think anyone will feel you have stated anything other than that. This lad sounds a toe rag for sure. All the Best Stuart

Joe61 I think whats being said that he actually labels them in the pens as Show/Delbars, if thats the case he isnt coning anyone. This isnt the first time ive seen Delbars used in this way, why Delbars arnt they real good race pigeons (Roberts and co) why do they always seem to get mixed with show racers?? Can i also ask another question and on this subject i have no experience, can show racers race???? Stu

I think that if he has labelled them show/delbar then he is doing nothing wrong???? However i dont think they would race very well. This is just my view but often people say its up to the buyer to do there research but i dont quite go with that one. I believe ( foremost as a pigeon fancier) i owe it to my fellow pigeons fanciers to do my best when supplying pigeon, as we have seen on a related post you can still get it wrong. I put myself in the place of the buyer and imagine what i would like to buy and what i would think is value. I turn that around using that rule and i offer what i offer with confidence. And the money i make goes to buying better pigeons, lofts, food etc so hopefully i can gain an advantage by helping others and in the end helping myself. I have said it 100 times you should source pigeons off people who race and test there pigeons every saturday every year.

MJB, guees who got the nestmate ;D Good old Harm and Chantel

This isnt a good situation for anyone. I would like to add that we had an Auction in Newmains last year and we were treated very well by everyone that we met and who purchased our birds and i wouldnt hesitate to return there next season (thats the plan ). Im sure this guy was from out of town as the lanarkshire lads seem a sound bunch to me. Stuart

John is the best by far and he knows pigeons all to well so they are in safe hands. Stuart

I dont think he is a top player but i may be wrong

Bert Hession, probally the best master breeder of short/middle distance pigeons in england.

I know it was the most ever paid, to a Japanese Business man callled Yokahama i think.

Sorry i didnt mean Ponderosa, i think they supply good honest pigeons and have a good reputation. I was refering to the The Dutch Guy and his father in law.

Paulo, remind me in March and i will see what i can do.

Our best would be the same as there best, Supreme Champions are exactly that!!!!

Just to add if you asked Raymond which was are best racer at present from the Jan Aarden birds he will tell you its a Blue Hen that is in my loft, she has scored 2nd Combine lessay, 4th Combine Hastings, 4th Tours etc and she will be two year old this year, Raymond is thrilled that she can win over the channel (Ocean) as he calls it as he believes this is an excellent test and can only strenghten his colony of distance pigeons. Stuart

There are good pigeons in every loft in every country, its quality of competition and fancier that brings the best to the top, the better the competition the higher quality the winner. In Holland they have maybe 5000 fanciers that play purely on long distance and maybe 10-15 550 - 800 miles races a season with birdage at Bergerac in the high 40,000b, so the champions will have to work to earn that title. Saying all that are they better no probaly not, on a par, yes i would say so. Stuart

There racing structure is so much simplier in Belguim and Holland if you are crowned the Ace Fancier then that is what you are, they all compete against each other and thats why there champions are so well promoted. No matter what you say Brian Shepard cant win the MNFC because he isnt in the boundry, you cant tell me he couldnt? And for me that de-values the MNFC as an organisation that provides National Racing even though its so bloody tough to win it. If you were looking over from China and you asked who was the best fancier in England in 2008 you would get 50 different names, In holland you would get 4 Sprint, middle, distance and young bird and there would be no arguement!!!!!!!!! We have a bigger country yes but there are systems where we could incorperate results and fly for a National Championship and then we would have a smaller number of Champions that we could all reconise. I go back to my Partner Raymond Moleveld, he won 1st Natioanl (All Holland) from 37,239 birds on a weekend when only one liberation was permitted by The NPO. If you wanted to fly send to that race and the winner will be a true champion, ie beaton by no one. Lets Take Saintes, Tours of Bordeaux, we could very easily have a 35,000b liberation from there and we would not need any spin of that little feathered wonder. Stuart

The most important aspect of buying any pigeons is results, both of the dutch breeders mentioned have none as they are none fanciers!! They are breeding pigeons of colour and type purely to sell and if you check there pedigrees they buy low value stock and sale at a competative price. They i believe cross some pigeons with Show Pigeons to enhance there beauty but again i dont think they hide this (seen it on another thread). Nowt wrong with that, if people CHOOSE to invest in there stock then thats there choice. The birth place of Grizzle Van Loons is Aad Van Berkel of Rotterdam, they came from a cheq Van Loon Rominger and a Grizzle Hen 817 who was 50 % Van Loon 50% Tournier, this pair bred Silver Shadow, Silver Shadow 2, Silver Boy Silver Star, Silverman etc and this is the only line there is. In Van Loons loft you will only find Blue and Cheq. Most of the birds on Elimar have very very little Silver Shadow Van Loon in them, they have been paired to other grizzles lines to maintain the colour purely for the purpose of selling and not a result in sight. Stuart

Yes they are £50 each

Sapper i will have a chat with Raymond for you!!

Sapper i will put it on tomorrow, may take a bit of writing and im on a date tonight with a bird who has Silicone Boobs so i better have a shower

Roland i would never sue you old pal but some posts were removed that were just out and out personnels attacks and slander from another member.

I dont think the virus was every nailed down, as in most viruses they spread quick and once they moved on they are gone. The Government diagnosed the Virus as Circo Virus but i believe this is a mix of differnent viruses so i dont no what to make of that. What i do know is the Circo Virus is widley associated with YBS hence my earlier post. Due to its difficultness to identify the pigeons were not allowed out until the virus took its course. All pigeons were given a general screening every week for 60 days and once they were found to be clear and healthy the government allowed them out. Any birds found unclear in that time were removed. Whether or not any perminent damage was caused would have hopefully been highlighted by the training and race program out to 350km and such week pigeons fell by the wayside. But if you read what is being written you will see that if any of the birds contracted the virus they were removed so the chances are these birds that are left never even seen the virus. I spoke at length to Derek Nichols on this subject and he tells me illness is just part of one loft racing and that the pigeons that conqeur desease, mass tarining and the races are the strong ones and that he believe these pigeons are sound and no different to any others pigeons offered from a one loft race. I will add that the Dutch Open wrongly or rightly Choose to involve the Government as they wanted to establish the correct treatment as normal pigeon medicine didnt effect it, they have never hidden from the events that happen during the first few months. Of the 400 ybs that returned from the final race the first 200 were sold on internet, that the way the race was planned from the start. The pigeons that finish 200 to 400 were available for collection only for 3 weeks after the race. As in previous years only a handful were collected, and a small number was donated to Youth Projects, the remander were left in the loft. Most of these birds have now been snapped up in Holland and UK. I took it apon myself to offer these pigeons as i constantly here from PB members that pigeons are too expensive, i heard about them and believed that if i didnt offer them on here i wouldnt be true to my word, which is to support PB. I stand by my decision even though in hinsight i could have done with out the hassle but i believe a few pb members will recieve some high quality pigeons that have been bred by some of the best fanciers in holland for an attrative price, i havnt benifitted out of this finacially however hopefully someone will do well with these birds. This is my last post on this subject

Wiley we are all but sold out of our short distance lines only about 40 or so left and not so many hens.