going back to the first post ,," the frog" it is strange what fanciers will think ,,,on a panel years ago ,or rather after the quiz,, a fancier came up to me quite gennuinly said [half jugged ;D] i know your secret jimmy , but i wont tell anyone,, i asked what on earth it was , and touching his nose on the side with one finger, he whispered ,",you put water in your minerals "when i asked who on earth told you that,, then it came out , one of my clubmates told him,,,,i had simply left the black minerals out while cleaning the loft, and it rained during the night,,, that clubmate gennuinly thought that was the secret ;D ;D ;D true