holmsidelofts

Fantastic dan well done mate.

Thing is bacteria will always be present in most samples. that doesnt mean there is an issue, it will pick up good bacteria as well as bad, the only way to tell what the bacteria is is to grow cultures in a lab which is not a simple process.

Totally agree owen. I am in the process of putting together a petition together to take to the fed along with detail on losses from other clubs etc. I then plan on taking this to the fed and asking for a full investigation into the losses, as im not happy lossing the birds i have lost and i will not take this sitting down.

I do have lib times for the first 3 races for most of the feds liberating, Im putting together a pack of information to take to the fed and liberation times are part of this, its just to time consuming to type them all out online. but i do have them. I totally agree with you on the convoyer side of things our birds came back in a disgusting state last saturday, very dehydrated and struggling to fly up on the perches afterwards, it wasnt just my birds but most of the fanciers i spoke to were saying the same. How can birds be expected to fly home when they are in this state.

I totally agree, thats why we have to do something about it. We are the only feds us welsh feds that fly the east to west route, and we need to re think this because its only gonna get worse. we should either be fly north or south, no east to west as its proven that this road is a suicide road and you may as well not bother flying, the last couple of years have proven that. Its time the WNR fed admitted what we all have known for a long time before its to late and everyone leaves. the only reason i have stuck at this road so long is because of the competition but even the big names are starting to question the route and are looking at other options. When this happens it will be the WNR feds own fault for doing nothing about it.

Map is from google maps, the lib points are taken from the BHW lib info at the back. I know this isnt 100% accurate as some feds have altered there program but it highlights the real issue we have. The liberation sites have also been crossed ref with the rpra website, they have lists of liberation sites etc on there website.

Sorry tom it hasnt just been this year its been for at least 4 years now that people are being wiped out with heavy losses, remember i have been with the welsh north road before they went east to west and its gotton progressively worse every year, its impossible to avoid clashing on this road. As someone else said earlier about the wrong information in the homing world, yes its a revised wnr programme but we have know this for weeks, but every time its printed in the homing world the the information is wrong so how can all the feds around us know where we are if we dont make an effort to tell them. It only takes a phone call or an email to the BHW for them to change the information, but again as far as others are concerned we are at swindon this week not maidstone. Its time we stopped looking for excuses and we need to do something about it before its to late. Other feds are really starting to get pissed at us as we are causing lossages for them also by flying this route, i know this because i have had lots of emails from people in other feds wanting answers.

Hi guys, Good luck for the maidstone race. As promised a map of the liberation's due to take place on saturday, im glad im not sending with all thats going on. All the best though to everyone racing i really hope you have a decent race this week as we need it. jas

Yeah the wind would have taken then slightly of line but it wasnt that strong to taken up to derby, liverpool, wrexham etc. I still have 12 away and have not had one reported yet. They clashed no doubt of that. And it will only get worse for you guys going forward. More and more feds will cross us this week again. I know i wont be sending so good luck to you guys that do, If you have another weekend like we've had for the last couple most people will be wiped out again. I feel really sorry for the birds. As owen said the state of the birds were disgusting when they returned, they were that dehydrated for me that they couldnt fly up onto the trap. Why is that? Not look after properly is my guess.

Thanks for the info tom.

Tom with respect that aint difficult for all the big feds. I have been able to confirm lib times from all the racepoints on the above maps just by asking the question ' what time have you liberated'. In my opinion its up to the race controller to contact all the feds we are likely to clash with and ask the same question, if not a personal phone call, at least confirm it on libline. I know libline aint cheap but keeping racing pigeons isnt either. Its the race controllers responsibility to check all of this before he say go. the trouble is that there are so many feds liberating around us that its pot luck to if they have cleared. its all well and good knowing what time they liberate but we need to know more about how did they clear also. Im sorry if i come across as really negative about this but im really passionate about this sport the same as you are and its not right between the 2 of us we have lost 25 birds in one race. I personally havent had one bird reported yet. My birds the same as yours have been extremely well trained, Mine are very healthy ( the microscope doesnt lie) and well motivated. The birds are of high quality, its not the birds fault, something has to be done. jas.

Guys have a look at the pictures below. It shows all the feds we have crossed for the following races. Swindon youngbirds 2. Newbury 1 youngbirds. Newbury 2 youngbirds. I will upload the map from last week when i have worked out who liberated on what date. I think the maps speak for them selves, this road is suicidal, its pot luck at if we hit something or not. As the weeks go on the chances of clashing gets worse as the feb in the north are getting further south. Im not putting blame to anyone in particular but we are never gonna get away from all these feds with the route we currently take. A direct south route is the best option to avoid all these feds week in week out. Thats the reason for sunday libs, we know these feds are there but we still continue to fly the route. jas.

Totally agree with you owen. For what its worth i have the same thread going on pigeon chat heres some of the comments from there on the subject. by paulh on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:11 pm there are wnrf birds reported in derby/liverpool./nottingham..plus other places that have slipped my mind. they clashed alright. my club m8 whose bird won the club last week is in liverpool. My mate had one reported in Mansfield from Newbury yesterday as well. (from the RV fed i think). by jr on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:56 pm in my opinion clashing,poor weather,sick birds,and cowboy race controllers are to blame for this fiasco,some fanciers dont know a sick bird when they see one,after ybs they need at least a month to get over it and i would say thats a minimum time,we were at billericay at the weekend 170miles i sent 8 got 7 came like drops of blood guy near me sent 49,13 minutes between his 1st and 2nd bird,what happened i can tell you clashing without a doupt,i personaly think a lot of these people in charge of libs dont give a toss,get em up and get home,talk about organised chaos,what pisses me of more than anything is when they tell me porkies when things go wrong.

Sorry tom but adam is dead right, why are you defending the people who treat our birds like sh**, and yesterday they were, and if all the rumors are right about how the convoyers treated the birds yesterday they all should be band from the sport. There will be big changes at the end of the year, the amount of pms im getting from fanciers that are not happy with the WNR fed and the talk at my club last night there wont be many fanciers left at the end of the season. there were big name fanciers with some lossing 30 plus birds yesterday, this is not racing this is board line cruelty, I dont believe that the race controllers are making any efforts to contact all the feds before liberation, they are relying of the weather being ok and thats it. I will not be putting another bird through the WNR again. Your are right in that everyone has to do it for themselsf and thats exactly what im doing, getting away from the incompetence of this fed, As adam said ever since this route was taken in 1999 the lossages have been huge. I flew with the WNR on the north route and never had any lossages like this. I have lost £1000s of pounds worth of birds yesterday, through no fault of there own. But not anymore. Your welcome to the WNR fed i wont be a part of them anymore, i should have done this 3 years ago but thought things would change, how wrong was i. I have been in this sport for 30 years and this isnt pigeon racing.

Hi strapper the problem with when we voted to go either north or south i personally think it was fixed as there were lots more clubs wanting to change route than the fed made out, they never gave us any figures but told us the majority want to stay, we should have been given a break down of what all the clubs wanted, its easy to tell every one bullshit and we believe it. I really hope that all unhappy clubs take a stance with the fed this year and demand to see the figures not trust them, in fact after all the issues this year they cant be trusted anymore. lets do it for the sake of the birds.

i dont think it would be the same, the lossages are huge at the moment but doesnt effect the fed at all, they still get there £7 a week regardless. If we were all pay per bird the fed wouldnt be able to survive, and im sure they would think differently about the way they treat the birds, its all about money and nothing else. Theres no communication between race controllers from other feds, they look at the weather and thats it. Theres no reason why on the shorter races that we basket on saturday morning for a saturday afternoon lib, there would be no need for the birds to spend a night in the basket. I for one have had enough of the east to west route and today was my last race, If my club doesnt go south next year i WILL be resigning and applying to join the south.

would be interesting to see if this bird that has been reported here was in todays race at epsom, it so they have ended up in worcester. They certainly came from the north the birds i saw. The birds i saw coming didnt have a clue where they were either, they were all over the place, could have been caused by dehydration who knows.

There was more clubs last season that wanted to change routes, we were told differently by the fed but when you talk to individual clubs the story is different. I tried and tried to get across to people this route has no future but it just falls on deaf ears. I will be looking out for myself next year and it wont be on the east to west route. I would go back north tomorrow it it had the members that it used to, so south is the route for me next year. How many birds has brom had, ive had 9 out of 22 so far. jas

I will be there next year mate . I just dont understand this fed anymore, the rv fed had a good race lib at 10am epsom, the south had a good race lib 10.30 we again liberate early and this shambles happens, its week in week out, My birds came back in a state too, someone should have there asses kicked for this crap. Thing is this fed dont give a sh** as long as we are paying our £7 a week thats all they care about. they dont give a sh** about the birds, it money money money. I feel sorry for the people who dont have that many left and are either wiped out or close to it, again they will still be expected to pay for the rest of the season. assholes the lot of them.

not the racepoint mate, every race is the same its the route they travel and all the other feds they are crossing week in week out, plus all the airports that they travel through.

Totally agree mate, its just pot luck, I've had a gutsfull of this, As you said its costly sending birds training and racing. even when we liberate on a different day we cant get it right. If this continues i see this being the end for the east to west route, I know of at least 8 fanciers who are changing route next year and that includes me. Im not prepared to throw away good birds any longer, this isnt racing theres no enjoyment for fancier or pigeon in all of this. Its time to sort it out before its to late, theres obviously clashing issue with this route as we have had to resort to liberating on a sunday, and still we have hit something. id rather not race at all than go through this again, this is the 3rd or 4th season of this. No more for me. jas

Looks like a mobile number to me.

Looks like a mobile number to me.

Yeah mate we've had 6 out of 22. not good.

What a disaster yet again. Something has to be done about this route, this is not racing this is ruining good birds.