thanks for the replys, was a distaster to say the least :o 90 odd members sent 180 odd birds in this specialist 2 bird club!! some of the best flyers in the north west :-/ were liberated at 1pm, and as far as i know by race finish last night 10pm there were only 4 yes 4 galant ybs that had made it home, think the winner was timed at 18.45 flying 167 miles thats about 850 ypm!! havent got a clue what happened, everyone has sent there best 2 ybs?? any ideas anyone? i know it was a strong north wind but thats just crazy!! some of the older guys i have spoke to have never know any thing like it!! and no none of mine are home as yet!! doubt i will see them again now, strong north wind again today!! :'( arrrh well the joys of pigeon racing hey ;D