East vs West route into Scotland

[johno]

i hear that lanarkshire are going back the old route. anybody confirm or otherwise.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

i hear that lanarkshire are going back the old route. anybody confirm or otherwise.

 

yes they voted to go back down the west side race points

[wullie semple]

it was past to fly back down the old route you will have to take plenty y/birds to fly this route just look at midland fed

[maverick]

 

yes they voted to go back down the west side race points

 

                 MAD   MAD    MAD  

[JOHNNY WISHBONE]

OFF THEIR HEADS. IS IT COS ONE LOFT IS DOMINATING AND THEY,RE TRYING TO GIVE LESS OVERFLY?????

[DECKY]

it was past to fly back down the old route you will have to take plenty y/birds to fly this route just look at midland fed

You are spot on Wullie, we have been hammered down the west this year, especially with ybs.I know a top fancier with 2 left out of 65 bred.Will the doo men never wake up and smell the coffee.The only way you will get a half decent race from anywhere in the Solway is if there is a tail wind and they get up high over the hills.

 

[Guest WINGS 04]

I STARTED WITH 42 OLD BIRDS LAST YEAR DOWN TO 12 THE VOTE WAS 33 TO GO WEST AND 14 EAST WE WILL JUST HAVE TO SEE HOW WE GET ON

[Guest WINGS 04]

OFF THEIR HEADS. IS IT COS ONE LOFT IS DOMINATING AND THEY,RE TRYING TO GIVE LESS OVERFLY?????

 

I DO NOT THINK THIS IS THE  CASE AS YOU WILL FIEND THAT THE SAME LOFT STILL GET THE OVER FLY AND WILL STILL DOMINAT THE FED

[DECKY]

I wish all you Lanarkshire boys all the very best flying down the west.Everybody knows that it is the route to go but the infestation of hawks is unbelievable and makes it impossible to get straight forward racing.If we could deal with the hawk problem then everything would be great.

[sj irving jnr]

The managment committees race  programme proposal for the solway fed is to go back down the east.

 

[square_peg]

 

yes they voted to go back down the west side race points

 

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THIS IS THE BEST AND PROBABLY FAIREST ROUTE FOR SCOTLAND ..............BUT NOBODY HAS TOLD THE HAWKS YET  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

I WISH YOU WELL

[jimmy white]

 

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THIS IS THE BEST AND PROBABLY FAIREST ROUTE FOR SCOTLAND ..............BUT NOBODY HAS TOLD THE HAWKS YET  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

I WISH YOU WELL

 

yes i agree fully with this,, but , as the rspb say "the west coast corridor  has the majority of the hawk population", and a few years ago, adviced to change from this route,,,,,but i can assure you all that  this situation has changed drasticly,the "east route" coldstream, kelso, ridsdale , otterburn are polluted with them , much more now, than a few years ago [im quite sure the rspb know this ,as they cant keep breeding and staying in the west , theve multiplied many times over , since that report by the rspb in 2003  >

[johno]

post 10 square peg is rubbish. the fairest route is the route where all of the pigeons face the same conditions for the highest per centage of time taken to fly the distance. a prevailing sw wind automatically means that birds lying furthest east or nearest west of the liberation site have a pronounced advantage. when you add to this locating a liberation site in a straight line north south from the flyers flying furthest east it is clear the flyers in the west have no chance most days.

[johno]

post 11 jimmy it was not the rspb who advised staying away from the old route it was the experts paid by the shu. Dr Andrew Dixon was the authoritative expert employed by the shu. the shu then funded research where radios were attached to the back of birds and tracked them after liberation. 90 birds were used in trials. 5 from kelso and 1 from gretna. flyers with pigeons involved were robert lafferty raploch geddes and hillis chryston an p.lynch larbert. these lofts each used 30 of their own birds. half the birds had radios attached half did not. the kelso trials had good returns every week. in excess of 90 per cent. the gretna trial was a disaster. one pigeon on the day and less than 40 per cent all in. there is nothing to support the contet of your post jimmy. the reality is often hard to accept. jimmy where are the facts that support your post? where are the records and logs that you used to put your post togther.

[Guest]

Johno, I recall a BHW article on these radio trials and distinctly remember the 'scatter' observed on the birds released at [Carlisle?] and their subsequent loss, and I have no doubt that what you say about the trials is correct.

 

But this is the third time that I have posted this article and it was the subject of a discussion on this forum at the time, and it has been frequently referenced on here since as evidence not to go West Coast. If you read it and set the results of the radio trials against it, both together are proof that west coast route is not fit for racing pigeons.

 

 

Scotsman

Tue 30 Aug 2005

 

Birds of prey 'will kill off pigeon racing'   by Angie Brown

 

Pigeon fancier Gill Reilly used to have 40 birds but has lost 'some real beauties' and now has only 15 left.

 

PIGEON racing will die out in Scotland within 20 years if the number of birds of prey continues to soar at recent record levels, experts warned yesterday.

 

The number of sparrowhawks and peregrine falcons, which feed on pigeons, have hit unprecedented levels, and an estimated 120,000 racing birds are being killed in Scotland every year.

 

The problem is so bad that the Royal Pigeon Racing Association has lost 2,000 members and the Scottish Homing Union 300 since the start of the year.

 

There are now 4,200 peregrine falcons and 120,000 sparrowhawks living in the UK, with each eating between two and three birds a day.

 

Dr Philip Lynch, chairman of the Scottish Homing Union's Save Our Sport from Raptors group, called for a change in the law to allow them to be killed.

 

"This is a problem which is getting worse. It's a terrible worry because if nothing is done about the unprecedented numbers of raptors we will see a massive drop in the number of fanciers in ten years, and we won't have a sport in 20 years."

 

Dr Lynch, 65, who has been racing pigeons since the age of seven from his home town of Larbert, Stirlingshire, said he had lost 65 pigeons - half his flock - this year.

 

"Raptor numbers have just rocketed, which has become a huge problem for our sport. A lot of fanciers are demoralised now and are dropping out of the sport.

 

"It is also devastating for our children and grandchildren when they see sparrowhawks attacking and eating our pigeons in the garden. It is a family sport and they become attached to the pigeons as pets, so to see them being eaten alive is just horrendous.

 

"What has been happening is sparrowhawks are attacking our pigeons in the garden and the peregrines are terrorising them while they are flying during races, which is forcing them to go to the ground where they are being eaten by other predators, such as foxes.

 

"We are not saying we want rid of every single raptor, but Scotland now has more than 50 per cent of Britain's peregrine population and we want the law to be changed so that we can trap and kill the ones which attack our pigeons."

 

Gill Reilly, a pigeon fancier from Edinburgh, says the sport is facing a bleak future. "I used to have 40 pigeons but now I have only 15 left," he said. "There are hundreds of pigeons getting lost at every race now. Last week, 60 fanciers liberated 180 birds, but only 11 returned, which used to be just unheard of. I have lost some real beauties and now I just feel like leaving the sport."

 

 

Peter Bryant, general manager of the Royal Pigeon Racing Association, said sparrowhawks ate pigeons alive, subjecting them to a slow and painful death.

 

"People are losing more pigeons than normal, and I believe birds of prey are playing a significant part in this," he said. "There are certain parts of the country which are bad for peregrines, of which Scotland is one. They are also now coming into the cities, so they don't just pose a problem to rural fanciers.

 

"This year we have lost 2,000 members, who say they are leaving the sport because of birds of prey. It is very upsetting to lose this many members, as it is very difficult to recruit new people."

 

Duncan Orr-Ewing, a raptor specialist with the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, said independent research showed fanciers had failed to take precautions against raptor attacks.

 

"Peregrines are being made a scapegoat here and the fanciers' reaction is just to go kill something to solve the problem," he said. "If they were to kill a raptor, then it would just be replaced a few days later by another one.

 

"They have been given advice, such as to not use race routes along the M74 corridor where there are a lot of peregrines, keep their lofts away from woodland cover, put model owls on their roofs and use pigeons with a white rump because research shows they are less likely to be attacked, but our experience is that fanciers aren't doing this."

 

Homing pigeons have been raced for sport in the UK since the 1880s and they were used as battlefield messengers during the First World War.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fair Play]

The good Duncan Orr Ewing may well owe his very existence to one of the war pigeons maybe not directly but by information provided. It is all very well to say breed pigeons with white rumps (it would be like Watership Down) rabbits in the sky. The whole thing is about balance nobody is saying that the indigenous raptors of the country don't deserve a little help but not to bring birds from all and sundry and release them into the countryside their own success will be the downfall of the RSPB as there is a shortfall of blackbirds, thrush, sparrows, starlings and other native birds. Maybe the time has come for the money raised at the big shows was put to use for the benefit of the sport and pigeon fanciers after all "Charity begins at home"

[Guest]

Fair Play, been looking back at my BHW clippings, SHU and Confed have had a campaign going since 1996, and as at March 2007 SHU said it was still 'on going'.

 

Dr Andrew Dixon reported in May 2002 research findings from South Wales peregrine diet was 69% 'pigeon' during race season and 25% 'pigeon' outside race season, 92% of those 'pigeons' were racing pigeons; in the same piece he confirmed that 'research concluded there was little evidence to support view that visual deterrents stopped raptor attacks on racing pigeons'.

 

Dr Andrew Dixon in a BHW Interview Feb 2002 'alternatives to raptor control are use of deterrents [see above, later discounted] or managing pigeon racing in a way that reduces attacks. During F&M crisis some fanciers changed their route to fly from Cornwall to lofts in North of England and Midlands, in the full knowledge that flight thro Cornwall, Devon & South Wales is heavily populated with peregrines and their birds risked attack. [it didn't stop them racing there tho] Fanciers living in these areas obviously cannot avoid flying in them, but fanciers in the Midlands can. There is no doubt that the planning of race programmes could also reduce the level of losses [to raptors].. If fanciers are unwilling to put their own house in order then it is unrealistic to expect conservation agencies and governments to do it for them.'

 

BHW Feb 2001 - New trials commisioned by Confederation of Long Distance Racing Pigeon Unions of GB and Ireland to test use of deterrents - 'Predation is a nationwide problem. Peregrines are predominant in Scotland, Cumbria, Wales, Devon and Cornwall.'

  

[Fair Play]

Pigeon racing is for "sportsmen" and supposed to be fair years ago we had the debate, channel racing - mid day liberation so everyone was on a level playing field with the birds staying out a night and we flew the West Coast so that the prevailing wind pushed us to the centre right heading North, flying East Coast with the prevailing West wind tends to push the birds up the East Coast then the dogleg back across the country heading West into the wind. I know most of this is old hat but it would be interesting to find out the percentages of national wins Borders v East v North v West. I don't think you would have to be a "Rocket Scientist" to guess the outcome

[johno]

thw radio trials were from gretna. ask mr lynch.

[johno]

fair play rennes dol nantes and most of the replacements lay slighty to the west of due south to cocksburn path haddington etc. a sw wind which is the prevailing wind in these parts would be a distinct advantage to the flyers in the east. also measurement from the westerly liberation sites meant ther was an added advantage to lying east. anyone with a basic grip on geography and measurement will come to the conclusion that flying south north to scotland is heavily biased against westery locations. the recent move to more easterly liberation sites had lead to consistent representations of all regions and sections in the first 20 open in old bird national racing. is this not proof enough?

[Fair Play]

Very few are ever remembered for being second "Always the bridesmaid but never the bride"

I can remember Matt White of Paisley winning a National in the West and A? Hart of Dumbarton won the young bird National, anybody else?

[johno]

jimmy nash of croy

[DECKY]

Ian McGhie and John Cosgrove won Nantes, but thats the real chance we have got to win a National.The further we go , the bigger the chance of getting a top open position.I totally agree with everything youve said ( FAIRPLAY & JOHNO ). Nash and White won Rennes when there were 1000s of birds going from the west, although as you rightly said, National winners in the west are very scarce.

[Fair Play]

Just to put a bit of perspective on it G.White of Dumbarton recently took second prize in one of the one loft races with one he bred I just wonder if it had been flying up here how it would have fared. The one loft races may be the way to go as it is a level playing field and a chance to test your birds against the best.

[johno]

fair play i worked out the figures a few years ago from national results. the east and south always have been to the fore. there has always been a heavy bias towards the east. this was even true in the early days of nationals in scotland when the bulk of birds entered from the west. i think the west has managed to win around 34 nationals up to date. a good number of these were won pre 1950. anyone who studies the results will notice quickly that the west faces an almost impossible task. the past 6 or 7 seven years have show a significant improvement in overall perfomance from the west. the bias though is still noticeably in favour of the east. if we go back to rennes sartilly etc the west sectin could be won timing 4 or five hours after the east and the south, this is no longer happening. even ybs are getting nearer while still not fully competing.