cemetary Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Hi Jimmy, Thanks for your comments mate, its just that we had to inform the judges, and also let the members no that its been cancelled, and also inform the club tonight about whats happened, lets hope they get things cleared up and we can continue with our shows eh, it breaks up the winter times having a couple of shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 My dad just phoned me and he has been in touch with a friend of his that works for Defra he said " The reason all the shows etc have been stopped is because they havnt found where this new outbreak originated from and until they do they will keep all restrictions in Force" so the sooner they find the source the better for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCHEQHEN Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Maybe bruno or somebody could decipher this below - but doesn't look to me as if poultry outside the restricted zones requires a licence - so why pick on pigeons? http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/pdf/h5n1-movementmatrix071113.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Taken from Defra site The General Licence issued under Regulation 6 of the Preventive Measures (England) Regulations 2006 (Link to OPSI website) on 14 August is therefore revoked. The ban has been put in place because of the high risk nature of bird gatherings and our current uncertainty of the epidemiology of this disease. We will keep this ban under review as the disease situation develops. However, events can continue if they only involve a single bird or birds which are normally kept together so do not pose an increased risk of disease spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Girl Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Is there any chance of this spreading over the big puddle? Likely this is an unfounded worry - but I don't feel like dealing with any issues come pre-fair for my birds. .-. All it needs I would suppose, woul dbe one migratory bird to reach th eUS, and form there it could easily spread like wildfire.. And my other question is, is it true the family/genus Corvidae {Crows, ravens, jays} are more susceptible to said Bird Flu, or was my friend just trying to impress me with his "knowledge"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCHEQHEN Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Is there any chance of this spreading over the big puddle? Likely this is an unfounded worry - but I don't feel like dealing with any issues come pre-fair for my birds. .-. All it needs I would suppose, woul dbe one migratory bird to reach th eUS, and form there it could easily spread like wildfire.. And my other question is, is it true the family/genus Corvidae {Crows, ravens, jays} are more susceptible to said Bird Flu, or was my friend just trying to impress me with his "knowledge"? Haven't seen any evidence or reports of this in crows - seems to be more swans found with it - but is this because swans are big and more noticeable especially when dead - a dead crow would be harder to spot being black and smaller in size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Maybe bruno or somebody could decipher this below - but doesn't look to me as if poultry outside the restricted zones requires a licence - so why pick on pigeons? http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/pdf/h5n1-movementmatrix071113.pdf Usually no movement restrictions outwith a Zone, or thro it, irrespective of which disease is involved.. The restrictions in force are on 'gatherings' i.e. shows, and apply to 'hobby' birds, whether thats canaries, pigeons, parrots or poultry, and applies throughout Great Britain.. Poultry trade carries on as normal outside the Zone, sales, slaughter, export ... and this is where we have a cast-iron case for complaint - avian flu is a disease of poultry - why can that be said? Because they die in their thousands if they catch it - and the evidence is that it is the poultry trade itself that helps spread it ... so that means it is the poultry trade that is the high risk activity, yet it is allowed to continue, and canary or pigeon shows, which are extremely low risk activities, are stopped.. An entirely useless and ineffective strategy for preventing disease spreading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Is there any chance of this spreading over the big puddle? Likely this is an unfounded worry - but I don't feel like dealing with any issues come pre-fair for my birds. .-. All it needs I would suppose, woul dbe one migratory bird to reach th eUS, and form there it could easily spread like wildfire.. And my other question is, is it true the family/genus Corvidae {Crows, ravens, jays} are more susceptible to said Bird Flu, or was my friend just trying to impress me with his "knowledge"? You have it / have had it recently in Canada. Spread is likely via the migratory path over the top of the world Russia / Iceland / Alaska & Canada, and from there south. Your friend is wrong. Most susceptible are ducks, followed by geese, and chickens. Redcheqhen is spot-on about swans - they are known as 'sentinels' in that they are usually the first dead birds found, obviously, from their size they can't be missed, but they aren't thought to carry it, 'only catch it & die'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 So does that mean a big pigeon sale planned for next weekend in central scotland will have to be cancelled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 So does that mean a big pigeon sale planned for next weekend in central scotland will have to be cancelled? If you are talking about Dale Newcombe - as the birds all come from 'one place' - Dale Newcombe's lofts - the sale is OK to go ahead as it is not considered a 'gathering'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 If you are talking about Dale Newcombe - as the birds all come from 'one place' - Dale Newcombe's lofts - the sale is OK to go ahead as it is not considered a 'gathering'. Exactly Bruno, but the birds will be bought by individual fanciers and dispersed throughtout the country, so if one of his birds (theoretically) have h5ni then it is being spread all over the land in exactly the same way as if an individual bird at a show might (theoretically) have it and pass it on to be distributed by other entries all over the country. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. No logic, no commonsense just bull****!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Exactly Bruno, but the birds will be bought by individual fanciers and dispersed throughtout the country, so if one of his birds (theoretically) have h5ni then it is being spread all over the land in exactly the same way as if an individual bird at a show might (theoretically) have it and pass it on to be distributed by other entries all over the country. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. No logic, no commonsense just bull****!! Can't defend the indefensible, me. Train your pigeons yourself, no restrictions or requirements; train with a mate, you need to approach local ADHO and give them your intended training programme... ................. all seems to make perfect sense to DEFRA. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOVEScot Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Exactly Bruno, but the birds will be bought by individual fanciers and dispersed throughtout the country, so if one of his birds (theoretically) have h5ni then it is being spread all over the land in exactly the same way as if an individual bird at a show might (theoretically) have it and pass it on to be distributed by other entries all over the country. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. No logic, no commonsense just bull****!! Exactly Just a thought, if that one loft is auctioning it's birds then they will be going to different lofts after the sale, why risk your stock buying any birds at this time, you would have to be very certain where they are coming from And with it being the type that can pass on to humans and it is discovered in wild birds, consider the risk to you and your loved ones, no pigeon is worth that for me anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I thought all shows were to be cancelled. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Exactly Bruno, but the birds will be bought by individual fanciers and dispersed throughtout the country, so if one of his birds (theoretically) have h5ni then it is being spread all over the land in exactly the same way as if an individual bird at a show might (theoretically) have it and pass it on to be distributed by other entries all over the country. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. No logic, no commonsense just bull****!! yes , this is quite right ,, but the big problem is , defra dont think like that ??? why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I thought all shows were to be cancelled. :-/ defra,s ruling is" all bird gatherings"" now this can be interperated in differant ways :-/ :-/ :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOVEScot Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 yes , this is quite right ,, but the big problem is , defra dont think like that ??? why? It's a case of fighting their corner and covering their backs, imagine if they never took any steps and the flu spread by one they missed, we the public would hang them:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 defra,s ruling is" all bird gatherings"" now this can be interperated in differant ways :-/ :-/ :-/ So the meetings/gatherings/events/shows can all take place but without the birds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Exactly Just a thought, if that one loft is auctioning it's birds then they will be going to different lofts after the sale, why risk your stock buying any birds at this time, you would have to be very certain where they are coming from And with it being the type that can pass on to humans and it is discovered in wild birds, consider the risk to you and your loved ones, no pigeon is worth that for me anyway Think the point is that there is no risk to pigeons or humans. Its Sunday name is 'a self limiting disease'. Under laboratory conditions pigeons have been given 100 to 1000 times the dose they could encounter in the wild. Not surprisingly, some got sick ... and died. A chicken is one of the most AI-susceptible animals, they become H5N1 production factories, there were healthy chickens in beside the sick pigeons, but none of the chickens caught the disease. The virus can't multiply in the pigeons body too well and can't produce enough to infect any other animal in contact with them. A pigeon coming home infected with AI the worst that can happen is that it will die. A self limiting disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 So the meetings/gatherings/events/shows can all take place but without the birds? sounds crazy ,,,but yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOVEScot Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Think the point is that there is no risk to pigeons or humans. Its Sunday name is 'a self limiting disease'. Under laboratory conditions pigeons have been given 100 to 1000 times the dose they could encounter in the wild. Not surprisingly, some got sick ... and died. A chicken is one of the most AI-susceptible animals, they become H5N1 production factories, there were healthy chickens in beside the sick pigeons, but none of the chickens caught the disease. The virus can't multiply in the pigeons body too well and can't produce enough to infect any other animal in contact with them. A pigeon coming home infected with AI the worst that can happen is that it will die. A self limiting disease. Your on the ball Bruno ;D ;D ;D Lets hope it does not mutate :'( :'( :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 It's a case of fighting their corner and covering their backs, imagine if they never took any steps and the flu spread by one they missed, we the public would hang them:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( Ok agree with you up to a point, so lets assume a well known guy who is selling his doos off lets them out and they go fielding just a few days before the sale is it still safe? Or lets assume a guy whose loft is within a restricted area but who has not let his doos out for 3 weeks and is transporting them 100 miles to sell them off is this deemed to be even safer? Answers on a stamped undressed elephant to DEFRA ,first correct answer drawn from the postbag wins free entry to the pigeon show (without pigeons) of your choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 So the meetings/gatherings/events/shows can all take place but without the birds? thats right and no HEN nights either ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Your on the ball Bruno ;D ;D ;D Lets hope it does not mutate :'( :'( :'( Well it has mutated. H5N1 was born in Aberdeen in 1957 on a chicken farm. It took until 1997 in Hong Kong before it was able to jump the species barrier and became capable of infecting and killing humans. In 2007, the strains circulating in Europe are said to be more capable of infecting mammals than birds - there was a spate of cats & dogs infected in western europe - and researchers said that this was the reason for it, [maybe eating dead birds?] But in 10 years it hasn't been able to do that all important jump : capable of human to human infection, at least not regularly and not easily, so the human pandemic that everyone is worried about still seems a ways off, and possibly H5N1 has had its chance, and failed? and there's something else going to happen on pandemic front, maybe a totally different virus? So when you hear the hype about 'the deadly strain', aye its deadly all right, for poultry, kills them by the thousand, but except on two occasions on a lake in Mongolia, and a lake in Germany, wild bird deaths are peppercorn numbers and racing pigeons are ZERO deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Ok agree with you up to a point, so lets assume a well known guy who is selling his doos off lets them out and they go fielding just a few days before the sale is it still safe? Or lets assume a guy whose loft is within a restricted area but who has not let his doos out for 3 weeks and is transporting them 100 miles to sell them off is this deemed to be even safer? Answers on a stamped undressed elephant to DEFRA ,first correct answer drawn from the postbag wins free entry to the pigeon show (without pigeons) of your choice! i see where your comming from , me, but am i not right in thinking that no birds in a restricted zone can enter or leave [any type] maybe im wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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