Roland

They are all just Pigeons ... some have a better reason, more content and wish to be home, so the INSTINC more noticable. Line breeding and Incest are two completely different ways, but both need a Cross to gain results. Yes some clesely bred work wonders, but one has just to see the Breeder Records of the so called 'Greats' to realise that it is very often the cross that does the Flying! More vigour. So simply if one wants a Father / Daughter etc. to keep the genes in the loft so to speak, fine, as many as you like... then cross then out, it's their young that will do the honours mostly.

Nothing stops anyone from sending say 3 x birds boxes taped / or glued to a cardboard bottom instead of a 6 bird box. Nothing to do with wieght now adays, it is A. the awkwardness and B. Shape of the parcel. C. and Main what the journey entails and cost and profit. If say Gangater sends to Durham 4 birds, the courier will be way out of pocket! Best to see sum items as 'Fillers' that if and when they come along it makes the journey a little more sweeter as regards rewards / profit. Say a Van does 22 to the Galleon, and you are getting it at the 85p - Diesel - and claim the V.A.T. back...round it off to £4 for 22 miles.... 300 miles there and back you wouldn't want to do it buisness wise! - Well couldn't. Then you have over Overheads, insurance, breakdowns, cost of paying off van, and then your Morgage to pay, plus the only 8 pair of pigeons you can afford to race lol. Then the misses wants shoes for the kids, and blumming food etc. No one would last long relying on Pigeons matey. They just are a bit of cream, and most drivers are moan free at and happy, know the crack... others will soon learn, IF allowed.

Weight ... let's diverse Dovecote, is only relevant when it threatens to overload.... Shape likewise, but now the Royal Mail, have taken on board 'Shape as to Wieght. the more awkward to carry - lol - the more costlier it is. you run a single van - alet's say a Mecadies Sprint with for many reason is popular, but whatever you need to cover your over heads. you try and duplicate every trip or get part of trips covered! Fuel is going to knock you back say £2800 less Vat when claimed back, £700 a week. Then insuance is prety stiff, and that is without the 'Livestock' insurance that few comapanies cater for, plus the costs of say £24,000 over 4 years plus interest of course Wear and tare and hopefully travel free.... so in real terms before you get out of bed each day you are nearly £200 in debt! Some one would have to cater for 6/8 lots of pigeons ever day to hold your own. All going the same way, on at least on route... if not they change 'Vans' etc. So of course you pick up for Wiilworths, agos, or whoever, which ALL if rarely use you personally - with other companies, you make a 12 hour plus day pay. Obviously it isn't simple, and 5 months in this fancy is dormant to say the least ... so that 6- 8 birds becomes 12 - 16 crates etc. So in realism, take our birs is only of little consequence to them, but handy if not too much hassle. By far more handy to us though than them! Now you have the reasons in a nut shell, why many couriers have started and tried to take our birds, and 99% have packed up after the first race season! And it isn't easy being a driver, especially if you no nowt, or aren't ever been interested in any pets, or cage birds etc. They are told of course, and seem to grasp it... but it is only when a hick up occurrs it rings home... and as the driers turn over is quite large, most couriers is, unles a good permant regulary round that suits is found, then yes we are going to have these hick cups, but slagging constantley isn't, and can't change a iota. The drivers need it related to them... and most fancier need their buisness, whether briliant or crap. They struggle to make a decent wage after speeding up and down the land, dodging speed traps, phone ringing asking where you are, and can you hurry up - no they do get their speeding fines paid, and no thanks when receiving them, but still constanly urged to be a bit quicker, nicely of course. Then the phone for a detour... and the beat goes on, so the last thing they want is slagging off, when most are really trying their best. JMO expierences and coutless others. Nice to be offered a cuppa, even if you don't have time for it. and THAT goes a long way, where a needless, and unearnt flea in the ear doesn't help a jot.

Then if they only have a small amount of complaints say for this month 10 in a 1000 then no business could justify to its share holder they stopped because of a 1% deficate they would get repremanded. If as you say they have shifted a few thousand at 30.00 minimum a go, then your worried thy're going to give up £90,000.00+ turn over a month because 1% complained legitamitly, I really don't think so And if they did and this was the turnover I am sure the pigeon world find some one else to take that sort of money No not realistic at all, wouldn't cover a weeks fuel charges. Yes they transport - Fortunately for them umpteen other products. The turn over from us is really quite small. Just 6/7 Vans means £3000 fuel a month. If it was as lucrative as you suggest, them them many that have tried it would still be catering for the fancy. Of course it isn't else you me and ted over there would be at the Bank tomra for a loan and purchasing Vans etc. I don't feel you have an inkling just whata turn over one would have to have to be prosperous! Nor an inkling the vast turn over is of the like of Amtrak is! Millions and millions. And if they have just had to restructure, or be took over, it shows what a small, negliable profit marging they have to operate in, espescially in face of the stern competition. I can assure you that it is no good running empty vans, and it has to run 24/7 to make profits. and it is the jobs on the way collected and delivered that make or break a courier company. They couldn't operate on just a single journey syndrom! Overheads are vast, so to be competative they have to have a inter structure that allows often drivers changing vechiles or their cargo, and very versitile to be able to run a good tight ship. That is where the problem lies with us and every custormer, it may well be there that problems occur and had to pinpoint, let alone to delve too far and time wise.

Yes I gree, I should re - instate that not only do you have every right but possible redress! Yes and every right, not only to complain, but to seek compensation if and when appropiate.of help! But that is far from the saga of waiting to hear of poor quality service and hark on and on, all to no avail and with only one end possible... It carries on, or they pack it up. Must have shifted a few 1000 this last month alone and it is nice to hear the good sides... but not it is not necessary.

Of course you Do Dovescote, I agree 100%... and also offer pointers you feel may be of help!

Vic I believe in theory that that should apply when 'Selling' and it shouldn't be so much the 'Onus' on the buyer. But unfortunately no one can in this day and age look after the opposition, as they can't set their standards either. If a club only has 6 members and the club sends 65 birds, I personally can't deem it fair to distract in any way the merit of the win. It is their fault, and they would have probably still win against more, or even better opposition. If I was buying birds I'd be a lot more keen and sensitive as to where their location was, and how well they flew against better located birds. May well be for instance that though only 45 birds were entered by a club, and that fancier / birds also showed up well against better favoured locations then their merit is acheived. So I feel it would be - personally unfair to distract from their merit of flying a good bird JMOT's

But I like my birds on the roof tops Jimmy. Out all hours they will do. Bet you that you will see more and they'll tell you more when they are on the roof tops than anywhere else. Remember Billy Taylor saying to me 'You donna want your birds doing that Roland, look at them ... you won't trap them very easy come Saturday'. Saturday, staright in. If a bird wants to be in 'Home' and has striving to get there, does one really believe that when arriving it will sit around and rest! If it does that no worries, because it was way behind anyway. If it wizzed home to be there, for whatever reason, it won't hang about. JMOT's

Well that didnae werk fer me mer

Yep and a cold tea bag will also be an asset mucker.

Bit strong that I reckon ... Spit in it.... tomra it will start getting better, so sit in it again mucker. Then check it's perch place and you will be looking for a little hole, or a knot that has fallen out. It is most likely getting a draught in the eye... from just the one side.

ah, now theirs a thing lol.

All pigeons carry canker to a certain degree. The mild formas are a blessing as that virant will be doing no harm and keeping many other forms at bay. It is a myth that it won't return, it is nothing to be ashamed of, like getting a rat or mouse in the shed at the bottom of a garden 99% of all people have them... especially in the coldr weather when the come in from the fields... likewise with a woman getting thrush... no prevention. Indeed the reality is that if kept completely clear the stronger viarants will take hold. Like I say one must keep changing the treatment for it quickly becomes immuned to them. I had some birds of a ole felloew that had pigeons for over 60 years ... folks outside of me let him down constantlt, and all promises of 'Training never came off ... I travelled over 10 miles to his loft then went back the way I came to train them. He wouldn't allow that. Any way he had never ever treated for canker, Ecoli, and just the Sheep 'Grig, for worms once a year. So he gave me the pigeons he'd selected to keep as a stock loft and packed up ... yes they went around in droves to help clear his birds lol. Any way first thing I did was give the Trichno from Rhonfeld or whatever it's spelt, a triple for the three Ecoli, Canker etc. I thought the flood gates were open - Had sent a example to Johnny 11 foe his comments... just a slight bit of no importance -£2500 - £3000 Micro machinary. Golly I thought I'd opened flood gates, absolute drenched the floor, never mind wet droppings... I put in a higher balance of protein and crossed fingers. Spoke to Johnny and the answer was as expected.... needn't and shouldn't have treated! Told Brian and he said 'You What'! Why! He never has treated!!! took about two months to clear and they slowly come around. Water given was a day old with open top, or from a spring only... Yes they have bred a great round now nearly four months later... times I was about to let them all go. Like they should say, 'If it is broken YOU CAN'T fix it'. So a little viarant is good as a World renowned Vet told me for the reasons given above.

http://www.australian-pigeon-racing.com.au/peregrine.htm if this helps...

I'd take the yellow out with a match stick - cotton bud even, and give it a part tab of what a woman uses when she has thrush. Cleanses is proper. Remember there are nearly 30 different strains - and pigeon having a mild strain preasent at all time is a must - and Canker quickly adapts and treatments are soon rendered usless, good point is then change the treatment used after using it twice.

Lol... not say it... more just do it. Any way it is simple, everyone pays their money and takes a chance. I have done the odd bit of Courier for a Brother - in - law when he is stuck. And let me tell you, the drivers are on a tight schudule to earn a half decent wage. They have to risk the three point speedings part and what not. And once picked up, their next concern is the next call full stop. I've sat in the Canteen waiting yonks to off load something, and they don't give a rat's *expletive removed* if and when you leave, as long as you are there in good time... or load is refused. And then the time factor takes over again and decisions have to be made, taken through not fault of the drivers whatsoever. But a little chat and the importance of 'Live Stock' explained to the driver(S) would work wonders! The driver was working elsewhere last week as a sewage atendant or whatever, and you expect him to know the ins and outs of a donket *expletive removed*... Get real, they need little knowledge to be implanted. And No no every one knows - let alone understand a pittance about 'Live Stock' and why should the, yu are just another point of call and the package is delivered or passed on! What about the times when there is NO ONE to recieve eh! the wife said I was only gone next door for a wee while, wouldn't have hurt him to wait, or knock the doors etc. Enough said, I will only send OTHERS birds from now on when asked too ... like always!

Something up with your Brain muckers, just because I believe you either 'Use or you Don't' that is wrong eh! Cobblers, better I don't use at all than just flipping moan all the time and help put stop to those that need, want, or find it a worthwhile service. Get a life and stop moaning all the flipping time 'CRAP happens, get over it, and stop bleating for Pete's sake! Yes and possiblely when you say I know it all I probably do! I live and let live, and certainly think about others and their' needs / wants! And I certainly don't keep going back to stroke that rotwieller that keeps taking a chunk out my *expletive removed*, I gave up after the first time lol.So just what is wrong with any of my valid points... Nowt that is what, and that does pee you off , so get over that too. I bet you 50 - 1 that the birds Gangster brought back are in fine fettle, and he had a great time, and met and enjoyed! What time Sunday Tammy? the rest of the moaners. 'Get a life'

No I don't know any one that works with Amtrak. Just the odd driver I've spoke to on the rare occasion. But the point is simply, if you use, and have had bad service before, - twice bitten once shy - and continue to send with them, then you have nothing to moan about, you've made your bed so lie in it. Now when I get those four pairs of squeakers of Tammy to set the world alight down here, I will go and fetch them! Sure it's Scotland and the land of barbarians etc. and that can be more than haardous to say the leave ... sign languange only in case the detect a foriegn dialect... And that is £50 worth of petrol, and day sight seeing and loft visits, a day well spent and 4 pairs of crack pigeons! So why would I use Amtrak or any other menas to get them! Especially if I had had bad service before, or took note of all the whinging of others bad service. But I'll tell you what, If I did use Amtraks and got a bad service I wouldn't moan and that's fer sure, I'd be a realist and say 'Weer you bloody fool, after all you've herad you still used them'! Let alone had a bad expierience. And I certainly wouldn't put the spoke in to bugger it up for thoses that do wish to use it, and THINK that I'd had help contribute to Amtrak severing all ties with the fancy and stop doing it completely! Like when wearing tight shoes'''' Why? Because it's nice when you take them off! Nah I wouldn't use them twice if that ever happen to me! Like falling of the roof ... nice till you hit the ground lol.

Listening to Alf too much Jimmy, it's taking it's toll... be as bad as him soon lol

ell DoveCote, nothing in this game - and many others - are perfect. Yes I am sorry you had a bad expierence, of course I and everyone else is. That goes without saying, but the simple reality is Simple, don't send with them. If you don't send you are as sure as hell sure not to have a complaint. So put up or shut up springs to mind. Wasn't Amtraxs fault your bird(s) were peck anymore than flying the air! Suppose thaey are suppose to have a lad living in the box. What I'm saying is, if you don't like the service, fine, don't use it. But don't hang your hat on their peg when much can and should be avoided by yourselves. I left a pair of hens scraping over a nest box once.... the trap came down and one hen was bloody and scalped. Who's fault? Mine, and I don't see how you can spout when you just have to look at the birds pecking on Basket night etc. Yes you should have talen precautions! But still complain to Amtrax and get a refund... but vent your anger where it deserves to be... and that is no me, not probably Amtrax. '

It doesn't matter a jot what I or you or the others think, what matters is the simple fact that very many, infact 1000's appreciate and benefit from Amtrax. Never mind your and others pet hates, it is a simple realism that if you aren't happy with them don't send with them, and let all the others still be able to... till the whingers and moaners stop them picking up. Just what gives you the right to voice a ranting discharge every chance you get. I, and everyone else knows your views, but they won't matter a jot, so do us all - who have to use them, a bit of peace and allow us to get on with them... whilst you buy a bike and peddle over the mountains... And the last scenario is nothing more than a plea for others to jump on your band wagon and make you feel a bit more leadership with a following. Get over it mucker and don't spoil it for everyone else ... Yeah your right SO what, hope you peddlstool feel grand when others can't send via Amtrack because you and you likes with their inceesant whinging have spoilt it for everyone. Put up with it, get on board or just be quiet, for you, and me have had more than a fair say on this subject. And no it's not personal - where not to me ads I would get by without Amtracks and like you, use a car or a bike to fetch and carry... or go without.

So you won't moan at all when they tell you get stuffed ad go and fetch or deliver you own flaming birds!!! Or course you will, and so will the countless thousands that have good service most weeks and then THEY too can't send becuase it's your right - God given or otherwise - to spout out with others the constant groans and whinging! Like I say, around here it seems very rare that it hasn't been a satisfactory service... but then we don't moan all tye bloody while eh! But your SELFISH right with others wll put a spanner in the spokes for all, and just what will you have acheived??? Nothing, absolutely niss all! And you - like the others have a brain to reason eh! No whilst you think/ believe that tou are - and too many others - are something special with something special to moan about the sad reality is your not! And when Amtraks do pack up, I hope you put your hand up and smile and say 'I helped to do that matey boy, ain't I clever, and didn't we do well'!! yea yeah. lol

Interesting eh! http://www.moggies.co.uk/warning.html http://www.elversonpuzzle.com/biospot.html And then http://www.parkvets.com/clientinformation-flea.html And then http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=One+Spot+fleas&meta= Then look under the Heading Feral Pigeons … http://www.dmcginley.com/pestfacts.htm Well sommat to read eh!

Cinnimon / honey, and perhaps even a pod of black pepper.

Yep and Amtrak will soon be sayimg 'Stuff Them they aren't worth the bother'!