Stock Birds Pedigree - missing info?

[Guest]

Just been looking at an advert for an entire clearance sale.

 

There's a lot of stock pigeons for sale, and all the usual ancestor details are given in the pedigree, together with their performances.  

 

But the advert doesn't include any details on the children these stock pigeons have produced, and their performances. I think that most adverts for stock birds seem to leave that out?

 

Surely the most important thing to know about a stock pigeon is the results achieved by its progeny, not its ancestors? Without those progeny details, how do you rank the stock birds on offer, choose between them and know you've made the right choice?

[sammy]

spot on bruno thats just the crap thats getting sold

[me]

Just been looking at an advert for an entire clearance sale.

 

There's a lot of stock pigeons for sale, and all the usual ancestor details are given in the pedigree, together with their performances.  

 

But the advert doesn't include any details on the children these stock pigeons have produced, and their performances. I think that most adverts for stock birds seem to leave that out?

 

Surely the most important thing to know about a stock pigeon is the results achieved by its progeny, not its ancestors? Without those progeny details, how do you rank the stock birds on offer, choose between them and know you've made the right choice?

 

Is that a big sale that is to be held in central Scotland in the very near future by any chance Bruno?

 

 

[sapper756]

As I,ve said before, birds for sale, the FULL ring number should be printed, not for example; SU02ml. this leaves it open to the seller to sell any number of birds under this guise. I have heard of others doing this, saying "only2 birds" but if the demand asks for more they suddenly are able to ,meet the demand > > >

[Guest Greig the doo Drysdale]

 

Is that a big sale that is to be held in central Scotland in the very near future by any chance Bruno?

 

 

am going to the one your on about me

[ALF]

WHAT SALE IS THAT THEN?

[Guest Greig the doo Drysdale]

It's in the homing world his week

[ALF]

It's in the homing world his week

 

NO READ IT YET ;D ;D

[me]

 

am going to the one your on about me

 

 

Look out for "me" I'll be the one with the red rose in his white tuxedo, wearing a "Panama" and a pink scarf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ALF]

 

 

Look out for "me" I'll be the one with the red rose in his white tuxedo, wearing a "Panama" and a pink scarf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AYE WELL AM SAYING NOWT AULD YIN :X :X :X :X :X :X :X :X :X

[Guest]

Yes its Dale Newcombe, real tragic case, but knowing who it is highlights the dilemna:-

 

There are 86 stock pigeons there .... real class pigeons ... real class ancestors ... real class performances ... so how do you choose 'your best bet' from 86 on offer when there are no details given on any of their progeny? (always excluding the younger pigeons which haven't had a chance yet)

 

[me]

Yes its Dale Newcombe, real tragic case, but knowing who it is highlights the dilemna:-

 

There are 86 stock pigeons there .... real class pigeons ... real class ancestors ... real class performances ... so how do you choose 'your best bet' from 86 on offer when there are no details given on any of their progeny? (always excluding the younger pigeons which haven't had a chance yet)

 

Give Joe Murphy a "bell" believe he put the advert together maybe he can give you more details.

 

Although giving the sad circumstances behind the sale maybe it was a bit difficult to get exact details of the birds. On the other hand remember that space is tight and the idea is to attract people to the sale and there might be more detailed info on the pens.

 

[ALF]

I THINK A LOT OF STOCK BIRDS THAT HAVE'NT BRED ANYTHING COULD BE IN THE WRONG HANDS AND NOWT TO DO WITH THE BIRDS AT ALL...IT'S DOWN TO THE FANCIERS WHO HAVE THEM AND I INCLUDE MYSELF IN THAT CATEGORY ASWELL BEFORE ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING :P ;D ;D

[Guest]

Not sure on that one Alf, a stock pigeon must be capable of passing on the stuff that matters to its children. Know what you mean (proper management) but good pigeons will win in spite of their managers.  

[ALF]

Not sure on that one Alf, a stock pigeon must be capable of passing on the stuff that matters to its children. Know what you mean (proper management) but good pigeons will win in spite of their managers.  

 

NOT ALL THE TIME THEY WONT BRUNO

[me]

There is something in what both of you are saying (Alf and Bruno), but think of it another way if statistics for % "strike rate" were published I wonder who would be at the top of the list? Furthermore if you added your own "rating" to take account for the location of the fanciers loft, that might tell you something else before you part with your hard earned cash!

[homebird]

Not sure on that one Alf, a stock pigeon must be capable of passing on the stuff that matters to its children. Know what you mean (proper management) but good pigeons will win in spite of their managers.  

 

THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE MITOCHONDRIA IS PASSED ON FROM THE MATERNAL LINE.so it would be for me a big plus if the hen had a history  that produced winners or good perfomers.It would be one factor that would sway me to part with money, :-/

[me]

 

THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE MITOCHONDRIA IS PASSED ON FROM THE MATERNAL LINE.so it would be for me a big plus if the hen had a history  that produced winners or good perfomers.It would be one factor that would sway me to part with money, :-/

 

Not exactly true but for sure any dooman will keep the hen that lays "the golden eggs" wrapped in cotton wool. On the other hand the "double "x" cock" would be wrapped even tighter!!

 

[PIGEON_MAN]

Just been looking at an advert for an entire clearance sale.

 

There's a lot of stock pigeons for sale, and all the usual ancestor details are given in the pedigree, together with their performances.  

 

But the advert doesn't include any details on the children these stock pigeons have produced, and their performances. I think that most adverts for stock birds seem to leave that out?

 

Surely the most important thing to know about a stock pigeon is the results achieved by its progeny, not its ancestors? Without those progeny details, how do you rank the stock birds on offer, choose between them and know you've made the right choice?

 

I thought I was the only one who thought that way Bruno,you have only got to look at some of the birds for sale on here at the enormous prices peple want just because they are brother or sister  of some champion or won lots of races,like you when buying a bird for stock i,m more concerned on what it,s bred than if it,s a brother sister or whatever to some big winner.There will still be lots of people at the sale who will pay enormous prices though I bet.

 

[JADE]

The fact that many of the birds on offer are bred down from top national winning bloodlines obviously increases the chance of producing winners BUT there is never a guarantee. You pays your money and you take your chances and I bet there will be plenty big prices paid. I would say more chance of picking up a good un at this sale than the majority of the birds advertised weekly for sale with loads of paper pedigrees but very little performance to back them up

[EAGLEOWL]

 

I thought I was the only one who thought that way Bruno,you have only got to look at some of the birds for sale on here at the enormous prices peple want just because they are brother or sister  of some champion or won lots of races,like you when buying a bird for stock i,m more concerned on what it,s bred than if it,s a brother sister or whatever to some big winner.There will still be lots of people at the sale who will pay enormous prices though I bet.

 

what i cannot understand everyone as a stock loft ,they keep buying pigeons in every year because there the bees knees ,do they kill off all there old stock birds or sell them on as excellent breeders of winners.

 

people are obsessed with pedigrees ,i only keep four pair of stock yet they had to win and breed winners to get into the stock loft flying at my lofts ,

 

i must admit i dont buy pigeons then i dont sell them .

 

if there not good enough for me there not good enough for you.

 

but then again if i bought a pigeon for a thousand pounds and it bred rubbish would i kill it or sell it on claiming every win in my lofts where from this pigeon. ;D

 

sadly i see this far to often ,would i sell me stock birds that has taken twenty years of breeding and racing them ,your joking six lottery numbers couldnt buy my life times work.to me there the best birds in the world to others there crap but thats life .

 

if i bought a bird for a large amount of money i would want dna tests to prove it was from them their champions not a piece of paper saying it was  ;D ;D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EAGLEOWL]

The fact that many of the birds on offer are bred down from top national winning bloodlines obviously increases the chance of producing winners BUT there is never a guarantee. You pays your money and you take your chances and I bet there will be plenty big prices paid. I would say more chance of picking up a good un at this sale than the majority of the birds advertised weekly for sale with loads of paper pedigrees but very little performance to back them up

 

i would agree dale always purchased the best distance birds from around the british isles ,never afraid to put his hand in his pocket ,but theres never a guarentee but your right if you want the blood to help improve your distance birds im sure these are the ones ,im sure plenty of fanciers would like to have dales record of success hes had over the years ,

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

The fact that many of the birds on offer are bred down from top national winning bloodlines obviously increases the chance of producing winners BUT there is never a guarantee. You pays your money and you take your chances and I bet there will be plenty big prices paid. I would say more chance of picking up a good un at this sale than the majority of the birds advertised weekly for sale with loads of paper pedigrees but very little performance to back them up

 

There's 86 top class pigeons for sale. You can't by all of them. Some must be better producers than others. But that info is missing. So how do you increase your chances of landing a top producer?

[me]

 

There's 86 top class pigeons for sale. You can't by all of them. Some must be better producers than others. But that info is missing. So how do you increase your chances of landing a top producer?

 

there will be a few "bargains" but you will have to "think about it", but after having a quick glance at the list they might not be as obvous to some as others.

 

[Guest]

 

THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE MITOCHONDRIA IS PASSED ON FROM THE MATERNAL LINE.so it would be for me a big plus if the hen had a history  that produced winners or good perfomers.It would be one factor that would sway me to part with money, :-/

 

Not sure that I follow you. As I understand it, mitochondrial DNA can only be passed on by the hen, but is passed to both the cock & hen youngster in the egg.

 

But there is no getting away from the fact that each parent contributes 'an equal share' so if there are a mated pair producing the goods there's no point buying just one of them, you need to have both.