Southener Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm thinking of perhaps starting up again, but promised myself when I had to pack in that if ever I started again I wouldn't have hens going to waste just keeping them for the cocks. I flew regular widowhood with decent success but hated the hens not being used after their young bird year. I have been doing a lot of searching here for a system and have enjoyed reading the posts by Owen, Terry McCarthy and others but have a question or two. How does a celibacy system differ from roundabout? I know both cocks and hens are used for both systems obviously but am I right in thinking the roundabouts are paired and rear babies and the celibates do not? Can you send all the birds, both cocks and hens, to the same race? I have a few more questions but that will do for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Burgess Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 basically ,answer to both questions is YES and YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dava Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm thinking of perhaps starting up again, but promised myself when I had to pack in that if ever I started again I wouldn't have hens going to waste just keeping them for the cocks. I flew regular widowhood with decent success but hated the hens not being used after their young bird year. I have been doing a lot of searching here for a system and have enjoyed reading the posts by Owen, Terry McCarthy and others but have a question or two. How does a celibacy system differ from roundabout? I know both cocks and hens are used for both systems obviously but am I right in thinking the roundabouts are paired and rear babies and the celibates do not? Can you send all the birds, both cocks and hens, to the same race? I have a few more questions but that will do for now ive a team on roundabout that will just sit there nest out and wont rear any ybs once they start to lift from the eggs they will be split and go on to the round about system but you must stop the hens from pairing to one another or your wasting your time imo ive never tried racing them celibate ie not pairing them up at all i feel if you pair them up you will get longer out them but they dont have to rear a yb to be succesfull with them hope this helps oh and you can send both sexes every week up till 250 mls then send then alternative weeks if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southener Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Does the roundabout system fall down though when a cock gets home first from a race and finds no hen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Does the roundabout system fall down though when a cock gets home first from a race and finds no hen? Keep a couple of rank hens at home, these can be given to your first arrivals whatever the sex. As birds arrive juggle around into pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john cumming Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Does the roundabout system fall down though when a cock gets home first from a race and finds no hen? ve never had that yet, if the hens away temp him with another hen?? works for me keeps the cocks keen to either re-pair or guard the box john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Reid Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 ive a team on roundabout that will just sit there nest out and wont rear any ybs once they start to lift from the eggs they will be split and go on to the round about system but you must stop the hens from pairing to one another or your wasting your time imo ive never tried racing them celibate ie not pairing them up at all i feel if you pair them up you will get longer out them but they dont have to rear a yb to be succesfull with them hope this helps oh and you can send both sexes every week up till 250 mls then send then alternative weeks if you wantGood advice from a top notch pigeon man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southener Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I may be wrong (probably) but celibate seems little different to standard young bird racing, in as much as the pigeons just race home to the loft rather than a partner - I realise they run together when home but there seems to be no bond the same as with a mate they have reared with. I had some nice results with young birds that paired but generally most didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Reid Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I may be wrong (probably) but celibate seems little different to standard young bird racing, in as much as the pigeons just race home to the loft rather than a partner - I realise they run together when home but there seems to be no bond the same as with a mate they have reared with. I had some nice results with young birds that paired but generally most didn't.Good to see you are going to get back into the doo game m8 if you need good advice you should pm walterboswell1159 or Dava from this site .top class doo men they will keep you right IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 thanks m8 me and davy is halfing yer checks in the post lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullcock Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Does the roundabout system fall down though when a cock gets home first from a race and finds no hen?My experience is in short races there isn't much time between the 1st and the majority of the birds, but when the 1st birds arrive any cock and any hen will run together happily until there own mates come home with no effect.When flying young birds on a similar system, we just reared them early in the year, encouraged them to pair up and go to nest, then split them up about two weeks before the 1st race, then every Friday we just let them run together for a while before basketing, with great results.I hope this is of some use to you, good luck and hope you do start back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 thanks m8 me and davy is halfing yer checks in the post loland my pm box is empty got a computer expert round to day to show me whats what only cost two bags of tic beans lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 A decision like this is purely down to how much time you are prepared to spend with your pigeons. Personally I want to win races regularly but I don't want to live at the loft. Besides, it is no good at all if you don't carry out your job properly.My system is all about cocks and no hens are involved at all. The last hen a celibate cock should see is his mother. The youngsters are raced separated but when they get back the sexes are mixed for a short time. There is no way I will let them pair up.The reason my birds win so much is because they fly like youngsters, high and at pace. They are not distracted by the thought of hens or youngsters. Although I do not race hens I reckon that they are valued because I only keep the ones that score as youngsters which is ideal for selecting early maturing birds that win as youngsters and throughout their lives.I don't like widowhood because the cocks soon get disappointed and loose form and the hens soon revert to lesbianism. And every widowhood flyer I know loses races because their birds fly around rather than drop in. I would never fly roundabout because whereas my cocks drop in in groups and frequently take many positions I don't see the roundabout people able to compete.At the end of the day I have kept things simple and I have a successful team of racers while not spending hours on end messing about with them. It suites me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southener Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 My experience is in short races there isn't much time between the 1st and the majority of the birds, but when the 1st birds arrive any cock and any hen will run together happily until there own mates come home with no effect.When flying young birds on a similar system, we just reared them early in the year, encouraged them to pair up and go to nest, then split them up about two weeks before the 1st race, then every Friday we just let them run together for a while before basketing, with great results.I hope this is of some use to you, good luck and hope you do start back up. Re the young birds. Does your club basket cocks and hens separate on race marking? My club used to have young birds all in together as a rule and generally a fanciers birds were given their own crate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dava Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 A decision like this is purely down to how much time you are prepared to spend with your pigeons. Personally I want to win races regularly but I don't want to live at the loft. Besides, it is no good at all if you don't carry out your job properly.My system is all about cocks and no hens are involved at all. The last hen a celibate cock should see is his mother. The youngsters are raced separated but when they get back the sexes are mixed for a short time. There is no way I will let them pair up.The reason my birds win so much is because they fly like youngsters, high and at pace. They are not distracted by the thought of hens or youngsters. Although I do not race hens I reckon that they are valued because I only keep the ones that score as youngsters which is ideal for selecting early maturing birds that win as youngsters and throughout their lives.I don't like widowhood because the cocks soon get disappointed and loose form and the hens soon revert to lesbianism. And every widowhood flyer I know loses races because their birds fly around rather than drop in. I would never fly roundabout because whereas my cocks drop in in groups and frequently take many positions I don't see the roundabout people able to compete.At the end of the day I have kept things simple and I have a successful team of racers while not spending hours on end messing about with them. It suites me.good post owen the only thing i would disagree on is there round about doos winning all over the uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southener Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 A decision like this is purely down to how much time you are prepared to spend with your pigeons. Personally I want to win races regularly but I don't want to live at the loft. Besides, it is no good at all if you don't carry out your job properly.My system is all about cocks and no hens are involved at all. The last hen a celibate cock should see is his mother. The youngsters are raced separated but when they get back the sexes are mixed for a short time. There is no way I will let them pair up.The reason my birds win so much is because they fly like youngsters, high and at pace. They are not distracted by the thought of hens or youngsters. Although I do not race hens I reckon that they are valued because I only keep the ones that score as youngsters which is ideal for selecting early maturing birds that win as youngsters and throughout their lives.I don't like widowhood because the cocks soon get disappointed and loose form and the hens soon revert to lesbianism. And every widowhood flyer I know loses races because their birds fly around rather than drop in. I would never fly roundabout because whereas my cocks drop in in groups and frequently take many positions I don't see the roundabout people able to compete.At the end of the day I have kept things simple and I have a successful team of racers while not spending hours on end messing about with them. It suites me. Many thanks for a valuable post. I am fortunate to have time available but like yourself don't want to become a slave to the loft and spend unnecessary time with the birds rather than the wife Could I ask how you start the young cocks on your celibate system - do you just add your selections to the old bird section or do you have a section just for the yearlings? Do your sections have regular nest boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 A decision like this is purely down to how much time you are prepared to spend with your pigeons. Personally I want to win races regularly but I don't want to live at the loft. Besides, it is no good at all if you don't carry out your job properly.My system is all about cocks and no hens are involved at all. The last hen a celibate cock should see is his mother. The youngsters are raced separated but when they get back the sexes are mixed for a short time. There is no way I will let them pair up.The reason my birds win so much is because they fly like youngsters, high and at pace. They are not distracted by the thought of hens or youngsters. Although I do not race hens I reckon that they are valued because I only keep the ones that score as youngsters which is ideal for selecting early maturing birds that win as youngsters and throughout their lives.I don't like widowhood because the cocks soon get disappointed and loose form and the hens soon revert to lesbianism. And every widowhood flyer I know loses races because their birds fly around rather than drop in. I would never fly roundabout because whereas my cocks drop in in groups and frequently take many positions I don't see the roundabout people able to compete.At the end of the day I have kept things simple and I have a successful team of racers while not spending hours on end messing about with them. It suites me.i like the sound of this owen how many cocksdo you race and how far m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Reid Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 i like the sound of this owen how many cocksdo you race and how far m8Don't tell him Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I race about 22 cocks 15 older birds and 7 yearlings. The tough bit is that each year I have to reduce the youngsters by selecting them from their young bird performances before I add them to the team. It is the same with the hens because if I did not cull them I would be overrun with them. The good side of all this is that both my cocks and the hens I breed with have done well racing. The fact that my cocks win a lot has helped me to develop a very exciting team.I have never bothered with nest boxes up until this year when I have introduced nest boxes for the first time to see what will happen. Unfortunately due to the fact I have been in hospital and have been quite ill since I might not be able to race my birds. If I do not have the chance to race my Old Birds I will probably sell the older ones off at the end of the year and carry on with the yearlings with this years youngsters added to the team.In regard to the success of racing roundabout pigeons. To be honest, I have no views on it really. All I know is that we have people locally that use this system and some of them are poor at winning races in spite of the fact that they live at the pigeon loft. I think that a lot of Fanciers think that the more pigeons they send the better their chances of winning. I think the opposite because I think that it is quality pigeons that win the most races. There have been times when I have sent something like 12 or so youngsters to a race against really big team people and won multiple positions. Probably the biggest problem for some people is not so much the system they fly but the quality of birds they use to breed. If you breed from non-winners you are very likely to breed more of the same. It is the same with birds bought in because most of them have done nothing to show they can win races, yet people still spend big money on them. To me the trick with winning races is easy. Buy some youngsters, train them well and race them. Select the best and dump the rest. The following year do the same until you have a nice group of winning birds which will put you on the road becoming a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 thanks owen makes sence to me but will they go every week and race the distance 500 to 6oo miles or do you not go that far also how is your returns at the end of season as i know that with widowhood the loses can be heavy is your returns better on your method thankyou for taking the time to anser m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 thanks owen makes sence to me but will they go every week and race the distance 500 to 6oo miles or do you not go that far also how is your returns at the end of season as i know that with widowhood the loses can be heavy is your returns better on your method thankyou for taking the time to anser m8ps i hope you get well enough to race them the way you want to m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullcock Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Re the young birds. Does your club basket cocks and hens separate on race marking? My club used to have young birds all in together as a rule and generally a fanciers birds were given their own crate.Yes cocks and hens should be basketed separately,in all my years in this sport this has been the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holmsidelofts Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 thanks owen makes sence to me but will they go every week and race the distance 500 to 6oo miles or do you not go that far also how is your returns at the end of season as i know that with widowhood the loses can be heavy is your returns better on your method thankyou for taking the time to anser m8Owen only currently races up to 200 miles as he likes the sprint so i think i would be difficult for him to give you an answer on the 500 - 600 mile races, you are always going to get more losses when you hit the 500 plus races regardless of what system you use. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 WalterI am an out and out sprint racer so I do not send across the pond at all generally. My pigeons go to all the available races both as Old Birds and as Young Birds. Other people have had my birds and have won races from over the water. One of them was 2nd National this year. And one of my youngsters scored from Carentan winning the Noms this year. My losses are generally very low indeed. I put this down to three things. 1) I have square holes cut into the front of the loft which double as loading facilities but I keep crates attached with drinkers on them and remove the normal drinkers from the loft. The birds are forced to drink from the crates from a very early age which makes them very well basket trained. 2)I road train repeatedly from first6 miles and then 10 miles. When the birds are doing at least 60 mph from the 6 miles I will pick a day and train anything up to 6 times in the one day. The birds trap to trapping mix and when I get there I crate them and off to go again. The advantage of this is that the birds get fed up with it all and they are a bit hungry so they absolutely tear up this valley at great speed and take the shortest route which helps me to win those tight races. When you read this last bit you need to know that I live in a poor location and people used to reckon that I could not win sprint races. I won 36 Fed cards last year my Section and Runner Up for the full Fed. 3)Due to the fact that my losses are very low and that I do not fly hens after they are youngsters I always have to reduce my hens after each season. Naturally I have ended up with some very good hens judging by their Young Bird performances. This helps me to select for early maturity. It is very similar with the cocks. I always have young cocks surplus at the end of the season so again I select on the basis of Young Bird performances initially followed selection of my Old Cocks at the 2 year old stage. The reason for the 2 year old stage is that providing the Cock has performed well as a youngster I will make allowances when they are yearlings but my ideal is that they should win at all ages.So to summarise I have very low losses due to road training, basket training and rigorous selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb- Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 thanks owen makes sence to me but will they go every week and race the distance 500 to 6oo miles or do you not go that far also how is your returns at the end of season as i know that with widowhood the loses can be heavy is your returns better on your method thankyou for taking the time to anser m8hi walter there was an article by owen on one of the federation web sites i think it was ayrshire web sie he races to the coast only which is 180 miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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