Eyesign

[Guest Owen]

Well Roger,

i promise you that I will never not answer any question you put to me as truthfully as I can. I hope you do not think that my views on eyes are in any way covering up what I really think and that I sneak about staring into pigeons' eyes to get an advantage over others.

I think that to be successful at pigeon racing you need to have a very good loft built to suit the pigeons and very good pigeons that have been developed to suit the type of racing you take part in. After that it is just a question of learning how to train pigeons properly and how to feed them for the job in hand.

None of this is easy and I reckon that there are no big secrets it is just attention to detail. It is a question of getting a lot of small things right which in the end add up to a big difference in terms of results. Messing about with these myths will only take you away from the important things you need to get right to gain success.

[Guest H@wkBait]

Of course you are correct Owen, The eye-sign theory has been mooted for years if there were any substance in it we would all be on it

Nonsense are we all on darkness? do we all fly widowhood? when you all buy pedigree theres a pic off the bird and a pic off the eye wonder why? The majority off people that dont believe in eye sign are most likely the ones too thick to understand it A bird thats eye moves back n forward in the socket helps keep the bird on a steady line aswell the secret to pigeons is in there eye! but they also need the rest off the makeup n birds with bad eyes win races because it may only be the good eye there lacking each to there own but the fact we dont understand pigeons in full anythings possible The secret of eyesign by s.w.e bishop is easy enough to understand

[Guest Owen]

H@wkbait,

I have found that people who accuse others of being "Thick" are usually bad mannered bullies. Are you one of those? As a matter fact I bought the SWE Bishop book when it first came out. I also bought into the idea that your birds should be fed beans in a hopper. I also built a loft with a roof of big 6 asbestos sheets and constructed the floor with glass fibre. It took a bit of time but I found out that the whole lot of it was a load of rubbish a bit like the opinions you wrote.

Breeding livestock is all about genetics and racing pigeons is all about training feeding and selection. If you doubt what I say take a look at my results because you might realise then that I must know something about the sport.

[Guest H@wkBait]

so ur right then owen? its not debatable? ok then ul b right

any proof its all a load off crap? n iv got the revised edition aswell how long did u study eyesign n what was ur findings?

[Guest Owen]

H@kBait,

I am quite willing to discuss and swap information with anyone at any time providing the conversation does not deteriorate into name calling and insults. I usually like those who want to insult me to be standing within in the same space so we can get the odds even.

In regard to eyesign. I studied eyesign for years and I thought I had understood the ideas behind it. I have discussed the subject at length with a Lecturer from Cardiff Uni (David Phillips) and with the Vets Graham Smith and David Parsons and plenty of pigeon flyers. I have looked at the eyes of livestock other than racing pigeons and at the eyes of fancy pigeons. After extensive study of the subject and a lot of years spent on it I came up with the following. The blood vessels at the back of the eye do show the age and health of creature under examination which includes man. However apart from being a sign of age and general health and obviously the condition of the eye itself there is no more useful information available for evaluating the quality of the pigeon. In regard to the eyesight of the individual concerned, this has limited bearing on the ability of the bird to fly fast or for long distances. You can read the experiments that have been conducted by by various Universities when they wanted to work out how homing instinct works.

The factors that really matter in regard to the quality of a racing pigeon are a bit like those of a race horse. They are out of sight and not available for examination. Amongst other things the heart and lungs are a vital part of the make up of any athlete. To some extent these things can be developed but there is clear evidence that many of the assets that make up the champion pigeons and for that matter race horses are a matter of genetics. In other words they are inherited.

One last thing. The livestock industry have always had a lot of myths and "Old wives tales", attached to it in spite of the fact that most of this rubbish has been disproved long ago by educated and trained scientists. The reason that I put my case is to try to expose the myths and to try to encourage people to become better at racing pigeons because we need people to be able to compete because unless they do they will quickly become disillusioned and walk away. My advice to you and anyone else who may read this is to breed from the best and test the progeny and then breed again and again always testing as you go. Then with a pinch of luck and a lot of work you could become a champion.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Well Roger,

i promise you that I will never not answer any question you put to me as truthfully as I can. I hope you do not think that my views on eyes are in any way covering up what I really think and that I sneak about staring into pigeons' eyes to get an advantage over others.

I think that to be successful at pigeon racing you need to have a very good loft built to suit the pigeons and very good pigeons that have been developed to suit the type of racing you take part in. After that it is just a question of learning how to train pigeons properly and how to feed them for the job in hand.

None of this is easy and I reckon that there are no big secrets it is just attention to detail. It is a question of getting a lot of small things right which in the end add up to a big difference in terms of results. Messing about with these myths will only take you away from the important things you need to get right to gain success.

 

I trust 100% that you are not a fan of the eyesign theory

 

All I was getting at is that we shouldn't believe everything we read or hear

[Guest Owen]

Roger,

I think we are in total agreement because I do not like to take anything at face value. Looking back I was like the majority of British Pigeon Fanciers once. I followed the advice published by the Gazette to the letter. My doubts came when I saw one of the best Pigeon Fanciers from this area feeding mixed chicken corn to his birds. This was a time when i could not win a race to save my life. My interest in the pigeons was, at the time, at a very low ebb because my first marriage was going badly wrong and the pigeons would soon have to go.

I think I had about 6 youngsters in the loft and I did not give them much attention due to the fact that I was working 12 hour shifts. I kept their trough topped up with mixed chicken corn and let them out very early every morning as I left the house for work and they could let themselves in through bob wires. People told me later that these few birds would fly for hours and often join up with other people's pigeons and as one lot dropped they would go off and join up with another lot.

The point of all this is that these birds did really well in the races and should have won even more than they did but they were terrible trappers because they would sometimes fly past and come back to the loft when it suited them. Then the penny dropped for me, especially when I handled the birds to find that they were light and firm and obviously very fit. So much for beans and the Old Hands theories. And that was the start of my doubts about much of what I had read. So after that things have to make sense and I will try things that are often thought to be wrong. One example is that widowhood cocks should be mated and the hen should be used to create motivation. Well that's wrong because my cocks have never mated with a hen and I never use hens as motivators. In spite of that my 15 cocks are fantastic individually and helped me to win the Fed Section Averages again this year. So yet another stupid rule is broken and proven to be another of those myths.

[holmsidelofts]

I have to totally agree with owen on this one guys. Im not a thick person, infact im a fairly well educated person who has been involved in the sport for over 30 years since i was around 8 years or so old, i have had the opportunity of the years to handle some of the best pigeons in the world and have had long converstions with some of the best fanciers in the uk and europe, i too spent a few years believing in theories and thinking that you could win races by buying certain products or following certain theories but it all a load of bull. Genetics decides what a bird is capable of and has no connection with eyesign, if you could determine the abilities of a bird by looking into its eyes we would all be champions, the crux of it all is the only way to physically see if a bird can race well is to race it, and to see if it breeds winners is to breed from it, there is no other way. I have handle birds of all shapes, sizes, colours etc that were world class pigeons and you know what they were all different, none of them conformed to any of theses so call theories and were champions because they had been tested and raced to the best of there abilities.

 

My advice woud be to spend more time testing and trying the birds, weeding out the crap, and all birds regardless of where they come from will breed crap and thats a fact, and spend less time looking at things you have no control over.

 

Good birds in a good well managed loft that are healthy and well tested is the way to produce winners. Leave the eyesign to the believers, because until it is scientifically proven it will always remain a theory.

If you cant measure your success by looking into an eye you have no way of proving that it was the eyesign that was responsible for the birds success.

 

We are the only sport i know of that have these fads and theories. The horse world would if there was any truth in eysign be all over it like a rash because there are millions at stake in that sport, but they dont, there selection is all based around the horses ability to race and produce winners through selective breeding and genetics and nothing else, there are no short cuts.

 

Jas

[dal2]

I have to totally agree with owen on this one guys. Im not a thick person, infact im a fairly well educated person who has been involved in the sport for over 30 years since i was around 8 years or so old, i have had the opportunity of the years to handle some of the best pigeons in the world and have had long converstions with some of the best fanciers in the uk and europe, i too spent a few years believing in theories and thinking that you could win races by buying certain products or following certain theories but it all a load of bull. Genetics decides what a bird is capable of and has no connection with eyesign, if you could determine the abilities of a bird by looking into its eyes we would all be champions, the crux of it all is the only way to physically see if a bird can race well is to race it, and to see if it breeds winners is to breed from it, there is no other way. I have handle birds of all shapes, sizes, colours etc that were world class pigeons and you know what they were all different, none of them conformed to any of theses so call theories and were champions because they had been tested and raced to the best of there abilities.

 

My advice woud be to spend more time testing and trying the birds, weeding out the crap, and all birds regardless of where they come from will breed crap and thats a fact, and spend less time looking at things you have no control over.

 

Good birds in a good well managed loft that are healthy and well tested is the way to produce winners. Leave the eyesign to the believers, because until it is scientifically proven it will always remain a theory.

If you cant measure your success by looking into an eye you have no way of proving that it was the eyesign that was responsible for the birds success.

 

We are the only sport i know of that have these fads and theories. The horse world would if there was any truth in eysign be all over it like a rash because there are millions at stake in that sport, but they dont, there selection is all based around the horses ability to race and produce winners through selective breeding and genetics and nothing else, there are no short cuts.

 

Jas

 

 

Think you and Owen miss the point a wee bit! Eyesign used properly can be a great asset in YOUR team!!! You know the traits(or you will) of YOUR family. You can feel this in the handling, you can see this in the colour and you cane see it in the EYE?? Thats wot its used for!! Not going around telling good from bad looking in the eye without knowing the history? JMO

[geordie1234]

Very interesting thread and some great posts

[demolition man]

Don't worry lads i'm going down to see Owen i shall pick all his top birds out on eyesign alone. Long as he makes me a cuppa tea. See you in a few weeks owen eyesign glass and martin :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[Guest Owen]

Bernie,

I think you are being unfair now. I have saved up and bought teabags for you and Martin and now you are going to abuse my good nature. Shame on you.

Seriously though, you are welcome to examine my birds if you like and if you want to publish what you find on here I will grit my teeth and co-operate.

[demolition man]

Bernie,

I think you are being unfair now. I have saved up and bought teabags for you and Martin and now you are going to abuse my good nature. Shame on you.

Seriously though, you are welcome to examine my birds if you like and if you want to publish what you find on here I will grit my teeth and co-operate.

 

 

Owen

 

Remind me to tell you a true story about an eyesign video I watched 24 years ago, which feature Human eyes which showed Intelligent, murders, sport people,Your know why I remember it was 24 years once you here the story.

 

Regards Bernie

[holmsidelofts]

Think you and Owen miss the point a wee bit! Eyesign used properly can be a great asset in YOUR team!!! You know the traits(or you will) of YOUR family. You can feel this in the handling, you can see this in the colour and you cane see it in the EYE?? Thats wot its used for!! Not going around telling good from bad looking in the eye without knowing the history? JMO

 

Sorry mate i have to disagree, traits tell you nothing, just because a bird handles a certain way or i a certain colour, or may behaves a certain way or has a Particular eye doesnt mean it will do any good, i have kept pigeons for 30 years and have had birds of all shape, colours etc and they have all handled differently be winners,, if i was to rely on outward appear i would have one thing in my loft and that would be pretty pigeon and nothing else.

Until you can show me scientific proof that there a link then i will alway disagree, eyesign has been around for years and theres still no proof that it no more than a theory the same as throat theory and wing theory, i am not putting people down if thats what they want to believe but i have learnt the hard way myself and believed in theories and potions to win but ultimately its the basket that is the true theory that works, they either win or they dont. If people spent more time on actually racing and testing the birds they have they would get quicker results than putting here trust in something unproven. I think the reason why me and owen are saying what we do is through learning the hard way. Racing pigeons i hard enough for new starters especially, but if they get tied up in debates that will only lead to disappointment, we will end up loosing the future of sport, its the 21st century lets move way from the past and concentrate on doing what we suppose to do and thats racing.

Jas

[adam owen]

jas

 

ive known you all my life and ive never had you down as educated what ever gave you this idea ha ha ha

[dal2]

Sorry mate i have to disagree, traits tell you nothing, just because a bird handles a certain way or i a certain colour, or may behaves a certain way or has a Particular eye doesnt mean it will do any good, i have kept pigeons for 30 years and have had birds of all shape, colours etc and they have all handled differently be winners,, if i was to rely on outward appear i would have one thing in my loft and that would be pretty pigeon and nothing else.

Until you can show me scientific proof that there a link then i will alway disagree, eyesign has been around for years and theres still no proof that it no more than a theory the same as throat theory and wing theory, i am not putting people down if thats what they want to believe but i have learnt the hard way myself and believed in theories and potions to win but ultimately its the basket that is the true theory that works, they either win or they dont. If people spent more time on actually racing and testing the birds they have they would get quicker results than putting here trust in something unproven. I think the reason why me and owen are saying what we do is through learning the hard way. Racing pigeons i hard enough for new starters especially, but if they get tied up in debates that will only lead to disappointment, we will end up loosing the future of sport, its the 21st century lets move way from the past and concentrate on doing what we suppose to do and thats racing.

Jas

Who said anything about pretty doos only?? I was trying to point out that if you have a family of pigeons long enough you will be able to tell what type from what line do the buisness racing!! \this is fact and not up for debate. Loads of roads to Rome as they say. Any new starter that takes a look at the theory,be it eyesign or what, will learn and take on their own opinions??Will this not give them depth of knowledge?

[Blue Chequer Pied]

One man's meat is another man's poison.

 

The beauty of pigeon racing is show me a theory or system and I will show you somebody that does the exact opposite and still wins!

[gulkie]

Everyone to their option but how many eye sign experts win week in week out and breed nothing but winners

I aint herd of any .

[Guest H@wkBait]

Everyone to their option but how many eye sign experts win week in week out and breed nothing but winners

I aint herd of any .

How many pigeon experts breed winners for fun week in week out not many either and you will notice on the 40 plus year old peds you get with your birds or the advertisement for the bird theres always a pic off the eye probably just a con like pedigree pigeons maybe eyesign dosent work no one knows but the eye is a great source off evaluating a pigeons health without reading it.