PigeonTracker

None of the above are approved by the RPRA as they don't endorse anyone and to the best of my knowledge only Pigeon Tracker have taken the time to get an approved licence from the Government. (I may stand corrected on that though). Although as pointed out to Duncan I can't publish the licence here I can at least post our authorization number. UK/CARDI/T2/00034674 When it comes to Livestock there is a different requirement which includes the company drivers to take a test for a certificate of competancy which is carried out by a Defra approved examiner. Pigeons, Doves and Cage and Aviary are exempt from this, only wild fowl, animals like pigs and so on require the latter. Hope that helps. Jamie

I agree Jimmy and as I said from Day 1 its all about creating a network of likeminded people who have the resource and knowledge on how to put in place a structure that goes to benefit the fancier and breeders alike. Anyone who thinks they now it all and think they are above coming to forums like this are living in a world of their own.

lol; Cheaper doens't mean better OldYellow but in all fairness after speaking to the people responsible I like their principles so never rule out anything I say.

Welcome to the mad world of couriers, having spoke to you on the phone about your new venture I for one look forward to speaking to you again. Jamie

Excellent post Jimmy. As one of the members here in the firing line (of my own doing of course) I couldn't agree more that a little forum decorum wouldn't go amiss. We all get fed up at times and we all have to learn to agree to disagree on certain points. Post of the month would be a good idea, yours would be a front runner for sure. Jamie

Reading what I said in the correct manner might be a good idea. The licence we have been issued with allows us to carry all types of animals, at no time would we or do we intend carrying anything other than pigeons, and in the example of Duncan and his good Wife, Doves as we don't discriminate between breeds. There may be a time when we diversify into cage and aviary so the licence would of course cover us for that as well. So to put the record straight for you. The licence we were issued with allows us to carry all types of animals but we only carry pigeons, the authorities don't have seperate licences for each species but do have special requirements for livestock such as a competency certificate. In reply to you Duncan, no, I won't scan our certificate here for you to see, that would mean easy replication and render it open to anybody simply copying it and making it out that they are part of my company. If you wish to see it at any time you are more than welcome as, if and when you chose to use us as a copy is with all drivers for that purpose. I'm sure you'll understand the logic behind that. Back to redwhiteblue, regarding your stance against using our holding lofts that will always be your choice as it is our choice not to travel any further north than our designated area. Good luck on finding the right courier for yourself who can both deliver further North as we can and cover the rest of the UK at the same time. Hope my answer clears up any ambiguity there might have been. Jamie

To the relevant licencing authorities. People should have in mind that the issuing authorities are aware that there are plenty of malicious people out there who would make up complaints for the sake of making them and would investigate thoroughly any complaints before acting on them so it wouldn't be a free for all for the malicious to throw unfounded complaints about. Anonymous complaints won't be accepted either so the complainant would have to stand up and be counted which is a good way to cut down on malice. As I've maintained before, its not all about fanciers, its about us couriers being held accountable and for one I'm not afraid to stand up to my reponsibilities and duty of care to the birds entrusted to my company hence the reason we made sure we got licenced which I suspect isn't the case with many other couriers.

Sure you can but lets not allow this thread to go off topic so am sending you the information via p.m.

With all the hullaballoo about us couriers, in particular the bad ones has anyone even taken the time to check out whether they are even licenced to carry them? Pigeon Tracker are Government authorized to carry not just pigeons but all types of animals and go to great lenghts to protect this privilage. The negative posts about some other couriers just made me think that if they are that bad then why haven't they had their authorization revoked?

The Moderators are always up against it and aren't appreciated for the hard work involved. As mac1 said and as I've said to your face mate, well done, you and all the team running this place are doing a great job. Its one of the few forums where there's only a few troublemakers on here and I'm sure you'll route them out which is why this is from the feedback I get on the road the best pigeon forum around. Jamie

What's the show like? I'm doing the Aberdare one Nov 1st and probably the Blackpool one as well but never had the time for the Caerphilly. Are there many stands/stalls there to be seen?

Actually Duncan there were no neighbours about or they would have heard the comments on your worries about pigeon pie and thought you to be a racist. (No need to go further into that as what I discussed with you I took to be in confidence). When you post can you do people a favour, give them all the facts and not select snippets, it helps them get a clearer picture of why your actually feeling the need to post about conversations. £2 or £2 million makes no odds to me, the point I made to you at the time was that Pigeon Tracker aren't doing it purley for the money but for the love of the sport and as fanciers, and for me personally it was for the love of meeting people like you and the thousands of other charectors out there both good and bad. On that note I'll reply to your earlier post where your asking for all bar the key to our lofts so you can go "Inspect things". As a non fancier and a non courier related businessman I don't expect you to understand certain things so I'll tell you. Firstly, go and ask the Royal mail if you can go and see their sorting offices because your concerned at how your mail is getting delivered, it would be the same with every courier company who'd tell you the same answer, I'm guessing the answer would be polite but would start with the letter N and end with the letter O. With Pigeons its a little different, for the lofts people are welcome to come and see them, our first official one is in Aberdeen with Kevin Elliiot, make an appointment with him and I'm sure he'd be happy to show you around, the same will apply with every other holding loft as we have nothing to hide. As for the secure units the birds are then transferred to for an evening during transit we would not be showing you these for the obvious reason that many of these birds are very expensive, we protect this fact hence the secrecy needed on where our units are. To the contrary of your cynisism, often unwarranted, Pigeon Tracker actually knows what its doing and has put a lot of thought into how things are run. We welcome feedback from fanciers as it will always go to help us improve our service and make it the best in the Country. What we don't welcome though is uneducated comments being made that are likely to cast aspertions on any courier company regardless of who they are. If top breeders around the country are happy to use our system and so are thousands of fanciers of all sizes then that's pretty much a good indication that we're doing things right. The original post was about Cooper Logisitics being a "Bunch of Idiots", lets respect this forum and the original poster by keeping these threads on track is it.

Yes you are having digs Duncan, and some if not most of the digs are absolutely valid and justified. The horror stories I've heard on my travels would make pretty bad reading for anyone but yet people on here are STILL prepared to use this type of courier. Simple fact is people should already be aware that there are those you should stay a mile away from and those that have even at this early stage proved thier more than up to the task. I'm the one that coined the phrase holding loifts as it was part of our logistics to get in place units where the birds can be safely housed for the night where they can be fed by a fancer/driver and kept without fear of getting lost or stolen. If you want to see what one looks like go to your nearest industrial estate look at the small units there and you'll get the idea. Let me tell you from experience Duncan, 99.0 of fanciers are flexible and you can take my word on that, in pigeon transport there's no such thing as a fixed schedule, there never should be and this bullying by a select few to get birds from A to B without thought or care for the health of the bird shows who the true fanciers are and who the ones who just think they are get shown for what they are. Hundreds of top breeders read this forum and I speak to them often on the subject of delivery times and schedules, I speak to the small ten bird fancier as well on the delivery times and not one true fancier has EVER complained or even been concerned about time as long as the birds are looked after, and that's the reality of it. Y ou ask anyone who's over a certain age how many times they've had a little piece of card through the door saying 'Sorry there was no answer, your delivery has been returned to the depot or shoved in the bin at the back of the house or even with the neighbour next door you don't get on with. The fact of the matter Duncan, whether you like it or not, people simply have to be flexible and thankfully most true fanciers are. People condemn couriers (some should be) but in truth Duncan, you know as well as I that you had no chance of getting (say in your case 6 doves) down from your neck of the woods to Bradford and then back using just £30 of petrol, wear and tear of the car, your time, patience and so on. The point I was making, and most will have got it is that some of us couriers out there are proud of what we're doing and regardless of how well we do some people will still want more. Christ, someone even complained on the colour of the boxes the other day! Go figure huh, the boxes were free. ??) It seems clear to me from the good people on here (and most are) that some couriers should not be in the business, they aren't fanciers and as such should not touch pigeons with a bargepole, they've proven this time and again. So the moral of my post was DON'T use them, but please, don't tar all with the same brush, there are some of us out there that actually know and care about what we're doing, and whilst still on a learning curve will eventually get there. I'm off now, I'm not getting embroiled into heavy debate with people on the efficacies of pigeon carrying, the end argument is that as long as the bird is healthy from point A to point B and delivered in a reasonable time then that's all that matters. I can quote every top breeder in the country on that one as I can every decent fancier. Get the kettle on, I'm up your way today. Jamie

In an ideal world everyone would love to have their birds picked up and delivered the same day but its not an ideal world and it will take some time for any courier including my company to get to the stage where we can deliver every bird within hours as some people want. In the meantime we'll do our best to make sure cross contamination is kept to a minimum by never mixing the birds as you might be led to believe. They are never given water from the same cup, and never mixed in lofts other than boxed. For the information of those that might be curious, holding lofts (in our case) are isolation units where the birds get to stay overnight if needed, they aren't even taken out of the boxes at the same time duncan they get their heads dipped and given corn each one at a time. I'm not into disrespecting other couriers regardless of the merit, what I am into is getting it across to people that creating a false sense of panick amongst people is the wrong way to go. If people are to be so concerned with cross contamination then quite honestly not one of us would put a bird in a race and that's pretty much a fact. I along with a thousand others complained like hell when Amtrak got away with thier antics and now I see people constantly having a dig at couriers (some deserve it btw). If people are that concerned and so distrustful of couriers then surely they should be jumping in their own cars and getting their own birds, that way they could blame no-one else but themselves. Sorry guys but it had to be said, there are some of us out there that are working damn hard at getting it right for everyone, it will take some time and its only been 5 weeks or so and we're getting there. Work with the courier and you'll get the service we all deserve even if it takes a little longer than we all want. Jamie

In an ideal world everyone would love to have their birds picked up and delivered the same day but its not an ideal world and it will take some time for any courier including my company to get to the stage where we can deliver every bird within hours as some people want. In the meantime we'll do our best to make sure cross contamination is kept to a minimum by never mixing the birds as you might be led to believe. They are never given water from the same cup, and never mixed in lofts other than boxed. For the information of those that might be curious, holding lofts (in our case) are isolation units where the birds get to stay overnight if needed, they aren't even taken out of the boxes at the same time duncan they get their heads dipped and given corn each one at a time. I'm not into disrespecting other couriers regardless of the merit, what I am into is getting it across to people that creating a false sense of panick amongst people is the wrong way to go. If people are to be so concerned with cross contamination then quite honestly not one of us would put a bird in a race and that's pretty much a fact. I along with a thousand others complained like hell when Amtrak got away with thier antics and now I see people constantly having a dig at couriers (some deserve it btw). If people are that concerned and so distrustful of couriers then surely they should be jumping in their own cars and getting their own birds, that way they could blame no-one else but themselves. Sorry guys but it had to be said, there are some of us out there that are working damn hard at getting it right for everyone, it will take some time and its only been 5 weeks or so and we're getting there. Work with the courier and you'll get the service we all deserve even if it takes a little longer than we all want. Jamie

There was confusion between the seller and courier nothing more. We were told his order was cancelled yet they were still put on our van. Alls well that ends well there as Steve gets his birds in the morning safe and well which is what its about. I'll ignore the dummy spitting delboys of this world as some people would complain about the colour of the boxes that we use because they don't match the colour of their eyes. The old saying you can't satisfy all the people all of the time is one I'll stick by and wish delboy luck with his new couriers whoever they'll be.

Nobody is saying any different Duncan but this forum nor any other for that matter gives people free licence to make nonsense claims without foundation. I've invited this poster to tell me why he thinks we let him down and look forward to hearing from him. As you said, if and when we do make any errors we'd be happy to be held accountable but by our customers who in truth should deal with us as a company first port of call and then if they're still unhappy they can post about their discontent. The problem is at the moment is people seem to be posting for the sake of posting and many prompted to promote their chosen courier which of course they are entitled to do but not by making false claims and discrediting my company without foundation.

Actually mighty flyer what the poster should have done is posted facts not just a random comments. I've invited the poster to back up his claim because the way it stands now it looks as if he's posting just out of malice which is what this forum should never be allowed to do as it puts a bad name on fanciers not the couriers. I can be certain that if we'd recieved a complaint from this person it would have been dealt with and recorded. The fact we hadn't means one never existed and leaves you wondering of the motives behind his post. :-/

Would you care to tell me where we let you down? I don't recall any complaints coming through to either myself or my offices? There's nothing worse than someone making these types of claims of 'being let down' without backing them up, at least then I can stand up for my company, I'm sure if you had a valid complaint we could have and would have dealt with it at the time and not by randomly posting on a forum an untrue or unsupported claim.

Top pointers all around, I was leaning to yellow mucus as infected but of course if the bird is distressed it can produce discharge we call pigeon canker ( trichomonads) << Posh term. Vets are a rip off IMHO, they charge you XYZ amount of money just for breathing the same air as them, (sorry but my opinion only). Trick is to treat a pigeon as a mini human, you'd not give anti-biotics to a child just for a green snotty nose so don't give them to the bird if you can avoid it, doing so will build resistance and eventually they will create an immunity to them. The Olbas oil definately works as do the tips others use as they reduce the inflamation of the membrane within the birds breathing passage and can also de-stress the bird thus reducing canker.

Olbas oil is one thing you could try as it has more natural tendencies and as potent as the others like vic etc, however as one member pointed out if its yellow then it means its likely to be infection and if it hasn't cleared up after a few days of its own ability then anti-biotics should be a line to be at least considering.

Best wishes to you Jim, wondered why you were'nt picking up the phone, will speak in the week. Jamie

My daughter can't drive so it would have been one of our lady drivers we have, they can be as good as me ya know, or at least that's what they told me and as you were happy with them I won't disagree. ;D Note to be taken from this thread is that as long as people don't expect parcelforce type delivery (guaranteed same/next day) and put more emphasis on the care for the birds health during transit than the speed of delivery which is what most good fanciers do, things can only get better. On that note thanks to all the great members on here who've used us so far, thanks for the positive and once in a while negative comments, they've given use lessons which needed to be learned. The key to success is for neither the courier to be making empty promises and having the knowledge to care for the birds during transit to the fancier having a little patience on timescales. Once again thanks everyone. Jamie

Paypal can be an excellent way to save bother with payment and do offer an arbitration service if your not happy with you buy but from my experience they are often very one sided toward the buyer and offer very little seller protection. The percentage they take varies if your a verified buyer/seller and or what type of account you have with them and this includes charging you for buying, then even charging you for withdrawing your money to your real bank which is another few percent. Lots of 3% to 6% make lots of money lost for the seller who in the end will try to pass it on to the buyer which is probably why people are now stopping using paypal.

Last read before some Zzzzzzzzz, gave me a good giggle, nice post. ;D