RPRA

[Tony C]

The way I see it Fifer is that clubs are members of a fed not individuals. The club then submits a list of their members that wish to compete in the said fed for the coming season. If for example the club has its AGM after the feds AGM and vote to fly in another fed the club remains a member of the fed but not the club members.  :-/

[johno]

which entity if any is liable. the club or the members of the club. if all the members resign from the club at a club agm after the fed agm what is the position then.

[Tony C]

The clubs are 'the members' of the fed. There may be a fee that the clubs have to pay to the fed to be a member, just as I have to pay a fee to my club to be a member. If the club doesn't resign before the AGM the club has to pay it's club membership fee for the forthcoming year, if the club has no members this fee is still due.

This is the way I understand it but could be wrong.

[THE FIFER]

but if they didn't resign and didn't pay fees or rings then what???? and would any club or fed in this situation just say, ah well let them fly their birds?????

 

thanks for the answers and in a discussional way,

[johno]

when the rpra took on the scottish members in question there was no common agreement in place regarding suspendedd members between different unions. also everything was open. all rpra procedures were followed to the letter. there were and still are serious questions being raised as to the way in which the shu allegedly followed their own procedures. the shu have never beeen willing to have an outside review of the whole matter. why i dont know. i do know that many people feel that the refusal to put all the cards on the table points people in one direction only.

[Guest]

My [short] experience is that everything is done at club level. Starting at the beginning of the process - joining - when my application to join Laurieston club was accepted, I became a member of three organisations, my club, the federation that my club was affiliated to [scottish North West] and the Union my Fed was affiliated to [scottish Homing Union]. I pay 3 seperate sets of membership fees, and I have three seperate membership numbers. All these fees are paid to my club once per year, after the club AGM, when club fees are agreed for the following year.

 

If I give up pigeons, or decide to leave Laurieston club, I know that I have to inform the Secretary in writing, before the AGM. The Secretary then informs the Fed and the SHU.

 

If I leave after the club AGM, I know that I am liable for the following year's membership fees to the club, fed and union, and if I have ordered rings, I am liable for that money too. If I don't pay up, I risk being debt suspended by the club secretary who will attempt to recover the money from me first before suspending me and reporting the suspension to the Fed and the SHU.

 

Now I am fairly new to pigeons yet I know these 'procedural rules'. I find it pretty amazing that some people appear not to know them, especially the ones who claim membership of the RPRA came before the debt suspension in the SHU. Of course it did, because these individuals sought membership of one without at the same time giving up membership of the other, before the club AGM, became liable for the next year's fees, didn't pay up, and were debt suspended.

 

 

[Tony C]

If you belong to a club that's in 2 feds (fed A & fed and you only wish to race in fed A and have no intentions of racing or nominating pigeons in fed B, do you have to pay fee's to be a member of fed B ?

[Pompey Mick]

Tony,

It depends on the Club's rules, When my Club flew in two Feds our rule was that Members ' CAN compete in either Fed' giving members a choice, in another local Club their rules state that members 'MUST' belong to both Feds.

The RPRA state that the Club is the member of a Fed, but then the Fed levies fees on a  membership  basis to the Club, thereby making individual members the 'Members', very confusing.

[Guest]

Have i got this right what you are saying bruno they became RPRA members before they were suspended by the SHU which i suppose technically means they are not in debt to the RPRA and can fly under them makes me feel even more that the unions should work together with their rules and have some understanding between themselves  

 

 

They were still SHU members when they applied to join the RPRA. When they became members of the RPRA, they did not resign from the SHU, nor did they pay their membership for that year. They subsequently became debt suspended from the SHU for non payment of membership fees, ring money etc that they were liable for in that year, but they are fully paid-up members of the RPRA.

 

Part of the 'sham' was attempting to float club membership of any Union [for the SNFC anyway]. First of all the vote for change was supposedly 'won' using straight majority, when in fact this constitution change required a clear 2/3 majority; when that was pointed out at the meeting, the 'status quo' decision was declared 'undemocratic'. Some of them even said so in letters to the BHW 'a sad day for democracy'. Sad indeed.

 

My use of 'sham': As you infer Rose, Unions don't have the same rules.  A club cannot have two masters when each applies rules which differ. We can't get agreement when one set of rules applies, I can't begin to imagine the problems two opposing sets of rules would create. Hence my use of 'sham'.

 

 

[square_peg]

It seems odd way of going about things to me but i suppose if its two seperate unions they can do what they want i presume by what you are saying that the RPRA would except anyone whatever they had been banned for  :-/

 

THATS ABOUT RIGHT ROSE

I APOLIGISE FOR SOME OF LAST NIGHTS POSTS,I GOT A WEE BIT CAUGHT UP IN SOME OF THE OTHER POSTS.WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS ,SOME FANCIERS IN MY AREA ATTENDED OUR FED AGM,TOOK PART IN THE MEETING ,IE,DISCUSSING THE BALANCE SHEET ,VOTING ON THE ELECTION OF OFFICIALS ETC.

BUT ,AS SOON AS THERE PROPASAL FELL ,ALL WALKED OUT      WHOLE CLUBS RETURNED THERE (PRE-ORDERED RINGS) AND REFUSED TO PAY THERE SUBS.

SOME MEMBERS PAYED (SOME OF MY CLUB). TO ME THAT WAS THE HONOURABLE THING TO DO ,TO THESE FANCIERS ,I TAKE MY HAT OFF ,THE REST      WELL   >

[square_peg]

SOME OF MY FRIENDS ARE IN THE (TIN POT)NAT (ONE OF THEM WITH THE PROBABLY BEST PERFOMANCE IN SCOTLAND) I DONT CARE .BUT (FRIENDS) DUES ARE DUES ,PAY UP  SHUT UP WALK AWAY WITH YOUR HEAD HELD HIGH

AFTER ALL IS IT WURTH FALLING OUT OVER?

THE DOO GAME IS STRUGGLING   NOW MORE THAN EVER   THIS IS THE TIME TO ALL PULL ON THE SAME BIT OF ROPE

[Henrik]

What about organisations who allow what is technically a STRAY to be 2nd Open in its Gold Medal race?

[johno]

we are once again looking at a one sided debate. put all the paperwork on the table and let an independant body review all the issues. comments such as TIN POT NAT do nothing to encourage level headed debate. fanciers should be aware that more than fife members joined the rpra. the whole of south lanarkshire, glasgow, forth and clyde, part of midlothian, and a good number of other scottish fanciers left. the debt suspensed debate is the sham as someone else puts it. lets have an open review of the whole situation where all paperwork is on the table.

[gangster]

sorry to jump in ive read this post and my opinion for what its worth is all memembers of the club are in default as well as the club therefore none should be allowed to fly until subs are paid with the exeption of members who pay there fed subs through a 2nd club in the same fed....mick

[johno]

the rules of the rpra or shu are only applicable to their own membership. at the time there was no common agreement. there still is is not. on the point of technicalities the proposer of the rpra to membership of the confederation had no authority to do so. he was not representing anyone. the shu had two members at the meeting. the council of the shu had previously discussed the confederation meetings and decided they could only afford one. further rpra membership 40000 plus 1 rep. shu around 3000 how many reps. lets put all the paperwork on the table and have an independant review. it is the only way forward.

[square_peg]

JOHNO    JUST A WEE QUESTION  WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF A FELLOW CLUB MEMBER DIDNT PAY THERE DUES AFTER TAKING PART IN THE CLUB AGM?

[dandydoo]

ME its not about Fife Fed its about the CLUBS ...it was the CLUBS that debt suspended people who wrote to the FED who wrote to the SHU.

 

Would you have liked to have had to pay for those who left (Did not resign) rings, rubbers orders etc. These people knew they were going ...why order them ....why not just resign ? or NOW just pay the few quid ...simple.

 

I really dont have a problem with anything other than that cos it came from my pocket too :(. So these people can fly wherever they like and if you aint impressed dont read or make any more comments no-one forces you to read or respond ....

 

Or you could make a gesture and reimburse the members ...only a  suggestion :o Err what Fed you in ??????? thought not :P

[GREENGRASS]

I must say that if these are the facts that rings and other items were ordered and then not paid for i would have a lot of sympathy for those left to carry the cost. What i find totally unbelieveable is the SHU trying to take the high ground, how could any organisation who ignores its own rules and constitution whenever it suits them be taken seriuosly by any other. Until very recently the SHU thought so much of the confederation that they sent along an unelected offical. here is a question for BRUNO, SQUARE PEG, DANDYDOO, HENRICK, AND ANY OTHER WHO WISHES TO TRY AND OFFER A REPLY.

 

WHEN IT STATES IN YOUR FED RULE BOOK AND YOUR UNION RULE BOOK THAT ALL APPEALS MUST BE IN THE HANDS OF THE SECETARY NOT LATER THAN 14 DAYS AFTER RULING................WHEN WOULD AN APPEAL BECOME TIME BARRED......................................???

[Henrik]

Never mind that Greengrass you as a member of the organisation referrred to above what do you think of awarding a man with 2nd open when the pigeon does not belong to him. I would think that the rules are  the same for SHU & RPRA that the bird needs to be transferred for 14 days before you can race or show it. Well up until 2 wks ago the pigeon of P Virtues that was 2nd open snrpc was still registered to the Late John Fairbairn.

[GREENGRASS]

have i asked a difficult question here henrik, as too the question you asked i am fully aware of the alleged situation but unlike you i have all the facts and not just the gossip. "never mind that" is this your union policy.....

 

 

[Henrik]

The answer to your Question would seem to be after 14 days. As for any other facts regarding the Stray 2nd open it is still registered to John and this is not an allegation it is a fact.

[GREENGRASS]

Henrik firstly what would you say to an appeal being heard when the appeal letter was weeks late, contained the wrong info and was not addressed to the correct people, not even a registered letter. but as i say it all depends on who you know. surely one rule for all is it not.

 

Secondly i am not sure if you are trying to have a pop at the SNRPC, Peter Virtue or the late John Fairbrain, but to drag a deceased man into your futile attempt at a slur shows the desperation of your plight. You posted numerous untruths on here stating that SNRPC members had to be members of the RPRA .....not true.

 

Did the SHU refuse to transfer rings for "certain people" earlier this year.

 

I can also assure you that Peters bird was checked and all above board.

[me]

"ME its not about Fife Fed its about the CLUBS ...it was the CLUBS that debt suspended people who wrote to the FED who wrote to the SHU. "

 

no point in posting these things for me Dandydoo/Fifestay I have already decided not to take any notice of anything you put up after the misleading posts you put up when you were selling your doos.

[me]

"Part of the 'sham' was attempting to float club membership of any Union [for the SNFC anyway]. First of all the vote for change was supposedly 'won' using straight majority, when in fact this constitution change required a clear 2/3 majority; when that was pointed out at the meeting, the 'status quo' decision was declared 'undemocratic'" -Bruno

 

if this is supposed to relate the SNFC AGM Bruno you obviously were not there I was and your post amounts to complete fabrication somebody has obviously been feeding you this stuff but none of its true.

[Henrik]

Obviously Greengrass you like the rest are golng about with your RPRA tinted glasses on. John Fairbairn was a good friend of mine and I would never have a go at him didnt fall out when he was alive so wont when he cant answer. As for rings being transferred you cant transfer them when your suspended as Peter Virtue is so whoever done the checking needs to go back and do it again through the proper channels or maybe they dont want to pay the 10p fee to the SHU for verification. Thats my last word on this matter.