Back To Basics

[Guest peter4pm]

For the last year i have went back to basics with my birds regarding how i keep them .

 

Back when i first started keeping pigeons in the early 80s ...i used to clean them daily , give them nothing but good food , fresh water daily , grit supplied ., minerals .

 

I have since went back to this method , No more additives in the drinking water , only ACV twice a week.

No more vaccinations or treatments for this that and the other....And since then i have noticed a big difference in my birds ...they seem much more active and stronger willed.

 

I used to scream and shout about vaccinating , but now im staying well away from it as i don't think it really serves any purpose for the pigeons health..

 

This is just reflecting my very own opinion .

 

Peter McCartney

Scotland

[PIGEON_MAN]

For the last year i have went back to basics with my birds regarding how i keep them .

 

Back when i first started keeping pigeons in the early 80s ...i used to clean them daily , give them nothing but good food , fresh water daily , grit supplied ., minerals .

 

I have since went back to this method , No more additives in the drinking water , only ACV twice a week.

No more vaccinations or treatments for this that and the other....And since then i have noticed a big difference in my birds ...they seem much more active and stronger willed.

 

I used to scream and shout about vaccinating , but now im staying well away from it as i don't think it really serves any purpose for the pigeons health..

 

This is just reflecting my very own opinion .

 

Peter McCartney

Scotland

Is vaccinating not compulsory up in Scotland.

[buster151]

thought it was everywhere

[OLDYELLOW]

Only have to Vaccinate to fly from France .

[PIGEON_MAN]

Only have to Vaccinate to fly from France .

Sorry mate you have got that wrong ALL FLYING OUT BIRDS MUST BE VACCINATED weather flying inland or abroad.

[OLDYELLOW]

Sorry mate you have got that wrong ALL FLYING OUT BIRDS MUST BE VACCINATED weather flying inland or abroad.

was discussing the reason behind it and was told other week that not required unless from France , have checked it and rules say all birds entered into races / shows must be vaccinated ( So me mate Bob was wrong lol )

 

VACCINATION CODE OF PRACTICE

(1) Racing pigeons entered in races or shows must be vaccinated annually against paramyxovirus with a

DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(2) A vaccination certificate containing the details of the vaccination must be used.

(3) Vaccination of pigeons must be witnessed by two independent association/union members, or a veterinary

surgeon who will be required to sign the vaccination certificate on the front and likewise after the last pigeon

listed on the reverse of the form.

(4) The vaccination certificate should have recorded on it the make of vaccine used and the batch number of the

vaccine.

(5) The original copy of the certificate should be retained by the club and a certified true copy lodged with any

other club (if a member is in more than one club). These certificates should be retained for two years.

(6) Members entering racing pigeons in races or shows will be required to certify on their race/show entry form

that the pigeons have been vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(7) Club secretaries will require to certify to their convoying organisations that all pigeons entered have been

vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(8) The driver of the transporter should be furnished with a certificate certifying that all pigeons carried have been

vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

[PIGEON_MAN]

was discussing the reason behind it and was told other week that not required unless from France , have checked it and rules say all birds entered into races / shows must be vaccinated

 

VACCINATION CODE OF PRACTICE

(1) Racing pigeons entered in races or shows must be vaccinated annually against paramyxovirus with a

DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(2) A vaccination certificate containing the details of the vaccination must be used.

(3) Vaccination of pigeons must be witnessed by two independent association/union members, or a veterinary

surgeon who will be required to sign the vaccination certificate on the front and likewise after the last pigeon

listed on the reverse of the form.

(4) The vaccination certificate should have recorded on it the make of vaccine used and the batch number of the

vaccine.

(5) The original copy of the certificate should be retained by the club and a certified true copy lodged with any

other club (if a member is in more than one club). These certificates should be retained for two years.

(6) Members entering racing pigeons in races or shows will be required to certify on their race/show entry form

that the pigeons have been vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(7) Club secretaries will require to certify to their convoying organisations that all pigeons entered have been

vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

(8) The driver of the transporter should be furnished with a certificate certifying that all pigeons carried have been

vaccinated against paramyxovirus with a DEFRA-approved vaccine.

No mention of France in number 1,just says races,surely you are not reading it as just races from abroad.

[OLDYELLOW]

As said had this conversation before with a friend he stated they didn't need to vaccinate to fly inland , vaccination was only ever done to please the French or they wouldn't accept our birds for liberations . Hence went to get the rule So basically if a Pigeon is to be raced or shown it has to be vaccinated and quite rightly so imo .

[kirky]

his birds dont fly out so hes ok not to vaccinate,

[Guest peter4pm]

Your right Kirky ...my birds are in Aviarys ...Although i do still have some racing pigeons ..but i dont race they are kept only to help my breeding ...they are not vaccinated but are fine and healthy in my opinion and do fly out.

 

I am just trying to get my birds stronger without the help of this and that ...i never used to do anything back in the day so im trying to do it again see how they go ...its around a year now with nothing but good quality food , fresh water daily , grit , black mins , grit poits ...and twice a week a splash of ACV in the water ...nowt else , they seem to be in fine health.

[Guest Owen]

Well this one way of trying to beat the odds but I believe you are wrong on several counts. The law says that you have to vaccinate pigeons for good reason. There is a possibility that paramixovirus can infect the poultry in this country. People in South Wales know for certain that all pigeons need to be vaccinated to keep them healthy and they also know what can happen if the pigeons are denied the protection of the vaccine. Can you imagine what would happen if humans stopped vaccination? I doubt if we would have the population issues we have today because there would be many early deaths for sure. Now if you said that you wanted to stop the use of antibiotics and other strong medicines I would be with you all the way. I think you would be right to say that these chemicals spoil good pigeons. For those who have the dreaded YBS lergi paramixo vaccine used properly can control this problem. I have used the De Weerd vaccine and it can reduce and eliminate the YBS problem. I vaccinate at 4 weeks and again at 8 weeks. Then if I see any sign of holding food or water in the crop I vaccinate again. When I tried this idea out I vaccinated a couple of very sick birds every week for 4 weeks. I was surprised to see that the birds got better after each vaccination. The birds had 5 vaccinations in all. The same birds are fine and healthy now and you would never guess that they were once very nearly dead.

Finally I think you need to understand that if your birds get worms or lice they should be treated because there is no way that they can build immunity to things like that. It is the same with red mite because if you try to ignore it you will end up with very dead pigeons having been tortured to death slowly.

[Guest peter4pm]

I have never heard of such law and ive kept pigeons for nearly 30 years Owen ....i was of the understanding it was a choice thing ?? if it was the case that we had to do it , then it would have to be carried out each year by a qualified Vet then issued with a certificate ...like in Belgium ...would that not be the case ? not done by any joe blogs.....And im sure to show and to race in Europe that you need to have a certificate stating the birds are vaccinated ..this i know from my Belgian friend ...but here is not the case as far as i am aware ...for the showing of fancy birds anyway (i dont show btw) ...if im wrong then i take it on board ...but breaking the law seems a bit far fetched

[Guest geordiejen]

hi owen i cannot understand why you give your birds multiple vaccinations.if its only a pmv vaccine then surely once is enough,its supposed to prevent the birds getting pmv.young bird sickness is a totally different thing what ive read is its a mixture of bacteria and virus due to the birds being stressed out once weaned.i do give my birds beneficial remedies and it seems to curb some problems with health in the youngsters but you never know whats around the corner and in peters thinking i once to had pigeons many moons ago and all they got was seed and water straight from the tap.this was in the early 80's when all i had heard of was canker and pigeons were treated as pigeons in thise days the hardy bird which they should be.however in days like these all i seem to hear or witness myself is ybs dying or problems when they bring in new stock.as for me im finished buying birds to improve on and if i dont achieve with what i have then so be it.my main objetive now is to protect what i have and see how it goes from there.

[just ask me]

are not all conveyors suppose to carry a vaccination list when carrying birds also under defra rules which is the law of the land which would override any union rules

[Guest peter4pm]

Bring in new stock is always a problem Geordie ..ive not brought a bird in in 2 years and my birds have been fine ...so you deffo have a good point there about keeping and breeding what you got.

[just ask me]

I have never heard of such law and ive kept pigeons for nearly 30 years Owen ....i was of the understanding it was a choice thing ?? if it was the case that we had to do it , then it would have to be carried out each year by a qualified Vet then issued with a certificate ...like in Belgium ...would that not be the case ? not done by any joe blogs.....And im sure to show and to race in Europe that you need to have a certificate stating the birds are vaccinated ..this i know from my Belgian friend ...but here is not the case as far as i am aware ...for the showing of fancy birds anyway (i dont show btw) ...if im wrong then i take it on board ...but breaking the law seems a bit far fetched

 

 

if people dont follow the laws or rules supplied we will be back vaccinating with a vet and then we will complain even more about prices and costs involved in keeping pigeons

[Guest geordiejen]

if following the correct procedure of needing 2 witnesses to vaccinate birds leaves me in a bit of a pickle.i only have show racers and im not in a local pigeon racing club.im a member or the rpra so would i need to send a photocopy of the vaccination sheet to them?

[PIGEON_MAN]

if following the correct procedure of needing 2 witnesses to vaccinate birds leaves me in a bit of a pickle.i only have show racers and im not in a local pigeon racing club.im a member or the rpra so would i need to send a photocopy of the vaccination sheet to them?

If you show your birds you should present your sheet to the sec,or someone else at the show,see the code of vaccination in above threads.

[knoxjn]

i have a file in the transporter with copies of all members vacc sheets in it this is updated constantly obds and ybds o one should be on the transporter without one

[Guest Owen]

peter4pm

you could be right about there not being written legislation but my understanding is that DEFRA have insisted that racing pigeons are vaccinated before allowing them to mix with other birds due to the risk of contaminating the National Poultry Flock. Like you I was very sceptical about these vaccinations and I wondered about the affect of the vaccine on the birds because YBS seemed to coincide with the vaccination programme. At that time I was a very reluctant to vaccinate. Through trial and error and talking to some very good vets I have changed my thinking. I now believe that the vaccinations are essential and that what we call YBS is often a stain of PMV. When I looked into YBS I was struck by the fact that there were a lot of different views on the matter. To a layman like me I found that I did not know what to believe. After a while I could see that there was definitely a virus involved and that the bacterial problems were caused as a result of the impaired immune system. A bit like AIDS in people. So regardless of what the Vets were saying this was a disease that we could not cure or control.

So I decided to try out some ideas of my own. I knew that the only way a virus can be controlled is through vaccination. It can not be cured by medication but it is possible to build up the antibodies by vaccination. Much the same that Doctors have been doing for humans for a long time now. Normally the young birds would get their antibodies from their parents but for reasons that I do not understand this was not happening. So I decided to try vaccinations to boost the immune system. First I vaccinated the breeders and the young at 4 weeks old followed by a second vaccination of young at 8 weeks old. It was one of those things that you try that actually works. I think that the second vaccination is important because the first one does not always work as it should. I bought some birds in and one of them became very ill with the classic YBS syptems. I vaccinated it 4 times at weekly intervals and it's cure was spectacular.

 

 

 

 

ndvaccna

[Guest peter4pm]

if people dont follow the laws or rules supplied we will be back vaccinating with a vet and then we will complain even more about prices and costs involved in keeping pigeons

 

 

Say for instance ...someone tells you their birds are vaccinated but they have no proof ...how does that one get worked out ??

[PIGEON_MAN]

Say for instance ...someone tells you their birds are vaccinated but they have no proof ...how does that one get worked out ??

As a club sec.I just have to take their word for it,with the consequences of being found out by DEFRA I would say that any serious pigeon racer would not take that chance as the birds could be tested at any time by a official when being transported.

[just ask me]

Say for instance ...someone tells you their birds are vaccinated but they have no proof ...how does that one get worked out ??

 

 

as far as i know all vaccination sheets must be filled out and signed by 2 other members of the union who act as wittiness basically saying that the birds have been done in accordance with legislation

 

 

 

it is a terrible disease ive seen lofts been wiped out pigeons rolling around on there head and god only knows what effects it has on a pigeons inside while the vaccination is not 100% why take the chance on helping to inflict this disease on your birds as this virus has many ways of spreading not just from contact with other birds its airborne too i believe also may be passed on from entering another loft and bringing it back even on your clothes or shoes i also believe that birds that have been vaccinated get over this more quickly than others as there immune system has come up against a milder form of the virus though vaccination that why many top vets believe who are not involved with the makers of the vaccine so there no profit to be made from it from them say to even vaccinate twice once on weaning and again a month or so before racing i have to say i agree with this method i also think everybody should do there stock not just the racers

[THE FIFER]

are not all conveyors suppose to carry a vaccination list when carrying birds also under defra rules which is the law of the land which would override any union rules

 

CORRECT,

[Guest Owen]

peter4pm

Why would anyone want to avoid vaccinating their birds and tell lies by say that they had done it? We have won a high level of trust from the Authorities which has been easier for us so why would some clever person want to spoil it all? I am sure that if word got out that pigeons were not being vaccinated the Authorities would find a way of stopping that happening. They would probably carry out spot checks on the transporters and insist that all vaccinations were carried out by Vets which would cost a lot of money.

I once saw a situation where sheep farmers thought that the new approach to transporting sheep to market could not be policed. How wrong they were. Not only did the Authorities have there way, they enforced the new rules with ruthless efficiency.

I am sure that if the RSPCA or a similar body decided to police pigeon transporters or DEFRA decided to police Vaccination it would be done very thoroughly indeed. So I hope that if you decide to leave your birds unvaccinated you will have the good sense to keep them inside your loft and not allow them to mix with other birds.