Big Davie

You may think its a Mickey Mouse treble but the Gers were still good enough to Donald Duck Celtic oot the cup yesterday :emoticon-0136-giggle:

Havent seen anything beating these two of Gordons' must be in with a chance of topping the Fed

G Orr 1269 G Orr 1268 D Gillespie 1147 D Gillespie 1st share of pools G Orr 2nd share Couple of crackers from Gordon

Ah did Accy, was in with ma daughter and the Grand weans after being at the water palace with them, didn't see you, hope your no spying oan me

Billy, alright young fella, getting back to your 2 ETS timing systems, I admire your honesty for posting this, again I wouldn't suggest for a minute that you are doing anything dodgy with them, so long as you are comfortable with that then so am I but I still think you would have a tough time explaining this to an official of an organisation. Regards my motive for posting this up and a reply from Walter, read the posts again you are way of the Mark , I posted in reply to Walter Swanston but got a reply from Walter Boswell, you are fishing for something, but you are casting your line into a river with no fish, their is nothing to catch, I have no hidden agenda, I have already given my reasons on a couple of occasions why I started this topic and these remain the same, with 200 replies and over 7000 views I have got the wheels turning in men's heads. This will be my last post on this thread where I have enjoyed reading all of the different points of view, to all , enjoy your 2016 season where I wish you the best of luck, just don't allow yourself to be the man who falls foul of the rules and gets made an example of.

Stevie, yours is all legal then so long as yer doos can't be timed when they're running about the ground under the dookit

Billy I might be missing the point here with me getting on a bit now, I'll auld guy ye ya cant don't think for a minute that you are doing anything dodgy but even though you have two separate systems, one for training and one for racing I think you would have a tough time explaining that and why you had pads fixed under the landing board of the Sputniks to some official, the way i see it, If you only wanted to use one system and you only wanted to time through the one customised race trap would it not only be a matter of moving the 2 pads inside the Sputniks , leaving these closed so nothing could enter, and then connect them to the race system with only the customised race trap being opened by your family to time arrivals while you were at work, this would mean you would only need one system instead of 2 and it would comply with the rules, or am I missing something and getting this wrong??

Billy I certainly don't know all of the rules and have never professed that I do, never heard this one before, when you say you have two active systems at your loft do you mean both active and in use at the same time for the same race or are we talking about 2 pocket clocks ?? You will have to clarify what you mean, I probably won't be able to answer you but pretty sure you will get a load of opinions

Walter, sorry, I try not to get personal with my comments but couldn't help myself with the version of Winston Churchills rules which for me don't apply in the context of this debate, I've already stated why rules are needed and have also said I have some empathy with some of your comments, I'm really not a bad guy, also spare a thought for the man who could have taken the top position after timing legally but didn't due to a bird being timed elsewhere on a system that did not comply with the rules

Ok Walter, maybe better to just do away with all of the rules, then we can all do whatever we want and no one will bother, if you believe that then you're deluded

Guys When I started this thread I knew it was a sensitive topic and would be controversial, the intention was to get members thinking and debating the matter with a view to raising awareness of what the SHU rules actually are regards timing arrivals with ETS. We now know that that rule 22 has been deleted ( pads need to be numbered and sealed in position ) and that the rules still in force are rule 2, ETS timing systems MUST be fitted within the loft, rule 9, ETS can only record the arrival time AFTER the pigeon has entered the loft, and the likely meaning / interpretation of this, and rule 8, officials of the race organiser have the right to inspect the trapping system used where in respect of this last rule the SNFC have announced a reminder on there website that random checks could be carried which could result in disqualification, the random checking of the trapping system where ETS is in use is not exclusive to the SNFC but could be carried out by any race organiser be that federation or club with the same outcome, disqualification, should a breach of the SHU rules be found. A lot of members have voiced there personal opinions on what they think the rules should be which they are entitled to do and where this is good and all adds to this debate, however, should a case ever be raised that ends up in front of a race organiser committee then personal views on the rules will have no influence on the decision making process as any judgement or decision made will be based on the SHU rules as they currently stand, that's what rules are for, they are there to protect all members from any malpractice and to ensure fairness, this applies to all rules which govern our sport, not only ETS. As I said above I posted this topic to raise awareness where with approx 4,500 views and 110 replies I have achieved what I wanted to do as every member who has read this thread now has a better understanding of what the current rules are and the possible consequences should anyone be found to be timing birds that don't comply with them. Dont allow yourself to be the person who gets an unannounced visit and falls foul of these rules as any blame in respect of this would be of your own making and lie with you and you only, enjoy your 2016 season where I wish you all the best of luck

1967, I agree the current SHU rules are very loose regards location of pads / timing arrivals and are open to interpretation, but sure as eggs as eggs, sooner or later some clown will fall foul of them and get disqualified, I just hope it's not you

Upsndoons,I have seen many trapping systems where a pad could be disconnected from either inside or outside the loft, for example a Sputnik trap. Here's a thought for you , if a sensor was fixed to the underside / inside face of the roof or landing board of a veranda then it would definitely be located inside the loft, however it would also allow birds to be timed that walked across the pad on the outside of the loft where they are clearly still outside the loft and would not comply with the current rules

Walter, whilst I don't disagree with much of what you have written your view that " when a bird is home it's home it's as simple as that no matter where the ETS pad is ". Is your own personal opinion which I have some empathy with, whilst I understand that pigeon racing is inherently unfair for various reasons the rules which govern all timing systems are their to protect the fancy at large by ensuring no malpractice and that the playing field is as level as it can be for all competitors, no matter what method of timing pigeons they use, having read through all of the posts on this thread then my view is that John Quinn's interpretation of the rules which currently apply to timing arrivals with ETS are likely to be accurate, i.e. that the pad must be located within the loft or trapping system and the bird must breach the threshold / entrance to loft to record it's arrival in compliance with the rules as they currently stand, however should the pad be unwittingly or deliberately positioned so that arrival of a bird can be recorded whilst the bird s still outside and has not entered the loft or trapping system then this Is contrary to rules as they currently stand where this could lead to disqualification should the pad / trapping system be inspected by an official of the race organiser, for me this would be an absolute travesty given that a bird may have grafted for lets say 15 hours to reach home

Walter, Stevie, Jimmy If you are implying that I am anti ETS then nothing could be further from the truth', I actually think it is single most progressive introduction to the doo game that I have seen in almost 50 years in the sport' currently I use a T3 to time arrivals ' this is my choice for which I have my own reasons, I am simply trying to establish what the rules are regards timing arrivals with ETS and if the rules are being abused or broken' this concern is not dedicated to fanciers who time in by the conventional method of using a clock, it should concern all fanciers, ETS users included FYI, I do have a Unikon ETS system and have this for for perhaps 8 years but have only used it during one YB season just to see how it worked' so absolutely no nonsense in this statement it's an absolute fact You should also ask yourself why the SNFC posted a statement relating to this on there WEB site'. This to me would suggest that a matter has raised with the committee that caused enough concern to warrant this' or perhaps you think that the SNFC were just releasing a timely reminder !!

That's nonsense, I have a Unikon ETS system but currently prefer to time in to a T3

Guys I put this post up to provoke some thoughts and create debate so keep your thoughts coming, this has nothing to do with the old potato about the advantages / disadvantages of ETS vs conventional timing, I understand and accept all of that', it's about birds being timed before they have crossed the threshold / entrance to the loft i.e. Standing on a landing board, I will try to post up a few scenarios later

I see on the SNFC website a message dated Feb 2016 stating " in accordance with SHU rules members are reminded that ETS systems MUST be located within the loft " ( ETS rule 2 ) and " that random checks may be carried out that could lead to disqualification " ( ETS rule 8 ) From what I have heard on the grapevine it would appear that birds are being timed in when they are still outside the loft and that this could be happening every Saturday throughout the season in Scotland. SHU ETS rule No 9 states " ETS can only record the arrival time after the pigeon has entered the loft " for me this means that the pigeon must be contained, captive, or trapped, within the confines of the loft or trapping system before it's arrival can be recorded. As a member who still times in with a T3 I have no axe to grind with fanciers using ETS with the proviso that these systems are being used to comply with the above SHU rules, however if arrivals are being recorded whilst the bird is still outside the loft then that for me is a concern. Interested to see what the members thoughts are on this

Derek Remember the first red as being a bit oh rubbish, if you want I will do you a turn and take it of your hands and dae away wae it for you

That's a load ah P*** Lol

Love to see it happen which would make absolute sense but some of the bitter old diehards will probably put the mockers on it

Robert The blue standing in front of the red eye chec pied looks like a bit of rubbish, if you want I will do you a favour and take it off your hands and get rid of it for you ! Lol

Used this stuff a few years Back and it came with a very small spoon in the tub' maybe 1/4 the size of a tea spoon or less

Thought Lanarkshire were at Carentan that weekend

Don't forget yer dabber