Families of birds

[Guest IB]

Credit should and is given, you see it in the pigeon press - a pic of the bird, a caption 'won such and such' bred by X, raced by Y.

 

But surely if X had bred a family of birds over many years, it would not be right if Y said the winner was a Dordin or some other strain? It is X's family. Furthermore, the winner may be a successful cross Y introduced, it may only be one line in Y's loft, so credit has got be shared out amongst the right folk.  

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Once the egg hatches in my loft,they are my birds  

 

Exact same opinion, once a bird is hatched in my loft it is my bird in my family, do not have to wait a year or twenty years, born and bred in my loft makes it a member of my family of pigeons.

[Beanz]

George,

           I will always give credit to the fancier who supplies me with pigeons but as you know most of the birds nowadays are crossed anyway, as already stated on here the belgians & Dutch cross winning genes not pedigrees. I do believe that you should give credit to fanciers who have helped you along the way.

 

 

                                                                Paul

[jimmy white]

Anyone claim to have their own family of birds or do you just race someone elses named birds?

 

how far does a family stretch ,,my mother,s , mother,s  sisters brother is father to eddie baker lord mayer of huyton ,,hes blood related to me , but could i call him my family ;D ;D ;D ;D,,,no i dont think so , as we could then go on forever ;D

all pigeons are mongrels , whether we like it or not ;D     but some are expertly, selectively bred, to produce good pigeons    to my mind family does not come into the equasion  :-/ :-/ :-/

[Guest Hjaltland]

So, now, for argument's sake, say I've kept pigeons for 25 years, they've done well, been carefully bred and raced out hard, are recognised in the sport for their amazing ability and good looks... they might even take tickets at the Blackpool show, I'm a generous guy and give some youngsters to someone and he in his turn wins the YB national! and turns round and says they are his strain.... aren't you entitled to be just a little pissed with the guy? I should think I would.  

 

[Guest Vic]

Good debate, the last two postings were excellent.  Cheers, Vic.

[Lennut Tar]

i fly heinz 57

 

;D ;D ;D  Isn't that amazing ??????   :D what a small world etc we live in here. We both race the same family so to speak   :P I hope yours are as successful as mine, if not better   :) . I've had mine for 35 years & they love head winds & the distance so to speak, & when I talk to the modern generation here & they ask me, what I have etc, (I'm honest) & I say it's either heinz 57 variety or licorice all sorts so to speak & they look at me as if I'm stupid  ;D ;D ;D

"But then"   ;) you may be able to relate to that.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

[Merlin]

Guess there is no hard and fast rule regarding this question,its like pigeons in general,Many roads lead to Rome,one point which is basically good manners,origin of birds,strains/lines/ should definitely in all cases be given credibility

[Tony C]

Its not until we change our psyche and start asking the question ‘what’s your family of pigeons based around’ instead of ‘what pigeons do you fly’ before things will start to change. We should put the onus on the asker, as it stands now if you ask someone what pigeons they fly and they respond ‘my own family’ you immediately think to yourself the reply was in the negative. Sometimes were our own worse enemies.

[Guest]

 

how far does a family stretch ,,my mother,s , mother,s  sisters brother is father to eddie baker lord mayer of huyton ,,hes blood related to me , but could i call him my family ;D ;D ;D ;D,,,no i dont think so , as we could then go on forever ;D

all pigeons are mongrels , whether we like it or not ;D     but some are expertly, selectively bred, to produce good pigeons    to my mind family does not come into the equasion  :-/ :-/ :-/

 

No, I don't think you could, although he is from your family base bloodline, he isn't a close family member! Janssen Bros famous Bange of 59, a progenator of top breeders, was G/sire of Arjan, the Golden Ball, Stamvater, and Le Bon Reproducteur. Arjan was Janssen Bros, sold to Louella. The Golden Ball was Jules Gallez sold to the Liverpool maestro Albert Tarleton. Stamvater was Valentin Muller then sold to Louella. And finally, Le Bon Reproductuer, of Maurice Verheye, also later sold to Louella. These four world famous breeders were all from the same base bloodline, but were they family? They all formed the base of a successful family for the respective owners in my opinion, but were cultivated different ways by the 4 different people!

 

I agree with the mongrels statement up to a point, as still, they are your mongrels! You cultivate them to your ideals, therefore in my opinion, they are being bred, produced, to certain type, conforming specifics that you yourself are trying to attain! That is where I think, family does actually come into it! I think Tony C's statement is spot on!

Great debate, please keep it up lads and lasses!  

[Guest]

So, now, for argument's sake, say I've kept pigeons for 25 years, they've done well, been carefully bred and raced out hard, are recognised in the sport for their amazing ability and good looks... they might even take tickets at the Blackpool show, I'm a generous guy and give some youngsters to someone and he in his turn wins the YB national! and turns round and says they are his strain.... aren't you entitled to be just a little pissed with the guy? I should think I would.  

 

LOL, another very good point Hjatland! Yes, I agree with you, I would be p*ssed with him aswell. Have been actually in this boat several times, people not giving credit where credit was due! This is where the guy should say, they are Jan Aarden/Stichelbaut/Busschaert whatever based family of birds, which i was gifted/purchased from Hjatland. Therefore the credit being duly given!

 

PS; You once asked me if I could play the blues on my guitar Hjatland, well, the ex-wife took the guitar when she left mate, so i've got the blues my friend Oh how i miss ........ my guitar!  ;D

[Jumbo]

So, now, for argument's sake, say I've kept pigeons for 25 years, they've done well, been carefully bred and raced out hard, are recognised in the sport for their amazing ability and good looks... they might even take tickets at the Blackpool show, I'm a generous guy and give some youngsters to someone and he in his turn wins the YB national! and turns round and says they are his strain.... aren't you entitled to be just a little pissed with the guy? I should think I would.  

 

Kenny i hope some of the birds you send down wins the Y/B nat and i will splash your name all over the BHW   :) :)

[Guest Hjaltland]

 

PS; You once asked me if I could play the blues on my guitar Hjatland, well, the ex-wife took the guitar when she left mate, so i've got the blues my friend Oh how i miss ........ my guitar!  ;D

 

LOLOLOL... just have to go get yourself another...(guitar)  then you can write the song!!

[Michael J Burden]

So, now, for argument's sake, say I've kept pigeons for 25 years, they've done well, been carefully bred and raced out hard, are recognised in the sport for their amazing ability and good looks... they might even take tickets at the Blackpool show, I'm a generous guy and give some youngsters to someone and he in his turn wins the YB national! and turns round and says they are his strain.... aren't you entitled to be just a little pissed with the guy? I should think I would.  

 

 

Yes mate if you bred it it is your selection etc.

If he bred it from birds he had off you and had tried and tested them throughout then it is not beyond belief he calls them his strain. I also believe that you as the founder breeder should get some crdit too.

 

[Guest MBpigeonguy]

i agree once birds hatch in my loft they are my family, but i know a guy who has breed the best birds around her for 30 years and hes still scared to call them his birds,

[Roland]

Well Jim Biss, through his mate, bought many great Distance birds... and also bought big later from Dordin, and a few others etc. Yes because every one knew etc. these got a mention... But I always heard Jim Biss pigeons...

[Whats it called Cumbernauld]

Lets take out for a minute where the birds come from. You see it is much more important for the new start to ask a seasoned fancier how he does it rather than what he does it with (Strain)

 

1.How he trains

2. What he feeds

3. His loft environment

[Whats it called Cumbernauld]

Lets take out for a minute where the birds come from. You see it is much more important for the new start to ask a seasoned fancier how he does it rather than what he does it with (Strain)

 

1. How he trains

2. What he feeds and how he feeds

3. His loft environment

4. and a million other questions.

 

He could be winning out of sight, with whatever strain he has,however the contributing factor is how he managers his birds as above. This Fancier is likely to stay near or around that strain.He knows how to get the best from them. He is the racer of his birds,. As well as of course to the original breeder of these pigeons. it is to him much respect should go.

 

The unsuccessful fancier,it could be argued is still looking for that strain of birds that fit his management system.Here perseverance is the key. To many birds disregarded to easily. I would argue it would take anything up to 7/8 years to fully begin to test a strain. It is at this point, that is the downfall of many aspiring fanciers.

 

Get the real deal initially, and stick with then concentrate on loft management,

learn as much as you can from those that are or have been successfully with these birds

 

When sucess arrives take the accolade you and the original breeder deserves,for you will have earned it.

 

Remember the full and true story ,will not come to light on this, for around ten years.By which time for most fanciers it is to late

 

Sorry to go on on on and  on

 

Thanks for listening

[Guest]

i agree once birds hatch in my loft they are my family, but i know a guy who has breed the best birds around her for 30 years and hes still scared to call them his birds,

 

The guy is probably fearful of the amount of stick he will get from jealous rivals!  

 

[Roland]

Whats it called Cumbernauld, no disrespect, for your points are valid as to how well a fanciers flys. But that is really for another topic, heading, I.e. This is for when is it 'Your' ' Family or Strain. As to whether they are any good or not doesn't arise, though possibly only a few of us would be proud of a loft full losers and dud .. 'Yep they are rubbish.... But are me own familyl ;D ;D

[Guest slugmonkey]

I have too many birds to consider them my family but I think a point you are overlooking is that when a top breeder is breeding a bird and you buy that bird you are buying that fanciers expertise at selecting birds to breed from and race most GREAT fanciers breed from thier own lines and then add in good bloodlines to improve the breed ! a guy that buys some birds and breeds them and then labels them as his own has every right, are you not better off buying a bird off of Piet Deweerd that is 1 generation from a new unrelated bird than you are from Joe Blow down the street with his BLOWS strain I personally will go with the Deweerd bird eventhough it might be bred as 1/2 of his family I am putting my trust in him as a breeder to have selected a better quality bird, a good breeder starts with good birds most of the superstars in this sport started with top notch stock ! Look at how many people the Jannssen brothers put on the map with 1 or 2 pairs if you don't belive me

[Guest CS]

Busseart said it right ... 'When in my loft ... they are Bussearts'.

That for 'Strain' as I see it. Now as for 'Families' I believe a period of 4/5 years is needed to set this up, and like every one else, the all important 'Introduction's' This can / must be still able to be called 'Family'.

 

Agree with you there, mate