holmsidelofts

That in my opinion was when louella had birds worth buying, some fantastic champions there, class pigeons.

Not sure if he still is the most expensive, didnt jos thone sell avril for more than invincible spirit i may be wrong but it just sticks in my head.

In my opinion its not about the cost its about the origin, the integrity of the fancier you are buying them off and what that bird or its family have done. The first factor for me is the fancier himself, do i know him or her, if not i will do research on them, what have they done racing, where are they situated ( just because they win lots dont always mean much if they are on line of flight and have perfect loft position, I would rather go to someone who doesnt win as much but are in a worse location.). The other thing is i want to know exactly how many breeding pairs he has and how many of these pairs are breeding winners ( most of the time you will find only a couple of the breeders are constantly producing winners, Leave these fanciers alone as you will more than likely get birds out of the ones that are not winning, i've seen this so many times). What i would look at also is how far are the birds you are buying are from the actual winners. one of things you see all the time in the BHW is birds for sale and the owners spout sires, grandsires, great grandsires results but you do see anything for what the bird you are buying has done, I would go for proven racers over birds bred for stock, you see it all the time on pedigrees where you see sires and dams that were bred for stock, and sometimes its the grandparents and great grandparents that were the winners. The further away from the actual winners the less chance you have of reproducing that winning line. remember this if the bird you are buying has non proven parents and its the grandparents that have won, by the time you rear from it you are another generation away again. so your youngsters would be great grandsons / daughters of the original winning birds. So to me its not about money its about a lot of factors, If all the factors i look for was right and the bird i wanted was a £1000 i would have no issue paying that. Its all in the research you do and dont be fooled into buying a bird based upon an name just because its a particular strain means nothing. Thats just my views. Jas.

We must all be bored stiff tonight. with nothing to talk about, sorry people but theres nothing that a eye will tell you other than vitality, if a birds ill you will normally see an eye go pale other than that nothing else. jas.

Correct lindsay. but what you have to remember is baytril is not just used in pigeons but in most animals as a broad spectrum antibiotic so it wouldnt take long for it to be used. I was told this by one of the top pigeon vets in the uk. Jas.

Hi strapper. Only the powder form of emtryl has been taken off the market, tablet form is readily available from a vet and i get emtryl from graham smith to. I really like the tablets from chevita for worms and if i have need to use them they have always been 100% effective 1st time. never requiring a repeat treatment.

Your right oldyellow. According to Dr colin walkers book this is where the birds should be at at different sages: Stage 1 28-32 days old. 28 days at the latest removed from the parents. 31 days responding to fanciers voice. Stage 2 33 - 49 days old. by 33 days the youngsters should realise that there loft is there home. 38 days a routine should be established, they should also start flying by this point. 46 days should be flying in a flock for upto 20 -30 minutes Stage 3 50 - 60 days old. youngsters should behaving like young adults. in all ways except sexually. 50 days natural youngsters will drop there first flight. Stage 4 60 - 100 days puberty starts. Stage 5 100 days training tosses should start. So based upon the above estimations if they are hatched on january 1st by april the 1st they should be trained. The question is how many people actually train there youngsters in april. most of us are still training our old birds at that point. So i totally agree with oldyellow in that they have to be educated early if they are born early. that is probably why 2nd round youngsters are better as they are born later but trained younger. also they dont reach sexual maturity early on in the year and are more ready to exercise freely, we all know what happens once cocks start to drive there exercising starts to drop as there mind is on getting that hen to nest. Food for thought that. Jas.

Also to add, if i need to treat i would use the following: Worms - chevita ascapilla + ( one capsules treats all forms of worms, very effective, i wouldnt use anything else). Cocci - Baycox for 3 days ( only available from vets but very effective and can be used throughout the season without effecting form if the birds get re infested). Canker - i use emtryl tablets again from the vet, very effective ronidizole is also very good. I try to use tablets/caps where possible as you can be accurate with the dose, you know the bird has taken it ( some birds will go for days not drinking if they detect things in the water, and in hot weather they can tend to drink to much. If respiratory treatment is require which it never is these days for us i would use doxycyline again available from a vet. Even though i do all my testing myself and have a very good knowledge on pigeon health you must have access to a good pigeon vet, who knows what your knowledge is who can provide you with the treatment if you require it. I have access to 2 top pigeon vets. Just one point on antibiotics. Some times you have no choice but to administer them when a bird becomes ill. Antibiotics will only fight bacteria, they are useless against virus's but are prescribed when a virus is present to prevent other bacterial diseases taking hold when the birds immune system is down, the same as your doctor my give you antibiotics if you have a viral infection its not to fight the virus but to keep the other diseases at bay. One of the most powerful antibiotics on the market is baytril and i often hear of fanciers who use this regularly as a preventative. It should never be used in this context as its a broad spectrum antibiotic which kills not only bad bacteria but also good bacteria as well. Also never buy it from anywhere other than a vet as there is a shelf life of 28 days on it once opened. If you use it after that its not effective anymore, so if you buy it from others and the bottles been open longer than that you are wasting your money and time, thats why you should never buy any more than is need and always go to a vet, you know that you are getting the correct product at the right strength. Also never use products designed for other animals, its dangerous to the birds and there is no need as there a plenty of excellent pigeon medication thats designed for our birds. Hope this helps. Jas.

If im honest i would always test first before putting them together. you need birds in top health to produce the best youngsters and that starts in the egg and all the way through to weaning. Birds may look healthy enough but you just cant tell by looking at them that they are free of disease. What you rear now will be with you for potentially the next 5 years. get it right at the start and you've done all you can then its up to the birds. Jas.

Totally agree, if you dont own a microscope get them test first, no pint in treating for something you dont have. firstly its a waste of you money, and secondly blind treatment should be avoided as the diseases will build a immunity to the product you use if you abuse it and then it wont be effective anymore.

Watch yourself paul they will be after your head next, lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. By the way men can multitask we can watch tv and drink beer at the same time so thats another myth busted.

Love it mick good post.

Yeah your right, they get you into microscope use at a very cheap price, you are restricted at what you can do with them, but once you get hooked on microscope use like some of us you will go on to get a better quality one with more features. but for the price they are very useful. cost the same as an average droppings test from a qualified vet. once you get use to using one it opens up a whole new world of understanding on how to keep pigeons healthy and what your management is like. good luck with the use. If you need any questions answered then just drop me a pm and i'll do my best to answer them. jas

Thats a lot of questions and not that simple to answer in one go. below is some photos i have taken with my microscope, these are going to be part of an instructional dvd im putting together on microscope use. they will hopefully explain some of the questions you asked. Hi mate. I have been using a microscope now for a couple of years and have had the pleasure of studying with one of the top pigeon vets in the uk. below are some images i have taken from my microscope over the years, hopefully these will try and give you an idea of what you are looking at. There are 2 ways to examine dropping samples under a microscope: 1st is the smear method, by smearing the sample on to the slide and adding a small amount of water to it then add the cover slip, this method is more difficult to read for a beginner as you will have all the waste food and proteins etc to look through. 2nd and my preferred method is to float the sample in a heavy salt solution for 20 minutes, this cause the debris to fall to the bottom and the eggs rise to the top. These samples are 100x magnification ( 10x objective lens with a 10x eye piece) but you are seeing an image in the photos of more like 300x as i have a video camera attached to the lens of the microscope and the lens of the camcorder is also magnifying the image. Worms and cocci i like to use X100 as above, canker x400, hexamiter x600. I am in the process of making an instructional dvd on microscope use which will explain in detail how to use a microscope, When it is finished i will put it up for sale on this site. hope this helps. Jas.

Just saying its better quality than the lidls , I have seen both. Personally i wouldnt use either as im fortunate to own a lab spec microscope and you get what you pay for, its all about the quality of the lenses. The question asked was what are the lidls microscopes like and i personally think the brunel ones are slightly better build quality. but for some one starting out in the world of microscope use they are ok. When you get more involved you will always buy a better model. Neither contain oil immersion lenses so bacterial testing is out of the question but for starter scopes they get you use to what you are looking at. jas.

The problem with salmonella is you have birds which are carriers of the disease but never show any symptoms. but what they do is shed the disease regularly within the loft causing serious disease to those they infect. Im not totally sure why the carriers are not infected by it, my guess would be that its the bacterias way of spreading itself. If it killed everything it came into contact with it would soon not be able to spread itself anymore. Birds like all animals do get some of its own natural immunity to diseases but cant tackle some of them themselves. Think about it this way. In humans we have a fairly complex immune system which is capable of keeping us alive, but there are 100's of disease that we cant tackle by ourselves and without vaccination we die, Polio, MMR, TB, Hepatitis are just some of the disease we cant cope with on our own, we do have some natural immunity if we are unfortunate to have caught them and get over it but without vaccination millions of people would die. Salmonella is no different. Bare in mind also if your birds do get infected with salmonella then we as fanciers are at a very high risk of contraction of it from the birds, the same as rat are the main carriers of salmonella in the world and a high level of transmission to pigeons come from rats . Unlike other forms of disease salmonella in pigeons can be transmitted to humans, so just bare that in mind everytime you clean out you lofts and thats fact. jas.

Your club member is a vet then is he. Just because someone tells you something doesnt mean they are right unless they are qualified to tell you that. My advice comes from 2 of the top pigeon vets in the uk who i personally deal with, and they are the only people im prepared to take advice from as i trust them fully in the advice they give. and the facts that i have a lot of knowledge on pigeon health and know about the devastation that salmonella brings i an knowledgeable to make that call for myself.

A better starter kit is the one below from brunel. At £80 http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/coccidiosis.html As with everything the more you spend the better the quality. Brunel have some really good quality microscopes as they go up in price, and at the end of the day they are a microscope specialist where as lidls is a food store. The advantage of brunel is they are experts in the field of microscopes. jas.

Sorry mate you facts are wrong thats what the term vaccination means it prevents the bird catching it, if you dont treat beforehand and already have the disease present the vaccination isnt as effective. I have also used the vaccine for a few years and would never not vaccinate. Once you have had it im sure you would change your views on it. jas.

Sorry mate thats not true, Parastop is an antibiotic and will only clear it up, it will return back to the bird if it is exposed to salmonella again. The only way to stop it is by vaccination. I wouldnt recommend constant use of parastop as with any antibiotic it destroys good bacteria as well as bad and birds will be immune to it if over used. Prevention is always better than a cure, you dont want to catch salmonella its quite ruthless. jas

i had the same issues jimmy with hopper feeding, i had grilled floors in the stock loft at the time and when i lifted them to clean them out after 6 months i probably had the equivalent of 2 full 20kg bags of corn under there where they had been throwing it around. i do believe little and often is better. I use gem breeding which contains gem pellets, I add calf colostrum to the corn 3 times a week. Matrix grit available 24 - 7, 1 month before pairing i add osteocare calcium liquid to the water twice a week ( available from any good health shop) got this tip from john halstead and the quality of the eggs laid are second to none, very smooth. and thats it, for got to add i also extend the daylight early in the morning so as they can get more feeds in to the young i extend morning and not at night time as i like them to naturally go to roost when its dark youngsters are parted at around 25 days old or when they are fully feathered under the wing. should add also that when the birds have laid and are sitting we re introduce barley back into the feed 50/50 this is to keep the weight down on the stock who get no exercise. Jas

We use wooden blocks cut from 2x4 as its warmer to stand on in our windowhood boxes, the cocks spend all day lying on these throughout the season.

This i believe was the start of the gps system, this is where gem got there ideas from.

Theres another type of one for sale on ebay at £55 new, maybe worth a gamble check out the link below: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ML7-S-Worlds-Smallest-GPS-Datalogger-Pigeon-Racing_W0QQitemZ260502715400QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_GPSSystems_GPSSystems?hash=item3ca72bfc08#ht_2203wt_1167 Jas.

110% prisoner stock thats the only way to build a family of birds, the last thing i would want is my top producing birds being lost or had by a hawk. Anyway they are to valuable to your success to let them out. Would never breed from my racers either until they have proven that they can win multiple prizes, by that point they are ready to be retired to the stock loft to continue on the family line. There is no right or wrong way but you have to way up the odds. for me its always 100% prisoner stock. always breed of winners and if they dont produce anything within 3 years get rid of them. jas.