PigeonTracker

Okay now I'm back safely in my office I'm going to reply to what appears to be orchestrated personal attacks on my company. Firstly, and most important, all pigeons were safely delivered and in excellent condition. To the one in Glasgow who condemned the 53 hour wait, that's 3 days and I can provide records of our conversations from our staff where we constantly apologised for the delays due to circumstances beyond our control. You had the opportunity to voice your concerns to me personally when I handed you the bird, wonder why you waited for the forum? To Jimmy_Bulger, I'm hugely dissapointed at you coming onto the forum bad mouthing when it was you along with other factors I'm going to explain actually contributed to the growing delay. So to get the facts right, there was a massive traffic jam on the M4 which kept that particular drop static for almost 4 and a half hours, at the same time in their infinate wisdom the police were doing spot checks using ANPR (Automatic Number Plate recognition), this helped delay more for thousands of commuters that day not just us. Combine this with delays caused by inconsiderate fanciers (Posted about seperately) and the fact that half of Edinburgh is under roadworks with diversions just about everywhere it was a nightmare journey. Despite this, and the fact we were constantly in touch with those that bothered to answer thier phones we did not hold back and even though it would have been easy to go the amtrak route, and most other couriers, by simply taking the birds back to a depot and delivering a week later we never. We stayed on that route until we completed it regardless of our own personal comfort. Because of the delays we wanted to make sure that not one bird stayed on the van more than one day of travel at any one time, so worked around our holding lofts to make sure they were well looked after while we underwent constant re-routing. It appears to me that the critics here (small in number compared to those who praise us) are akin to football fans who expect their star striker to score every game he plays in. When he scores you love him, it is the same with Pigeon Tracker, we provide an excellent service 99.8% of the time and praised for this, when we failed to deliver this one occassion through no fault of our own, akin to the star striker your all shouting that you want us out. You really need to take a step back and see how poorly you've all behaved, and the language wholly unnaceptable, moreso that there are many female and child readers of this forum, you've brought shame on this forum, yourselves and your own sport. I hope you all take time to reflect on how you've behaved and after reading this and another post I'm about to make apoligise not only to this forum but perhaps to my company as your attacks are uncalled for and unacceptable. Pigeon Tracker works diligently to deliver all birds on time or as best possibe taking into account things like traffic, weather, and awkward non-fanciers, together with a minority of inconsiderate (or non thinking) fanciers which will be explained on another post. Kind words came from Mr. Jamieson from Scotland who you all know when he said you won't please all of the people all of the time. How true he was, however, Mr. Jamieson was happy with the fact he had his birds delivered fit and healthy albeit with a delay. To quote him regarding the delays due to circumstances beyond our control, 'these things happen', he was not the only one who praised us regardless of the delays. Remembering this was not a week or a fortnight delay, it was a two day delay at most, note that we always tried to phone and note that we stayed on that route until the end, then try justifying your outrageous behaviour these past few days. I'm off to my next post now where I hope the critics here, read and recognise that by criticising couriers like my company they are ignoring the fact that fanciers themselves are often the cause of the problem regarding delays and should be addressing that before jumping in like a pack of baying hyenas wanting their pound of flesh off the couriers. I'm sure most will appreciate that I simply have to defend my company and would confidently throw down a challenge to any one of you critics here to do what we've done. I'm not going to get drawn into personal attacks for that's not the way I or my company work, what I would ask is that you perhaps take stock of my next post which will be linked here before attacking my company in future, you'll see what I mean on reading. Unlike Amtrak and others we are always available for contact, and despite the rudeness of impatient people we deal with problems in a courtious and professional manner and will always do our best to work with the fancier to give answers. This is done in the hope that eventually we WILL create what I believe will be the UK's best dedicated pigeon courier, to do this we need YOU the fancier to work with us, not attack us, and my next post will explain just what's going wrong with the fancier and couriers which is causing your disquiet with delays. Sorry for the long post, it was required... Jamie I'll post the link here in a bit....

To reply to every one of the posters going the extra yard to complain that their pigeons hadn't arrived, or even the ones who appear to be the"peanut throwing gallery", would take an age, so I'll just reply this once and when I have more time I'll address each individually to put things straight and to put to rest most of the rumours on here that are based on nothing but spite, boredom or for whatever other reason. From my own personal experience any courier who faced what we did in London and with very awkward customers giving wrong address and so on they would have returned to base and delivered a week or so later. We went the extra yard for all our Scottish customers and one from Liverpool, who for the record had his pigeons safely delivered after being stopped at Ediburgh where the birds were fed and watered thanks to Jimmy White, I'm hugely dissapointed as he came across Jamie came across a decent person, perhaps this was an impulse post by him>? I wonder if Amtrak, or the other couriers out there would go to the lenghts we do or perhaps return them to their non loft bases for a week or more? Must dash now, typing from Jimmy's system and need to get back down to Wales to deliver for the satisfied customers who by far outwiegh the three on here who seem to have issues with us.? The simple thing is, we aim to please, and if that means one or more of our drivers has to stay out extra hours to deliver so be it. More to come..... If you need it. Jamie

I'm going to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand because it seems a few of you are keen to try and pick a fight with me which isn't going to happen. What I was suggesting was not to 'police' as you put it, but that it might be a good idea for couriers to give people feedback to fanciers who otherwise might not get it for a wide range of reasons. Lots of people buy blind off the internet so a service like this could be a great help for them don't you think? The thought of a courier policing the fancier is ridiculous and the last thing in the world I'd ever want to do is be judge and jury and list someone publicly as a bad fancier, the reason why? If I ever had to go to that level then they wouldn't be fanciers, they'd be rogue traders who use the viel of the internet to ply their trade and truth be known I'd probably name then and do us all a favour. For what its worth Ian, I agree with you, some of the biggest and fanciest looking outfits might well be some of the worst breeders because they do it on mass with little care for the pigeon, whereas the small guy who pays more attention to detail with just a few birds but might not have the time or ability to keep prestine lofts would probably be someone I'd recommend over any of the big players. It never hurts to throw in ideas into the melting pot and get reactions from people, and if you pick through the bitching you get some really valuable points and definately learn things, which can never be a bad thing. Lets keep debates as just that, and not into slangfests, its good discussions with the ability to agree to disagree on certain things that will help a forum and fancying in general move forward as we all learn from each other. Jamie

Chris, Im not sure if your trying to pick a fight here? I've already said that we can agree to disagree on the upkeep of a loft, you have your opinion and others will have theirs, its what makes the world go around. I've know some winners come from less than clean lofts but its less than the winners I've seen from well maintained ones.

Exactly right Rose, but many haven't got that ability, and a good courier, especially run by fanciers would be the next best thing if you couldn't get to see the buyers. I'll agree to disagree with Chris on the upkeep of lofts, I'll go for good one any day of the week. Run down doesn't mean anything, filthy unmaintained ones does, and thats the point I was making. In answer to other posters who claim naming and shaming would be business suicide, good buyers and sellers wouldn't be concerned about anything, the only ones who'd have problems are rogue traders, the ones who shouldn't be in the sport anyway. Nobody said for a second that couriers should be monitors, but the fact they have their finger on the pulse can only be a good thing and it would only go to help people make a more informed opinion on whether to buy or not.

Good advice Rose, I was asking this question to several of the members here who were on the same run as what I felt was a 'dodgy' or certainly questionable seller, I would have loved to name and shamed but felt it would be going into murky waters. Not liking an owner or his methods is one thing, a rogue seller another. The one benefit of fanciers delivering to fanciers is we usually get to see the lofts, talk to the sellers and buyers and can pretty much get a full story of who's good and who's not. The forum webmaster can be taken to task for libelous posts made by his members so there's quite a lot to look at before going down that road, the one thing we plan to do on our website is listing our own good and bad sellers based on customer feedback from our own database which is slighlty larger than this and we won't ever be listing something we can't support. Perhaps then a link to the forum here via an RSS feed would help the members here without putting this forum into a platform for an all out slanging match between rival sellers, which can happen as we all know. Any help needed let me know. Jamie

Thanks Adam, perhaps if claims like this are made in future people should consider taking it up with the couriers first to establish the facts before posting on open forums. I have tried to contact the other person as I don't think its a nice thing to lie about any company that is working to help the fancier, it makes you wonder what the motive was regarding this??? That said, the good members here can make their own minds up on that based on their own experiences of our services as to why someone would want to try and discredit us. Thanks for your post clearing the matter up. Jamie

Hello Adam, having just phoned you I've just made it absolutely clear that I happened to be the delivery driver in question, and at no time did I ask or recieve £5 from Mr. Wilson, the other person you comment ade the untrue claim in your post. You paid £25 for a 600 mile round trip delivery when the normal price would be £30 because you came as a referral from Chrismaidment, and unless we have a large number of drops (about 15) where we can then try and pass on savings to the customer the fee for a long trip like that at £30 which in all honesty is not unreasonable if the service is of a high standard. I've tried to contact Mr. Wilson but he's not available, I'd be grateful if you'd amend the post accordingly to portray the accuracy of our delivery. I'll keep any others interested when I get to the botton of why you would be told a blantant untruth, a bit naughty in anyone's eyes. Thanks, Jamie. p.s;

LOL; It was the cloud cover that took out the sat nav just as we drove past so blaming the tools this time, and no I never though Glasgow was that big, last time I was up there was on a New Year's eve and the only part I knew that existed was a bar area in one of the local pubs. ;D Good thing was we had a 99% success rate on returns so thanks to all fanciers for accomodating our delivery schedule. Jamie.

We are a dedicated pigeon courier but if we weren't carrying pigeons at the same time or could put the products in for example the front seating area of the vans then I don't see why not, one thing we would not do is compromise on the safety of the birds by placing anything heavy or noxious in the vehicle with them which I'm sure you'd understand. As you never said what products I couldn't really comment much more but feel free to contact me via p.m. Jamie

Yes we do operate all year round, and yes, Google DO penalize sites for duplicate content so if for example this forum wanted to beat its rivals at getting listed high the best way to do that is with unique content. That said I'll happilly post a summary here in the next few days if people want.

You said it, I thought it. Any company that risks mixing livestock with hardware are running a huge risk, I would not want to be that one customer who just happens to be the first one to get a crushed bird back as has happened many times with Amtrak. Price should be irrelevant to the real fancier who cares for his birds, but this is the real world and price does have some importance, so dedicated couriers with good prices will always be the winner in my books. Most wouldn't have sat in the back of a van or truck with it stinking of turps or some other pungent if not toxic smell, most of us wouldn't have sat in the back of a van for 300 miles or more being bashed about by heavy boxes and so on, I'm betting that if you did then you'd not bat an eyelid at paying an extra couple of pound to ensure your birds never suffered the same, they have the same senses, if not more than us humans. Off the soapbox, as said, pricewars aren't for us, we're only interested in providing a great service and will do our best to do so. Jamie

Wouldn't it be easier to go over to our website? http://www.pigeontracker.com I can always post here as well, but Google don't like duplicate content and might penalize the forum because of it. There might be a few pages that need some work at the moment, setting up a website the way you want it isn't a simple thing these days. :-/

Thanks Alex, I'm humbled on behalf of myself and the great backroom team we have including our drivers, all fanciers themselves, we're looking forward to serving you all in sport and putting the birds first which what it should always be about, owners come a close second of course but they aren't in the back of the vans. Jamie

Again, we believe strongly that carrying Pigeons with any type of logistics simply isn't the way forward. We can not make you choose us, but as Pigeon Fanciers we know what is the best way to transport a Pigeon, this isn't with toxic/heavy/unsafe goods. Our prices are still £25 for up to 4 Pigeons and £2.00 thereafter when we have a few runs in one day, which has been the case for the past couple of weeks. Hope this helps.

Thanks for clearing that up Vallance Lofts, I just pointed the poster to the best link I could find.

I'm betting that this website will be able to help http://www.europigeons.nl/eng/index-eng.htm, I doubt if they'll transport any further than the terminal, either plane or ferry but you'd be best off contacting them and asking.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to not use them again if their service is that poor. If there's anything we can do to help you out in the future Paul you just let us know, we'll try our best and certainly will not leave you in the dark.

Good for you guys, I know you phoned us this morning an if there is anything we can do to help you get back up on your feet we will. One benefit of living in a tight knit community is we all come together when the chips are down. Good Luck for the future, Jamie Pigeon Tracker

I'm not going to poke fun at other couriers as tempting as it might be, secondly you don't have to us them, or if they're incredibly cheap such as �25 to Dublin then they can take my birds as well. ??) Just to make it clear for the members here that Pigeon Tracker are as transparent and more importantly realistic about our pricing structure, it can be found by following this link. http://www.pigeontracker.com/prices.html We beleive our pricing is fair and the fact that the more birds we carry each trip the more likely we're able to pass on this saving to our customers shows that we're not putting profit first. As for the 'Dope' Chris, Our fee is simular only we stop at the base price, and not wanting to get into an argument I do think it needs to be made clear that �25 for up to 25 miles would mean in real terms up to 50 miles as it would be there and back, pretty fair when you take into account it takes a gallon of petrol to get up each mountain in Wales. ??)

When one does the cooking, the other sits on his backside watching the soccer. ;D sorry, couldn't resist trying to lighten the mood with what happened to the Gill boys. Most of the other posts pretty much answered anyway.

I know what you were saying and would probably do the same as anyone else but end up getting done for it, the best way to deal with scum like this is to help them across the road when they least expect it. That road being the M25

I don't feel sorry for myself but when I saw one of our lads just win a gold on the cycling it put things into perspective.

Thanks Flighty, I know we're all up in arms here about it, no good threatening the idiots who done this Chris, they probably can't even read. Knowing the Gills as I do it would be a saving grace for the swines who done this if the Police caught them first.

Don't apologize for showing concern, its going to be appreciated throughout the community. The Gill Bros are very well known where we are and as a closely knit community it won't take long for the grapevine to get the message over to find these people. I'm sure there are more than one poster from our area who'll keep everyone upated as well. Jamie