would like to thank everyone for all the offers have had plenty to look at will look at them all later when i have more time, and bandit lovely birds mate, and King Billy i respect your few on these birds you are not the only one with teh same idea, the first pair of rollands i had were given to me by a friend who spent a lot of money on them and after 2 years he decied to kill them all as he said they were useless, but he said i could have the pick of them and he has kept the pedigree and he said in 2 yars time if i still like them or rate them or do ok with them i can have the pedigrees, only time will tell i wont come on here and tell you told you so or you were right, but i do accept your opinion, there is good and bad in all breeds and its up to the individual to find out if they are good or not, and all i will say if they are any good i will find it out in the basket,