holmsidelofts

Sorry i cant agree with that the immune system doesnt differentiate between whats the carrier state or whats the vaccine, they are one of the same thing the immune system is designed to attack all foreign antibodies, it wont stop attacking one to attack another. you are right what you are saying about the 10 day treatment, but that only helps strengthen the action of the vaccine by allowing the vaccine to do its job of stimulating the immune system to produce the antibodies required. thats why some dead vaccines dont work the first time around, there isnt enough stimulus from the vaccine to get the immune system to produce the antibodies required, thats why its recommended to vaccinate twice with any dead vaccine. Live vaccine is different as it contains live cultures of the disease you are fighting all be it in a very weakened state. that weakened state stimulate the immune system better the first time than the dead vaccine does. thus only requiring you to do it once a year. I totally agree that no vaccine offers 100% protection against diseases, but 90+% is better than 0 % if you dont vaccinate. jas.

They will probably be in there for 3 - 4 rounds then will be put in an aviary for the rest of the season. I dont see any disadvantage with it they have plenty of room to spread there wings. time will tell though. jas

Hi stb. Thats everybody's dream to have that in there loft, We can only hope that one day we too can have winners like that. I have to say as well the ronnie williamson ventilation system is second to none, It was the best thing i could have done to my lofts, its transformed them airflow wise. Will be the first season racing from them this year. I cant wait. Jas.

What we are using for drinkers are the plastic milk cartons you see in one of the pics, we have been saving them for weeks and have about 50 of them now. the plan is to throw them away every week and have a new one. This will help to keep any diseases down. we have also been saving margarine tubs for holding corn and large yoghurt pots for grit and minerals. Its all about recycling and using disposable equipment. use them throw them away. Jas.

Hi josh. Yeah thats the pics i was looking for originally, I have done my pens know based upon ronnies design. Theses are mine. On these pics they were not yet finished but they are looking the business and im hoping to get the cocks in there tomorrow so they can settle down ready for breeding. jas.

maybe fine for the usa as there weather is a lot dryer than ours, i personally wouldnd use them but if you are short on space why not.

Sorry ib wrong again. you cannot identify bacteria type by looking under a microscope. all you can tell is if bacteria is present, you cannot identify it thats fact. you can only identify it by the means of a culture grown in a lab thats the only way to identify it. So again my friend you are wrong.

Spot on dwh. For others to say that street pigeons look well i think they need a trip to spec savers. Every street pigeon i have ever seen have looked awful and i would probably guess they dont live that long either.

Sorry ib you are wrong. vaccine cannot cause the disease. even with live vaccines the bacteria are weakened to a state where that isnt possible. Again refer to the article by wim peters in the bhw it explains that. to answer your last question no you wouldnt expect to find any as the the birds are not shedding the bacteria from the vaccine in the first place. i would suggest you start reading articles written by the experts and get the correct info before coming on to a forum giving information that has no fact.

Sorry to hear that dave. As you already know this disease devastates lofts very quickly. and you are right about that article to. Also a test was carried out with droppings that were removed from race panniers after the birds were released for a race and 80% of those droppings tested positive to salmonella. If people want to take the chance and do nothing thats up to them but as dave can tell you when you get its is soul destroying, and it can wipe you out. I have £1000's of pounds worth of birds most of which you couldnt breed there like of again so i will listen to the experts like wim peters, colin walker and my 2 pigeon specialist vets that i deal with and will continue to vaccinate as i have done for a few years now. I will be changing things slightly this year. the plan is to use the columbovac vaccine which is the dead one first, then give the live one a few weeks later. As stated in wim peters article. he is not the only pigeon vet to suggest this but quiet a few others have said the same also. The question is would you not vaccinate your children just because of hear say?

there is no once in a life time jab, its a once a year jab because its a live vaccine, the columbovac one has to be done twice as its a dead vaccine.

Read the article by wim peters in this weeks bhw and you will realise why that is. All dead vaccines have to be done twice not once as stated by most manufacturers. If a product hadnt past tests it wouldnt be given a license.

what a load of crap

Most vacines are powder with a liquid carrier base that you mix together to activate. I use the chevita live vaccine. Theres an interesting article by Dr WiM Peters in the bhw this week about vaccination. especially when he talks about all dead vaccines having to be done twice not the single shot that we all thought, that includes the PMV vaccine. Interesting read. jas

It aint just that mate its more than that. Fantastic ventilation ( i know i have put in on my lofts and what a difference to air flow), excellent management also. quality pigeons alone dont give you those results. In my opinion hes the one of the greatest pigeon fanciers in the world. jas.

Hens tend to suffer with internal fat that you dont really see, thats why its important to get them on barley for a week or 2 before pairing, remember that the birds aint doing anything this time of the year and we are feeding them heavy for the moult so they will hold a little fat. I also think that when you get empty eggs this time of the year its one of the following, If one egg is full i would bet the first one got chilled between being laid and the birds sitting when the second one laid. If both are empty it could due to the cold as it effects the cocks testicles and in the off season they also shrink so you have to bring them into breeding condition by first getting them on barley then start to increase the good corn and increase the daylight this will stimulate the cock into breeding condition and get him sexual active again. I really dont believe that if a hen doesnt lay for a long length of time its the cold. I would always say they are fat and not in breeding condition yet. I have seen fanciers with open fronted lofts with snow blowing in on the perches and they still lay no issues. Jas.

Frank are you aware that once the bottle is opened it has a shelf life of 28 days, it breaks down once exposed to air. using it after that you will be give a product that is either well below what it supposed to be or could even be useless. Baytril is one of the only products i know that reacts this way. thats why there is no point in buying it in a big bottle. This advice came from 2 of the top pigeon vets in the country.

hen

In my club the hanbury arms in pontypool it pains me to say it but my good friend dan pipe. had a cracking season last year, we are all looking forward to whipping his but this year. Look out danny boy we are coming for you, lol.

For me it has to as close to the winners as possible. Pedigrees are important to a degree as long as they are accurate as they give you an ideas of how far away from winning genes you are. theres no point in buying birds where the last winners were there great, great grand parents. you see that regularly, the further away you are the lest chance you have of your bird carrying the required genes. there is no real way to tell a winner or breeder other than breeding or racing from it. When i handle a bird what i look for is balance, the bird has to sit in the hand well. its tail should be a natural extension of its body, it shouldnt stick up in the air or point to the floor. that the only thing i could say. every winner i have ever handled has been well balanced ive never handled a winner that wasnt well balanced. I dont believe in theories like eye theory etc, in my opinion its a load rubbish the basket is the only indicator. I would also be more inclined to buy from someone who races in a similar area to me, remember birds are bred to race in certain conditions and are selected on this. So just because a fancier in holland is successful there is no guarantee that his birds will win over here. remember holland for instance very flat, us very mountainous it all plays a part. I would always buy from an entire clearance sale and by the winners or breeders of winners. that way you have more chance of reproducing winners.

the lack of uk fancier sales. to many dutch and belgium sales for my liking. Jas

wow, you have a very nice selection of different breed. never seen some of them before. Jas

Sorry Ib you need to get your facts right. first up you say i only give one side of the argument whats the point of repeating what you have already said. you say someone has a suspected case after treatment, you have no proof in that. until its confirmed by a lab all you are doing is spreading info thats in accurate. I would go along with the experts everytime and the majority not the minority most of the top pigeon vets all say the same regarding treatment. i could put up loads of articles written by the experts but all i would be doing is repeating what i have already said. regarding the article you listed again whats the point of putting it back up when its available on another thead. I not here to argue with you and i have no intentions of doing that. The only way for josh to be sure is to send droppings off to a lab for the test. that way he can be 110% sure if treatment is required. Jas.

I agree with IB it has to be your decision. there are plenty of top vets, dr colin walker, wim peters, johan van der cruyssen, dr zsolts talaber, dr pascal lanneau, dr gordon chalmers just to name a few who have written very good articles on salmonella, and its treatments. These are the people you need to take advice from they are the experts in there field. My advice would be spend £40 get the salmonella test done, then if you havent got it leave things alone. if you do have it you have no alternative but to treat but not with parastop. use the correct product for the job. Jas

yeah i know the dilemma you went through. I had a widowhood cock back in 1993 that was winning extremely well had a few 1st,2nd and 3rd in club we entered him into the north road newton grange open. he took 1st club, 1st fed, 1st open, 1st combine, in absolutely terrible conditions it had been raining all day. the race was a 300 mile race and what i remember there were very few birds home on the day. he was streets ahead of the 2nd place bird, the following week he again one 1st club and we made the decision to stop him and put him to stock. 2 weeks later he developed a lump in his throat. my first reaction was to get him seen by the vet. it was a growth and needed to be removed. I took the decision to have him operated on to remove the lump and he died on the operating table. What i should have done is got a shedfull out of him first, so we all make decisions that we are not comfortable with.