DO YOU, believe in pedigree's

[DEEJAY]

There's a saying that came from Belgium concerning an American fly-er that wanted to purchase some good stock for his loft and paid a large amount of money for these birds which had vast pedigree's,  the Belgium fly-er laughingly said to his friends "I sold a few pedigree's to an American and i threw in a few birds for free"!   How many flyer's here really rely on pedigree's, I myself only use them as a base line, because a pedigree does not guarantee any bird will be a winner, having said that, it does offer a good starting point, but i would never count on it to produce winners, only flying, training, and culling will get you there, the pedigree birds only have the advantage that over many years all the training and culling has produced a TYPE of bird which may or may not produce winners, however still no GAURANTEE!  Interested to hear other's opinion's on this subject!

[gangster]

GOOD POSTING I BELIEVE ALSO THE PEDIGREES ONLY A REFERENCE NOTHING MORE, IF ANYONE BELIEVES OTHERWISE..PM ME ILL SEND YA THE BEST,PITY NONE OF THEM FLEW AS WELL...........................INFACT WERE THEY ARE BURIED I CAN GET JACK TO GROW SO THEY WERE NOT EVEN GOOD FERTILISER.............

[PIGEON_MAN]

Just wondering how many thousands of pounds will be spent (WASTED)this weekend by people relying on pedigrees.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Just wondering how many thousands of pounds will be spent (WASTED)this weekend by people relying on pedigrees.

 

aye you are right, how much will be wasted, lookin through the bhw supplement after blackpoool nobody will have any good birds left as they are all on sale ,

as they say on the piers ,,everyone a winner

[Guest coxy]

the pedigree isnt worth the paper its wrote on if the bird does no perform in breeding or racing

[blackjack]

A pedigree is as good as the man or woman who wrote it.

[Ronnie]

Aye but what has a beginner like myself got to go on?Its ok saying go to the best local flier but most of the flyers around my way are to scared to give pigeons away or sell them because the competition may prove there not as good as they think they are.

The pedigree has to be proven winners not just a strain.Things like bred for stock from such and such a pair is no good in my eyes.you want Dam won so many positions sire is a proven breeder and the likes.

[maverick]

ONLY ONE PEDIGREE NEEDED THE BASKET.

[mickmcgrevy]

Pedigrees have there place, provided that the person who write's them is truthfull.

 

It will show how the parents have performed in previous generations, however it has allready been said  THERE ARE NO GUARENTEES   but you have a better percentage of chances of breeding something worth having if the parents / grand parents etc have proved themselves.

 

Look how many race horses are bred which turn out to be no good,  but they don't try to breed them from cart horses.

 

All the best

 

Mick

[Roland]

Pedigrees are only as good as the man is honest ... all the way down the line.

Rather see the Cards with the Sec's phone number available lol.

[swilcox]

If you look at any fancier in my opinion there are indicators to whether he/she is telling the truth regarding pedigrees.

 

For example an average loft may contain 12 pairs of stock and 40 old bird pairs lets say. In 2 rounds they breed 70 young birds from various combinations. This loft wins in 1 season 1st Nat, 3 x 1st Combine, 10 x 1st Club and 25 other prizes in the top 30 of the combine. For breeding he owns 7 pairs of Van Reets, 3 pairs of Busschearts and 2 pairs of Janssen pigeons that are new to the loft. His main stock bird is called Billy Boy, he also has a 1/2 brother and sister to to Billy Boy and all 3 are Van Reets, He also has a Good Busscheart pair called the Diamond Pair.

 

Now a loft report follows this super season spot the truthful one and the false one.

 

Report 1

 

Mr A has had a brilliant season, his National Winner De 50 was bred from a yearling son of his Main Breeder Billy Boy when paired to a Busscheart that was lent him by Mr Jones a close friend. 2 of the combine winners were also related to Billy Boy and are bred down from 1/2 brother and sisters one crossed with a busscheart from the Diamond Pair and the other from a new line of Janssens!! The Diamond Pair have served Mr A well esp from the harder races and the Janssens which purchased from Radstock Stud are showing some real promise.

 

Report 2

 

Mr A must have one of the most complete Satf Van Reet teams of all time and all bred from Champion Billy Boy, this years Nat winner was bred from Billy Boy when paired to His 1/2 sister and they also bred 2 other combine winners. a 3rd combine winner was bred from a 1/2 brother to Billy Boy when paired to a dtr of the National winner which is bred from Billy Boy and his 1/2 sister!! The staf van reets are sometimes crossed with pigeons from the Diamond pair to get them to fly longer distances but no other families are kept.

 

Which one would you trust????

 

Pigeon breeder is like a Christmas Tree, you bring in your foundation breeders and the geans spread out as you go down and on the may you add a little, in reality champions are bred from all sorts of pairing and not just the perfect ones you read about in the press!!!!

 

Study the pedigrees of some of our national winners on www.raymondmoleveld.nl and you will see its not uncommon for champion to skip a generation of 2 and then come back out!!!

 

Stuart

[mark]

A pedigree is as good as the man or woman who wrote it.

that is so true its spooky

 

 

[PIGEON_MAN]

I dont think that the integrity of the breeder or racer of a pigeon is what the question is about here it,s wether or not you rely on the pedigree to be a guidance as to wether the bird will be a winner or breeder of winners.

[ch pied]

ONLY ONE PEDIGREE NEEDED THE BASKET.

 

100%

[Roland]

Possibly true that Pigeon Man, so in that annalasise I'd say that very few indeed rely on pedigrees. That's enforcing the asumption that very few in real terms actually bother, unless selling birds. Or spout down the club.

[Guest]

pigeons will make their own pedigree wether it be for racing or breeding i think to much emphasis is placed on pedigree rather than the pigeon for type and conformity as has been said on this forum else where just look at the sales that will be going on this weekend and they are all champions ,probably the only time they saw the basket was for blackpool .

[PIGEON_MAN]

I would be very interested to read  what the 7 people on here who said that they wouldn,t buy a pigeon without a pedigree have to say,how about it lads or lasses give us your reasons why, i really would be interested to know.

[mark]

hello tony,

                 alot of people on here are blinded by a pedigree you only have to look on the for sale page has the bird got a pedigree didnt realise a pedigree could fly. its not worth the paper its written on only my opinion though,

[sj irving jnr]

its the pigeon that does the flying not the paper.

[Guest REDFOXKRAUTHS]

IF YOU THINK SOME WON CAN SELL A PIGEON AS SAY FOR EXAMPLE SON OF TOEY AND GIVE THE PEDIGREE FOR IT AND IT CULD BE OUT OF SOME THING ELSE!

[Guest REDFOXKRAUTHS]

LET THE BASKET BE YOUR PEDIGREE DONT TRUST A LITTLE BIT OF PAPER!

[PIGEON_MAN]

hello tony,

                 alot of people on here are blinded by a pedigree you only have to look on the for sale page has the bird got a pedigree didnt realise a pedigree could fly. its not worth the paper its written on only my opinion though,

 

This is exactly the way i see it but it would be interesting to know what the thinking is of a person that wouldn,t buy a pigeon without a pedigree.

[Roland]

I'd like to take that further Tony. Given a choice of a genuine pedigree pigeon and a bird that has parents that have won good races which one would most choose. A step further, would anyone be likely to pay a lot more cash for a good Pedigree bird of fine breeding, than the one who's parents have both won.

[Guest]

went to sale about 15 year ago needed a hen just to race a cock to bought a wee red hen for three pound no pedigree bred 4 young of her lost one as y b

the other three flew maidstone as yearlings ,sent two to the inland nat frome got on the result with both birds ,the other one scored the following year frome frome one a red hen recorded 28th w/s rennes and bred a 40th open lille lanrks fed timed at nine o clock at night as yearling all that with no pedigree to look at .

[birdman55678]

A pedigree is fine if used for a guideline, I like to have the paper just to see whatever has happened in the past and who has bred what, but I would much rather have the race results than the pedigree.  I have a few well pedigreed birds but my best is some I bought from another fancier with no pedigrees, just verifiable race results.  Ed