Don't kid yersel John, in the past,if somebody threatened a law suit the SHU and SNFC would sh ite themselves, can you not remember Gibson dictating everything even though everybody knew what he was up to. He threatened the SNFC and SHU with legal action to stop the investigation AND THEY FOLDED LIKE SPINELESS .....I agree the pad should deffo be behind the threshold of the loft but some specific ETS traps do not entirely allow for this and this is where the problems arise. eg.A sputnik is in front of the loft and to some, not behind the threshold of the loft.I don't see a problem with these traps but I don't know if everyone would think the same, hence me saying earlier that this topic is a can of worms.