Without Predudice : Buyers Beware !!!!!

[OLDYELLOW]

i rung up clarified procedure sent cheques then was informed by the site owner that the bird was ill and was inferior , i asked for another bird via the owners own stock since he had my cheques , after he told me he's sending cheques back i told him at no point did i ask for my cheques be sent back , then i asked for detail of birds owner so i could view the bird to verify if it was indeed ill , i was refused then said banned from site too boot , so owner of bird not at fault , site owner/ auctioneer is 100% at fault , theres other things which i have read in to this but i cant say because could be deemed as liable without knowing the whole facts

[Leroy]

Hi guys, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Im not sure old yellow has a case.

 

Legally - an auction is known as an 'invitation to treat', the potential buyer makes an offer which it is then up to the seller to accept. The seller has the choice whether he accepts that bid or not. Just being the highest bidder doesnt mean the seller has to accept that highest bid.

 

In a straightforward sale/purchase, a bird is on 'offer' and if a buyer then 'accepts' that offer, a binding contract is made, as long as there are no other terms which have been breached.

 

The law of contract revolves around offer and acceptance - an auction lot is not an offer, therefore the seller is in the stronger position.

 

sorry old yellow

 

Lee

[OLDYELLOW]

when an auctons is won and your the highest bidder and paid your money its a legal binding agreement, I now can see why the site has ceased using paypal as its an instant payment and therefore cant send the payment back

[jimmy white]

Letter to the Racing pigeon :

hi there , i would like to compile a letter in which the story starts with me buying a bird at auction , i was the winning bidder of this pigeon and yet the auctioneer wouldn't release the pigeon to me and sent my cheques back thus creating a breach of contract , i contacted The Reddings General Manager who wrote me a reply :

Dear Mr. Kettlestring,

 

Thank you for your message.

 

The RPRA is primarily concerned with the sport of racing and showing homing pigeons. On the face of it, your complaint is about a commercial transaction involving a private sale/auction. If you cannot get satisfaction from the auctioneer then you might want to consult Trading Standards in your local area or the citizens’ advice bureau. However, in my experience these disputes are best resolved between the parties.

 

I hope that this is helpful.

 

David Bills

General Manager

The Royal Pigeon Racing Association

The Reddings

near Cheltenham

Glos GL51 6RN

tel 01452 713529

DDI 01452 858240

mobile 07816 386610

 

I then sent another letter as follows :

 

Hi

 

David

As this matter regards three members of my union it is clearly a union matter that's what i pay my union fees for , it is clear that the sale is in breach of contract which i had completed , the minmum i would expect to happen is that this bird in question ring number be stopped been transferred to anyone else as technicaly my property , therefore a breach of rules has been made , to let this go un noticed and to have this man get away with fraud is totally wrong , i am on various internet sites and have a strong following and they all assume that this is exactly what we pay are union fees for , i  look forward to your reply

Yours in sport

Mark Kettlestring

 

 

After having no reply i have sent a further message

 

I have not yet received a reply to my last email regarding the fraudulent actions of a union member , i shall be taking this up with the Editor of The Racing Pigeon , and let the rest of the fancy know that there union is failing them by protecting these con men .

Yours in sport

Mark Kettlestring

 

As a independant paper  i would like the fancy to know the union they pay there fees for do nothing to protect its members from fraudsters actually there protecting them by doing nothing , If you require any further information ectra , please get in contact the man involved in this is a scribe for there magazine the B.H.W

Yours in sport

Mark Kettlestring

 

a very poor response by" the reddings" carefully selecting a "grey area" in their own rules and "aims for fanciers" they are obviously trying to sweep this under the carpet  , and "not wanting to be involved"   my advice would be go to the citizens advice [i worked there ]  and have them to contact the trading standards ,, also have them contact" the reddings" showing the" citizens advice group" your rpra rule book ,,,,im sure they would sort this matter out,, as no one has to put up with a fraudster ,,,,,i find your actions most admirable old yellow, and wish you well

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Found this if it is of any use to you.

 

 

Buying at auction

What the law says

In most circumstances when you buy goods, the law would require that they:

• match their description. This means they must be as described by the seller. This includes any description on the label. For example, if a pair of sheets is described as fitted, they must be fitted sheets. In most circumstances, it also means that they must conform to any advertising claims made about them; and

• be of satisfactory quality and fit for their purpose. This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. This includes the appearance and finish of the goods and whether they were safe, durable and free from defects (including minor faults).

These requirements are laid down in the Sale of Goods Act 1979. They normally apply to all goods that are bought from a seller who is selling in the course of a business. If the seller is an individual who is not selling in the course of a business, only the first requirement applies – the goods must match their description but they are not required by law to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

Your rights under the Sale of Goods Act apply to all new goods bought at auction and also to second hand goods bought at auction where you did not have the opportunity to attend in person, for example, internet auctions.

However, if you buy at an auction it is possible to lose these rights if:

• the goods are second hand; and

• you have the opportunity to attend the sale in person; and

• you are told that the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) didn't apply or that the goods were sold as seen. This could be by way of a notice or exclusion clause in the catalogue; and

• the auctioneer can show that this was reasonable.

When you buy goods at auction, the buyer enters in to a contract with the owner of the goods, not the auctioneer. This means that if there is a problem with the goods, usually you have to take action against the owner of the goods, not the auction house. The auction house is not obliged to give you the owner's details, so tracing the owner can be difficult. However, the auction house does have some responsibilities, for example, it must not make a false statement about the goods. These responsibilities should be explained in the terms of business of the auction house which must be

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[OLDYELLOW]

then i shall report the bird i bought in question and deal with the owner as well bird now reported   area secatary rung not in till after 12 il keep you updated

[Michael J Burden]

Very good way of finding who it is registered to. The downside is what are you going to do once you know where he lives? Speak to a solicitor or go to small claims or civil court. From what I have heard you pay £50 up front for cort cases and a lot more to get a solicitor involved so in most cases people don't bother.

I would start witht he seller and if you are able write to them, tell them the time and date at which you intend to visit and collect your purchase. Take the amount in cash so they cannot argue that the cheque needs clearing before you can have it.

 

The trouble with pigeons is that they can fly away, and if he says it got out and is lost it is hard to disprove their claimes and you are back to square one.

 

Be interesting to know what Mr Seller has to say on the subject.

 

Good luck

[superstar]

then i shall report the bird i bought in question and deal with the owner as well bird now reported   area secatary rung not in till after 12 il keep you updated

 

Well obviously they are people not to deal with. I personally am a man of my word and always have liked to think others I have delt with are of the same but seems even so called respectable dealers are sometimes no more than crooked. Old Yellow good on you for getting your teeth into this it is obviously an injustice and hope things work out in your favour. All the best to you

[OLDYELLOW]

thanks for all the support ill keep going as long as i can once theres no more doors to knock on i will of done enough to highlight this is going on and in doing so i would of shown others what a few are doing which is my aim and if i can get rules made via the union then i wouldnt have waisted my time , the bird in question is not worth my efforts , it's the principles behind it all that do

[superstar]

Well I quite agree on the point of principle and how it can not be a matter for the union when it involves their members on all side plus the ring is issued by and registered with them beats me. Next time you manage to speak to an official might be a good idea to ask exacty what we pay our fee's for as I understood they were ment to give you as a member some protection in matters like this?

[OLDYELLOW]

well i now have the owners details was suplied with telephone number only , i will firstly ring my area secatary after 12 then ill contact Mr John Owen

[jimmy white]

Very good way of finding who it is registered to. The downside is what are you going to do once you know where he lives? Speak to a solicitor or go to small claims or civil court. From what I have heard you pay £50 up front for cort cases and a lot more to get a solicitor involved so in most cases people don't bother.

I would start witht he seller and if you are able write to them, tell them the time and date at which you intend to visit and collect your purchase. Take the amount in cash so they cannot argue that the cheque needs clearing before you can have it.

 

The trouble with pigeons is that they can fly away, and if he says it got out and is lost it is hard to disprove their claimes and you are back to square one.

 

Be interesting to know what Mr Seller has to say on the subject.

 

Good luck

 

the pigeon can fly away ,, but the cash cant ,, it wouldnt cost old yellow a penny if he went to the cit, advice ,, they would or could provide a lawyer ...acting for the cit advice  via, old yellow,, if need be :-/

[joe61]

dont p*ss about with rpra or cab tell the guy if not sorted today will go to police and them for fraud and do it

 

oh happy days

[OLDYELLOW]

Police wont do anything as a civil matter , it has to be done through the courts , the least you would expect is union backing

[jimmy_bulger]

what do terms and conditions of use , of the said auction site say mark

[OLDYELLOW]

only bit that count would be the clause where an auction may be ended and bird withdrawn from sale at anytime , however this was after the bird was sold and if sold then a contract has been made, but i suggest that the users of auction sites should read this before bidding , i loved the bit where he put the clause in that he could change the rules at anytime too boot now theres dodgy , but rules were valid up to the point of sale if indeed if he has changed them afterwards then hes breached the contract further

[ChrisMaidment08]

even better way is not to bid on site to start with

[OLDYELLOW]

Although i have been bared i wont be using the site of a conman i cant trust him so i wont be using again

[OLDYELLOW]

Reply from GM

Dear Mark,

 

I understand your frustration. If you consider that you have a case under the Rules (on the Website) I suggest that you raise this with your Club. Until then, it remains a commercial arrangement. As you know, a huge number of pigeons are bought and sold each year and the RPRA does not have the resources (or authority) to police this activity or to resolve disputes. There are alternate avenues to do this (eg trading standards and CAB).

 

I hope that this helps

 

David Bills

General Manager

The Royal Pigeon Racing Association

The Reddings

near Cheltenham

Glos GL51 6RN

 

[tippler1]

under the carpet again lol

[ChrisMaidment08]

we should all e mail him and ask what we pay them for and to see his reply???

[Roland]

Whatever happened to name and shame cryteria! Days end I'm afraid, unless the new owner is a decent sort of chappie and sells it to you for the price of the bid - nowt will happen. Be a 'Hole burning in the gut' feeling causes upset and gaining nowt. Wish I was more optimistic, but can't be.

Is just like the RPRA that I wrote about on the other thread.  The East Midland' then new, and still Mr Carlton spoke one tongue to me and fellow members... smiled with open nonchalent hands after. Samr here mark.

Name and shame will be you only slight degree of solevance.

[kirky]

R.P.R.A  rule 135 states that if a reserve is placed on a lot it must be listed in the auction, it is not upto the owner to decied after the bidding as the bird went over the starting bid £50 reserve, it should have been sold to oldyellow, i saw at the end of sale that he had the final bid.

[BLACK W F]

looks like the only way you will solve this is name and shame them but best of luck

[OLDYELLOW]

Well i have just come off the phone to my regional secatary taking the matter up with him , and he pretty says the same as as the GM its a comercial venture and these guys can get away with it scot free even tho i have highlighted it as ungentlemanly conduct , i have been asked to forward my evidence to him , i have no confidence in them wanting or acting on my behalf in this mater im sure this will be deemed as 'NOT THERE PROBLEM'