Roland

Nah... Too many 'Do - Gooders' taking pot shots already without adding fuel to their so called 'Cause'.!

There is nothing hardly natural in racing pigeons full stop. Indeed the Father of the Jansenn brothers wouldn't allow the 'Unnatural' practise of widowerhood like many others. But that is a can of worms best left unopened.

Yes I knew that Sammy thanks mate... and knew that some animals will eat trapped anials... but was suprised a mite like. Shouldn't have been really on reflection I suppose.

I just read an interesting article on the NPO forum about ecoli and a sure cure for it. The article states: as soon as you see some birds vomiting, you give them 7 drops of ( never heard of this product before), maybe available in drug store or health food store, over 500 grams of their feed, and that is suppose to be the cure. It also states the many medicinal benefits of the product, maybe worth a try. Perhaps someone can give us some more info on this product?

Lol it should have read: the reason is that to day I found in the trap a mouse that had had it shoulder, neck etc. eaten away. I knew it wasn't a rat for there wouldn't be any mice in the trap... they don't mix as rat eat them...

No not wrong... just not accurate If I said that Widowerhood was just 'Keeping the sexes apart, show them to each other before basketing them then you would say that I wasn't right. Indeed widowerhoods will fly just as well to the 'Nest Bowl, or there nest box, so in reality it isn't necessarily correct to show their mates.... indeed why bother witha round -a - bout system if that works, for it will work even better with hens than cock birds... So firstly I appoligise Wiley for how it came across for I wasn't having a dig, I just thought that the basis needed a little more than what was given.

Mind personally I would only want to know what it is, and WHY.... then mostly it will prove to be not up to scratch... some are of course, but most unlikely.

And the reason I research this ... http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw03/0224housemice.htm Is to day I found in the trap a mouse hat had had it shouler etc. etean away. Knew it was a rat or there wouldn't be any mice in the trap... they don't mix as rat eat them...

Don't bother live trapping mice. They'll come back the next day! Read this report on the amazing navigational instinct of mice. http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/mus_musc.htm An excellent non commercial web site. Good descriptions and photos of the house mouse and numerous other mammals. http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/askext/wildpest/322.htm Rodent control tips from the University of North Dakota. http://pestcontrolcanada.com/rodents.htm Canibalism http://ladywildlife.com/animal/cannibalisminanimals.html

Behave yerself, nothing like. Yes mine used to stay together all year round. But it is allowing 'Nature' the oppotunity to 'Condition your birds and settling them for the chosen races. Much forethought and planning has to go into it. Moreover a readily made system that can be quickly changed. Obviously they carry the first basic instinc, and that is the all important 'Contentment'. A nature 'Jealousy' is operated which EVERY motivation has t o have, at least in part. A equal hen will alway beat a Cock bird on the distance and hard days. Likewise now, good natural flyers are excelling against their counter parts on 'Widowerhood'. And this sems more so as fanciers are getting a better understanding of utalising the system. Open hole is great where it is possible, but not neccesary for the results one wishes to achieve or maintain.

Great Start that. Lets hope that contributors stick to the main themes and basics.

And if y/b's you can race them this coming y/b season. Egg or young in May will fly all the way... But June really plays the tune. Indeed any June bred bird will take all the beatng!

Well done Jimmy... will send Alf round to give you a cuddle like lol... but am pleased to see you have done all three of you a good turn!

Now that cucumber is built to raise a gallop, a cumcumcumber really lol

This young fella is barely 6 weeks and acting like James Dean. _________________

Yep... need only to let out and feed in... take up the road etc.

Yep, to condition them is mainly on what System. But feed protien till Monday, then add Carbs till Wednesday and then Carbs only. Obviously when distance is here you start earlier. Work, Play and then rest. These in that order with proper feeding I'd say. Hen sitting tight needs to be foced to exercise a mite...20 - 50 mile chucks then Cock birds made to sit a mite longer whilst hen relaxes... regardless of system.

So aptley put Darren.... wished I'd read that first lol.

If any one cares to see my posts I state that yearlings are more than capable of winning upto 500 miles, especially with sun on their back. Prince Jackson was getting yearling regularly from the 1000 miles. My main point is simple that yearling are apt to catch a cold in cold wins.... and many then are no good later on ... Also remember well a tough 450 miler when I first starter, where a yearling belted home in the pour non stop rain, and won Fed to boot, indeed only 7 home on day. Ernie Wilson, a wiley ole flyer said.... 'He'll lose that nigh first race next season, that's if he still has it ...' How right he was. Should have had a year out...

I believe that to many are RUIN as to lost, but then too many are lost because they think it is te right think to do.... Just look at the seasoned pro's and what he is sending, listen to his excuses, normally haven't had time ... so just sending a couple of ole troopers.... Means he wants a hand in the averages, wants the earlings for the Sun on back days of 250 - 450 milers, and has in the mean time rested the ones that should do the buisness on hard days and the distance. JMI As every one pays the prices and rolls his own dice. But if you can't fford the price, don't roll the dice. I have basically 12 yearlings, and 9 old birds for a team, 3 6 year olds, admitted it is ample, Some ( 3 two year olds to be tosed let alone raced yet) 2 two year olds had their first race Saturday last, not trained or raced as y/b's or yearlings. so I hope them 4/5 will show up well, from their breeding I have high hopes. 4 3 or 4 year olds. Was three minutes behind the winners, but they had had only 2 tosses before their first race ever! I now have 18 - 20 y/b's, 2 14 day old ones to be taken away this week. I have 10 pair of Delbar stok birds, so may well be overstocked next season, or at seasons end ... and I do like to breed a round of latebreds... for 18 months down the line. Yes I have ample room, and as a natural flyer mainly the time. But I believe one never does justice to their birds when there are too many, also one misses their talking to you when roof hopping. To be observant and do them justice, one should only need the glances, not peeringly looking and missing. JMO

So!!!? seems you are only interested in wining short and middle distance ... I know, you are going to say that they aen't distance birds, and may I ask you these couple of things then Carl 'If the yearlings are hammering the old birds, doesn't it follow that the old birds aren't so good because they were hammered as yearlings.... Then why do you bother to feed and train and race old boys, surely you are wasting your time and money with them, especially as you know the yearlings are going to hammer them'!

Any way the youngsters are now down on straw, Can't get any hemp stalks near here ... have to travel 50 miles for it, so will wait and order it and go when I need to toss some birds. Any way, pigeon keeping / racing isn't a rocket science. It is realistic commonsence and observation. Widowerhood.... think of the 19 year old virgin with a car and high hopes... even if the car is off the road. We are fortunate enough on here to have a very good and knowledgeable fancier.... His cripe is the Names and them not being able to tell where the holy grail is! There ent one, and that is why they can't tell him! Now when one becomes fit, one must allow the freedom and time for them to do this them selfs. Then they can strart training to get fitter. The fitter they are the more natural motivation they get, regardless of what we think helps. Sure the little bits help... but really only help us to listen to what they are telling us. When they have thier make up on, and wink at you, they will take all the beating! When tey haven't, then the only reason to send is for you own reasons whatever they may be!

Have to paint the peches, and get he young birds into their loft now. We 'Walk the back and forth from the sections as they are too old really, some nearly 20 days. But will basket train on rooks over looking loft for a couple of days.

Well I firmly believe that 90% of pigeons have the ability to 'Home', especially when not bred from too closely related parents. We take a 'Natural' product and try to improve, or 'Hone in' a certain prespective. Any and all senses can only be sharpened with 'Fitness and health'. When I was boxing my father use to drill into me 'Fit men train to get fitter'. Must admit this took some understanding, as I thought that plenty of protiens and exercise was sufficence. Indeed once besides the £2 50 the 'Ole Timers' fought for, they cherished the steak moreso. Indeed the family relished it. But I - fortunately - had a mother that wouldn't adhere to raw eggs, and Cheese, chicken and a luttace Club's doctor subscribed to. It was 'He is big enough and ugly enough to run, and likes his chips etc. and that will do him;.... of course costs never entered her head lol. But protien is essentially a repairing and healing conmodity that builds up muscles. It has nothing to do with the actually stamina, of speed, but is needed. Many fail to see, and understand that a Good protien legume may well also be very high on carbs. Too much protien is dangerous as it can quickly turn to toxin A bad blood dsorder. Barly is for instance a natural blood purifyer. Hence the quicker anything is digested the quicker it is of use. The cleaner the blod, airways the healthier and better the pigeon. The main thing we have to be aware of is 'What we have in mind for the bird in the coming days'. Fitness / Health and condition are all part and partial of the same thing. Yes a right mental attitude can only be acheived with the right weight, as it has to balance. So of course in a naryral wide birds develope their traints that augers well for all and any needs that are needed. Likewise in the loft, regardless of the system and what it may entail. Regularity is of importance for instance. But I aintain that the first and everlasting thing of importance is contentment. Then a feeling of belonging in a safe inviorment. This places into place the wanting to be 'Home'. A feeling of freedom is also very relvant. Indeed the above two means that breaking birds is easy when cheived ... as long as the bird is let loose within three days. No mateter how many times done and retrieved, this is a must if the bird o a hardish race come to your loft first. Now how to aquire loft fitness and to go onto the next stages to get 'Superform'. Also how to keep birds at 95% fitness and get the extra 5% when needed. This 5% is the main difference between 1st and 10th place.

If the reality is that one feel that yearlings need expierence and training, sure - and as most have raced them as y/b's, - that from the come back races in Good weather would more than suffice. That have already had expierence and just now need a little aforethought surely.