When did the BEST bird win a National

[Roland]

Seriously, when looks at the Locations and other birds flying further and with a wind not helping at all for instance, let's have the 'National' winner tat was acyually the Best on the day! And there has be a few...

[Roland]

Seriously though, when one looks at the 'Locations' and what other birds flying further with a wind not helping at all for instance, then has the 'Best Bird' won the 'National'. How many winner's are actually the Best on the day! And there has be a few... This of course is not sour grapes, nor the ole potatoe of a Jealousy.

For instance Ken Pothercary's y/b flew 80 miles further westward inland to be beaten into 3rd in a crisp N. West wind only to be beaten by 3 ypm. Now that was without any doubt, let alone question the best bird by far ... but 3rd.

[Chris Little]

The best bird in a race is the fastest and the fastest is the winner.

 

I scrutinise national results and easily spot outstanding birds and often congratulate the owners but there is too much green cheese where many fail to recognise the winner.

[Mike Lycett]

Jake's Princess was clocked before 7pm on the day from Cholet 550+ miles & she was only bird on the day winning 1st Open SNRPC Cholet.

 

I'd say she was the best bird  

[Roland]

Chris when is the best bird held up at the Channel for instance, and hops 22 miles over the water first light, better tan a bird ... tired from previous days' exertion, chilled by early colsd watery winds, and then face another 200 -350, 450 miles further over a different terrain and beaten by less than 5 ypm not camparable at least with the bird that has sat on it's nest the last 8 hours twiddling it's beak!

Not taking away from the winner... so that can be laid to rest.

Never seen these 'Well Known' and so called great flyers move to a less oppertune location to prove a point... Funnily enough have only ever seen them move to a more prime site.

Niether have you, unless Family or work dictates it to be so!

[Guest]

Look ... we all know that any kind of strength in the wind will seriously impede some pigeons in their efforts to win a race outright ... and the wider the radius and larger the overfly these problems get accentuated. Sections D and H in the National Flying Club rarely get a lookin for those very reasons. Personally I wouldn't ever wish to crab the winner of a National because clearly at the very minimum it was the best pigeon racing to its own loft on that day and probably beat a good number of very good adjacent competitors too.

 

I've had the advantage of the wind on many occasions with the NFC and CSCFC and have not yet even won my Section ... why? ... well 1) of course pigeon racing is ultra-competitive and 2) because my efforts and management system and preparation fall way short of the standards set by a great many competitors in my area/section.

 

Whilst I always pay close attention to, say, the top 10 in any National race I like to scan right down the result to find competitors further down the list flying to different locations and/or flying further than the leading pigeons. Meritorious performances can be found a long way down the list believe me.

[stevebelbin]

Wind will always be a major factor in pigeon racing, nothing you can do about it. In the UNC you can normally guess where the combing topper will be. And its normally on the coast. I was at a coastal loft a few month back on the day of our Lille race and the bloke I was talking to predicted that the oastal lofts would be where the combine winner was and he even predicted which lofts would get them and sure enough he was bang on. In my club you can predict who will get the birds and you also know when you may aswell not bother looking. The club I fly in is the shortest from the race points in our fed and we should be first drop but they get dragged over unless theres a strong head wind.

 

When I look through the BHW i rarely look at the winning bird unless it was from a loft that sent only a few birds in races with high birdages, these are the lofts and birds my respect goes out to.

[Mike Lycett]

Basically though, if you're a class act & your birds are right then you should be able to send a small team & figure right at the top if you've got the position

 

Do'nt you agree ?

[Guest]

'Snydale Express' raced by Chris Gordon and winner of 1st Open NFC Tarbes 2005 flying 726 miles beating 4065 others. Probably one that most fanciers could agree upon??

[Guest shadow]

"Virgo" wininng the young bird National, flying 200+ miles  more than the southern birds.

[Roland]

Nice to see these birds getting another mention, because they in all honesty deserve it. That Pothercary bird, Personally couldn't stand the bloke for if ever two a**sholes were born he’s both of them, but that apart what a bird! Beating all but two East Coastal birds, 80 miles inland. That takes some doing with any West in the wind!

.... Mike Says ...

Basically though, if you're a class act & your birds are right then you should be able to send a small team & figure right at the top if you've got the position

 

Don’t you agree ?

 

If not do what many do and move lol.

We know the fella that moved into a valley where the birds like to sail up... His is the first drop, others then have to twist and turn up through the vally. If his is the first batch ... he is a winner... I KNOW many who are classes above him as a fancier... But he has to get them conditioned.

But this topic s not really to knock the winners, but to give credit to birds that were every bit as good as the winner ... or the winner truly deserved it's merit.

[Roland]

 

 

If not, then do what many do and move lol. IF you can afford to and the family don't mind lol

We know the fella that moved into a valley where the birds like to sail up... His is the first drop, others then have to twist and turn up through the vally. If his is the first batch ... he is a winner... I KNOW many who are classes above him as a fancier... But he has to get them conditioned.

But this topic s not really to knock the winners, but to give credit to birds that were every bit as good as the winner ... or the winner truly deserved it's merit.

[Roland]

Yes but on the other hand you still need the Location whatever many you fly ... I'd wager  that Mike send 120 birds Lerwicke, Thurso or even Frazerbugh in a WESTER wind won't win against the East Coast boys. So even 2 sent would be no good AGAINST them ... might well in his eastern side of any others.

[Guest ben]

What a load of crap you lot talk...you go on about wind,,and it`s advantages...then you talk crap abouit chris gordons winner,and Virgo...for christs sake.chris gordons was possible the greatest win in the NFC BLUE RIBBON,....not because he won...you twats...simply because he played the game like a gentelman.. he never cried ..FOUL!!!... and what a great fancier he proved he was ,....getting stuffed time and time again by the southern short flyers...for years...UNTIL...the wind favoured the longest flyers perfectly...do your homework...the wind was AGAINST the birds at kickoff..then tured SOUTH,and got STRONGER as they got across the channel...you lot really do talk crap.

    Let`s get it right..VIRGO..that white GRIZ..good performance...but for the same reason..wind up it`s ass....even thou it was a youngbird race..only trouble was.we had to here the stud going on and on about how great it was...

[ACE LOFTS]

night flight raced by mark gilbert

[Matthew]

Chris when is the best bird held up at the Channel for instance, and hops 22 miles over the water first light, better tan a bird ... tired from previous days' exertion, chilled by early colsd watery winds, and then face another 200 -350, 450 miles further over a different terrain and beaten by less than 5 ypm not camparable at least with the bird that has sat on it's nest the last 8 hours twiddling it's beak!

Not taking away from the winner... so that can be laid to rest.

Never seen these 'Well Known' and so called great flyers move to a less oppertune location to prove a point... Funnily enough have only ever seen them move to a more prime site.

Niether have you, unless Family or work dictates it to be so!

 

 

Dont undrstand what youre trying t say?

 

[jimmy white]

there are many great winners of national races on the day,  i certainly wouldnt condem one of them , there are also many great winners on the second day, but if you look at all previous national results youll find some exceptional pigeons ,that in my opinion dont get the credit they deserve,,,,,EVEN IN THE BLUE RIBBAND RACES ;D

[schouwman71]

Look at M&D Evans national performances,dont say they have the best location,all the birds are liberated together in the races so they all are out to win,top birds top fanciers will always be near the top plus a lot of very hard work,the weather has always been different and so as the wind,a winner is a winner at the end of the day.

[Roland]

What performances? One National was it 1997 - 1999 twice tops!

Any Way Matthew when they coherse and bully into NOON liberations under the pretence that it is fairer to hold the birds up a the Coast!

All and every Race should give every bird a chance to be home at night ... they night of the liberation that is I believe.

No two days are a like... and if flown well on day one and birds in their loft at six...

[Guest]

Some astonishingly ill-informed and laughable remarks from Ben that need some tidying up!

 

1) The wind at liberation at Tarbes was Light SW giving the whole convoy a chance of making the UK by nightfall.

2) The top 10 pigeons made a velocity in excess of 1200ypm.

3) Chris Gordon was the ONLY fancier in Section K to make the Top 50 in the Open ... with his first two arrivals.

4) There were only 6 pigeons from Section K in the Top 200.

5) Of 208 pigeons sent from Section K just 32 were timed in (15.4%) ... no other Section had a lower statistical return from the race.

6) 2nd, 4th, and 9th Open were pigeons living on the South Coast in Section A flying 190+ miles shorter than Chris. This shows that the Southern fanciers could and did have equal opportunity to win the race.

 

I would summise, in the face of the above FACTS, that there is no empirical nor statistical evidence that any kind of advantage conferred to Section K in the Tarbes race otherwise arrivals in that area would have been more condensed and plentiful.  Fanciers really do need to read down the full result and see where the leading pigeons are ... the evidence or merit normally smacks you straight in the face!

[Guest]

Wind is a big factor, with the welsh south east national, if there is any north east etc in the wind we havent got a chance in the north the only wind  we will win in is a west south west wind. because if you look at the route the birds have to split into 2 directions from the go and the 2 batches will have a complettly different race to one another. take a look at a map draw a line from say rhyl to maidstone and draw a line from cardiff to maidstone and you will see what i mean.

[jimmy white]

IF LADBROOKE THE BOOKMAKERS WERE LAYING ODDS ON A PIGEON RACE IM PRETTY SURE YOU WOULD FIND THAT THERES MANY FACTORS COUNT , INCLUDING THE WIND  IM PRETTY SURE I KNOW WHO WOULD BE FAVOURITES AND WHO WOULD BE OUTSIDERS, BUT THERE ARE ALLWAYS THE ODD EXCEPTION WITH PIGEONS

[Guest TAMMY_1]

What a load of crap you lot talk...you go on about wind,,and it`s advantages...then you talk crap abouit chris gordons winner,and Virgo...for christs sake.chris gordons was possible the greatest win in the NFC BLUE RIBBON,....not because he won...you twats...simply because he played the game like a gentelman.. he never cried ..FOUL!!!... and what a great fancier he proved he was ,....getting stuffed time and time again by the southern short flyers...for years...UNTIL...the wind favoured the longest flyers perfectly...do your homework...the wind was AGAINST the birds at kickoff..then tured SOUTH,and got STRONGER as they got across the channel...you lot really do talk crap.

    Let`s get it right..VIRGO..that white GRIZ..good performance...but for the same reason..wind up it`s ass....even thou it was a youngbird race..only trouble was.we had to here the stud going on and on about how great it was...

 

THE MOST WIND ABOUT IS COMING OUT YOUR MOUTH

[Roland]

Jimmy so amicablely put.Yes by all means give the due credit deserve to the winners... It can't have done any more... and doesn't have a say on where why or how... it just gives it dues on the day.

  Likewise please remember, especially if buying, where the winner was, and look at the wind for day, and other section winners, placed birds. Forget the prejuduices... give credit to ANY bird, and of course ancier, that has achieved. Then look and be honest, forget the creeping around the 'Name4s and see just what is what!

There are many great, clever, dedicated flyer ythat have never won zilch! and if one say that is because they weren't, aren't good enough, then MAY i suggest that it is best that one to looks for a class head shrink!

[ALF]

ROLAND YOU'VE OPENED A CAN OF WORMS HERE MATE ;D ;D