Plebs and Tin pot clubs

[Guest]

Are you a pleb do you fly in a tin pot club.I didn't want to hijack Mike Lycet's thread where he is trying to sell a Staff Van Reet bird for a customer of his (very good bird too!), so I thought it best to refer to his statement on a new thread. I must admit I found it offensive....why?? well I reckon when Mike sells birds for his various clients he doesn't ask the purchasers if they are plebs or if they fly in tin pot clubs.... I could be wrong of course and he may have refused to sell to someone who flies in a club that has a small amount of members. But if you'd sell to such fanciers of which many are the salt of the earth and can't help the fact that they don't live in the industrial heartlland but in areas where fanciers are like drops of blood, why would you castigate them for trying to make or cover the cost of birds they have originally bought from the likes of you Mike by selling some themselves?

[Roland]

Seems that this one went - purposely or not, over Mikes head.

I have had many long and often heated discussion on this very subject.

But the reality Albear is the answers are well known and accepted ... if only kept to ones self.

[Guest]

Yes Roland many things going over heads at the mo, its the Mr Staff Van Reet gang me thinks

[Guest]

Yes seems to happen regularly at the mo, me thinks it is the Mr Staf Van Reet syndrome, .............. say what you want but keep your head down when challenged.........I suppose superior pigeon fanciers don't need to be accountable to plebs.

[Mike Lycett]

Albear

 

I've only sold pigeons for no more than 2 or 3 people - and I've been asked by 20-30 in the lastv few months atl east. When I know they're genuine pigeons from genuine lofts who race in good, strong healthy competition & they can be marketed at a fair price then I see no harm in passing good pigeons on. It should be noted though that I don't gain ONE SINGLE BIT from it. I do it purely to help the seller out (whom I tend to know) and any prospective purchaser 'cos I know they'll be getting the business.

 

What does pi$$ me off a bit is seeing guys advertising pigeons for more money than they are worth often with little or precious little creditable performance to their name

 

If that aggrieves you albear then i'm sorry - but for me its a fair shout

[Guest]

No Mike, that don't agrieve me, your reference in general to plebs and tin pot clubs does. If you know someone who does sell badly have the balls to say who it is, not tar everyone with the same brush

[Mike Lycett]

I never tarred anyone with any brush - if you wanna in interpret it in that particular manner then that's up to you - not me.  I had no-one in mind - it was a sweeping generalisation because I think there's a lot of crap passed on at this time of year.

 

Don't you agree ??

[Guest shadow]

Passing crap on at this time of the year is nothing new but it is amazing that some people still buy from the papers etc without going to see what they are buying and do not put themselves out to sort out the feather flyers, first question asked whats its pedigree (a lot of the time worthless ) personall most of my birds were bought from flyers I knew.

[Mike Lycett]

And you're very wise too.

[Guest]

Mike your answers have not in anyway answered your comments, which were crap, or as you told Andrew and you should know better 'bang out of order in my book'. Of course because of your elevated staus you are entitlled to tell someone they are bang out of order, where as a pleb shouldn't

[Guest Vic]

Albear,    You are dealing with a very slippery creature, re, the one and only Lycett, be exremely careful, or you will end up in the stocks alongside Vic. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  

[madmaxlofts]

what is a pleb

[seagull]

vic is 1 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Guest]

Vic, I think Mike has done a fantastic job in the sport, I don't think he is slippery but I don't like condescending comments about ordinary guys but for who didn't race pigeons Mike and all the other aces would not be able to make their claims about their superiority.

You see Mike has said it himself, its birds of origin, sytems and 'secrets of the ace. What chance has the pleb got who can't afford to pay hundreds for the M& D specials but he tries his best and now and agaiin will buy birds from the likes of Mike and his circle of friends ut not have the skill or knowledge to win with these birds. This pleb then goes on to sell cause he couldn't do out with them, are they now bad overpriced birds because they have been in the hands of someone who didn't know what to do? I think there are some bargains to be bought from such plebs. It ain't good when your told if you fly in a small club its a tin pot club I've flown in a Fed that sends 28000 birds, my section sent more birds than the Worcester Fed. That made the fanciers better!? Maybe , maybe not

[mickmcgrevy]

There's an old saying   ( BUYER BEWARE  )  I have seen pigeons being offered for sale in the weekly's, and to honest you couldn't have given them to me.

 

It is up the the purchaser to make himself aware of what he is buying, his / her money so do as you wish. Personnaly I would never buy a pigeon on local club performances, but thats me, each to their own.

 

All the best   Mick

[madmaxlofts]

what is a pleb

[bluey]

A pleb is slang for someone of the "lower classes" my quotes; originating from Roman times where the plebians were the slaves.

My simple answer if you want an answer in full just google pleb.

[REDCHEQHEN]

what is a pleb

 

dictionary:

pleb n a plebeian; (sl) a common person

plebeian adj relating to the common people; base, vulgar. n a commoner of ancient Rome; a vulgar, coarse person

 

 

[bluey]

oops  :-/

[Guest]

Mick, spot on and the right way to put it

[BIGK]

It seems to me you buy wht you can afford but remember not everything that comes out of the "top fanciers" lofts arent all winners, look how many vandenabeeles are for sale surely these arent all breeding champions or why would they be for sale, dont know anyone who sells birds that are breeding super winners do you?? this has happened from the time when the world began, theres always been someone ready to take someones eyes out!!! sculdugary whatever you want to call it, it happens! once bitten twice shy springs to mind!! but not everyone selling birds is of the same ilk, the honest man will help you with the system, feeding, breeding, treatment, everything and ask for nothing in return, they are about and if you find one it helps!!

good luck to all fellow PLEBS may we continue to make others great until we ourselves fall lucky, find that "super couple" and reach the dizzy heights!!

[Roland]

Have, Allbear, been  posting many times on this very topic, and on various sites. It doesn't win you many friends, and your popularity sinks quite a bit of course. Not that that ever worried me in the slightest, and the very ones who are for want of a better word plebes, are the ones naturally that are only to quick to defend them.- I would disagree  somewhat about the proletarians not being able to handle and get the best from them though. I believe strongly that certain aspects of any sport past - time has those born with that certain affinity that makes them excel ... though of course they can't just nip along and purchase a location for instance, but that is a another story.  Was a time when the telephone numbers are banded when talking about buying the 'Goods' and the crap scenario about 'If you want to succeed go and do what I and other have done and spend thousands of £'s. One paid 10,000 each to get a top pair that did excel for him ... never mentioned how many others were purchased etc. Even to - day that is 2 years wages to a vast  percentage of the country. In 1986 a basic weekly wage was £42 per week. That after stoppages was less than £2000's per YEAR! Now this guy was able to move to different locations to better his means.... how many plebses can do that NOW! Never mind then!

These same folks that beat the 'Make up Crowds', who's money they are winning - remember the sprint cons that started in the 60's big time... mid week races, then the section changes to bolster up their' winnings etc – are the very ones that have little serious time for them!

  This man was asked how a young man with a wife, and two kids, high mortgage, etc. could, not only go out and purchase a pigeon that was a lot more than what his ‘Terrace House’ cost, but how to justify that to his wife and family. Besides the feed, poor training and location, if he was to compete, but how was it in the slightest feasible to purchase like birds? And was then asked HE was prepared to breed him a pair! Not only did he spit his dummy out the pram, the rattle and all went! In fact after a couple more home truths he left the sight, many was pleased, but some of the in crowd were least than happy, they seemingly missed his constant bragging about how good he was, and how he once won a National. Then when these and a few other minor details are raised, it is because of that old get out ‘JEALOUSY’! Cods – wallop, but convenient. Yes I suppose some do get miffed told how to succeed is to take out a mortgage and by the birds… go bankrupt and fly under another’s name! No the ole hot potatoes of jealousy is fast waning… though of course there is an element of truth there sometime I have no doubt, as there are in all walks of life. Likewise if anyone invests their cash in setting up a stud them bully for them and yes they are entitled to make a profit. Be absurd  to think otherwise. And  many studs are good, run by honest folk, who work hard to make a living at it. All power to their elbow, I say.

But look at the columnists that endorse, the ones that ask for a gift young bird / pair etc. Isn’t it marvellous how birds of a feather stick … Look at the adverts that many in the proximity think they must be endorsing some one in another planet. Happens here just the same ‘One swallow makes a summer’ eh! No I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment Allbear, and it is quickly obvious who licks whose bum. Personally I give up on that topic because no one really wants to know… some haven’t the means, or in the know, and many just don’t care, as long as they get a pat on the head every so often the run and fetch lol.

 

 

No Vic it was not about Chris Balsam. When I put the same points to him he was a pure gentleman, no airs and graces, no feeble excuses, were communicated and agreed, and admitted much, that every one had a station to fill, and regardless who, where , when or what, let alone why, we all look the same sitting on the toilet.…. He has given great birds away, and I know that for a fact. Likewise I know that Stu Swilcox has also been first to dip into his pocket and help out any charitable cause. Likewise many more too numerous to mention … For some It’s good business, but many because they care. And I wish I could fly a bird as well as Vic, especially when nissed. lol

[Guest]

Roland , good post, I always like it when I hear someone praising fellow fanciers, it rarely happens. You are someone I would listen too. I hear what you say about Stu, good to hear cause I do think he is Mr Staff Van Reet or in with them........ would just like to know why the deciet. Chris obviously thinks I must be talking thru my backside about the eye, no problem with that........it is hard to believe......... but good to hear he is a good guy and gent, I believe in principle and the comments by Mike had none, I've readhis replies but they still don't explain why you are rubbish if you fly in a small club..

[Guest]

Big K amen

[Roland]

Allbear, was a time till nigh ten years ago when I was involved, and once the manager of a ‘Big Band’. Up to 19 piece in fact. I wasn’t actually a player, as this was a class act. Never used to be, when I first progressed from a nice little 4 piece do the club scene.  Local hot shots were ‘Prima Donna’ that lack professionalism. Was of course enough class local acts, but these were mostly playing regular for class acts. Pete – founder Member and class reader / musician, and I fell out with them from time to time. They thought they were above their means, big fish in little ponds. Well, was an American act of fame coming over, and we needed to rehearse the dots (Music) Three came from nearly 40 miles away that played at the Winsor Club in Manchester the Sat night, and didn’t finish till 2 O’clock. They were there at nine Sunday morning waiting for the doors to be opened,  other local ones turned up between 10 and 11. I sack all the local lads and asked for the Pro Guys’ mates, and never looked back. And yes we often used local top flight boys, till it became like the ‘Move / ELO’ where we had a range of sight readers, of all ages and sex, that we could ring when convenient to both parties. Yes they ‘Named Dropped’ galore, especially when first meting up. Both I found that ‘Professionalism came in all shapes. Sizes, and all walks of live, and they were Name droppers, egoists, that were useless! Then were nice quiet gentlemen that were an honour to know and play with, would never / hate to let you down for whatever reason. And ALWAYS found or knew a good 'Depp' for you if need be - which widen the net for us. And then there was the shysters, hangers on, that knew and praise only those they thought something special, as if it would rub of on them, often they were never in the same town, let alone the same room, and of course – like me – never on stage with them.

Yet my father was a brilliant musician, that couldn’t read a note, mother was a brilliant reader that only ever touch the piano once in all the time I knew her, though there was always a piano for her in the house. Why we never knew.

Father had an impeccable hear and great ‘Dep’ of natural feeling, and was a renown violinist locally. YET a ‘House Hold’ name put HIS name to some of his music he played for him, and was broadcasted as such … because he couldn’t match the feeling father got when playing some sentimental song. Likewise I’d say with pigeon men. If they had the means to improve, they could if they wanted. Others name drop to own ends, and many just want to be in ‘The In – crowd’ regardless what fodder and rubbish they spout to be there.

Like a ‘Fellow’ that wrote a great musical piece - that father had a little part in, named Ginger Thompson. He sent away this musical piece into a contest etc. never heard, so the wrote, and then wrote again, till the reply came that thanks, but sorry it was up to parr …. 2 years later, you’ve guest it  a famous piece that was an award winning musical film too…. So too many praise unworthy people and causes. That’s fine when in ignorance … but when known, well surely that is another matter!