Why are the continentals way out in front of UK

[Guest Paulo]

Brian's was crossed with a Jos Thone from Ian Stafford whose from up here brought from his stand at some pigeon show.

[Ronnie]

How would you even enter an International race?

And personaly i think the brit birds are as good as anyones but there is to much that is different to compare them.Weather and and race opportunites spring to mind as has been stated.Lol it looks like my fed wont even be racing the channel this year so theres an example straight away.

[Roland]

 

Well why does one advocate Noon Libs’. Must be one hell of an off putting to any genuine Distance race guy, especially those that do, and have created a family to compete on hard days, and the distance.

Surely it’s a farce and a smack in the face for them!

Yes of course it is said that it is so no bird’s can or will cross the channel!

This is what the birds actually need to do, cross the channel etc. and HAVE every help and chance of being it’s loft, home by night fall.

The more truthful side is simply a good middle distance bid can be held up with the true distance bird and hop over the water to time in. This purely to lessen any chance that a good distance may have had of achieving a good result!

Next day is different conditions. Muscles tired and cold need sorting. And they have 150 to 300 miles or more than the South coast birds, and then the east coasters.

A travesty engineered purely for middle distance getting an unfair advantage. Another reason, surely, why the nationals, and internationals are not very well attended.

[OLDYELLOW]

Well why does one advocate Noon Libs’. Must be one hell of an off putting to any genuine Distance race guy, especially those that do, and have created a family to compete on hard days, and the distance.

Surely it’s a farce and a smack in the face for them!

Yes of course it is said that it is so no bird’s can or will cross the channel!

This is what the birds actually need to do, cross the channel etc. and HAVE every help and chance of being it’s loft, home by night fall.

The more truthful side is simply a good middle distance bid can be held up with the true distance bird and hop over the water to time in. This purely to lessen any chance that a good distance may have had of achieving a good result!

Next day is different conditions. Muscles tired and cold need sorting. And they have 150 to 300 miles or more than the South coast birds, and then the east coasters.

A travesty engineered purely for middle distance getting an unfair advantage. Another reason, surely, why the nationals, and internationals are not very well attended.

 

I agree in part that middle distance birds would get an advantage , but you could have sections to incorperate the distances flown in say 50 mile increments then i would split in to 3 sections in each  strip east section central section and west so allthough the merit is given to the fastest velocity the birds that have achieved at the longer distances have there merit as well  

 

[pigeonscout]

To find the best birds I think you have to look to the one loft races around the world. The birds in these lofts come from all over the world and are trained and race on a level playing field. The race becomes bird against bird and not fancier against fancier or system against system. They also take away one of the biggest advantages in pigeon racing loft location.  I often wonder why some of the top names in the sport with their supper fast birds never enter the one loft races?

No one strain or family of birds dominate these races but if it was country against country my money would be on Germany.  

[OLDYELLOW]

To find the best birds I think you have to look to the one loft races around the world. The birds in these lofts come from all over the world and are trained and race on a level playing field. The race becomes bird against bird and not fancier against fancier or system against system. They also take away one of the biggest advantages in pigeon racing loft location.  I often wonder why some of the top names in the sport with their supper fast birds never enter the one loft races?

No one strain or family of birds dominate these races but if it was country against country my money would be on Germany.  

 

i think one loft races are just a money making scheme and a couple of birds out of each loft is by no way a test of what bird is the best

[Guest slugmonkey]

EVERY country has good birds if you look at what happens to a barcelona winner or a national Ace bird of Holland or Belgium I garantee that 90% are sold within months of being named champion and where do these birds go U.K. the U.S. Tiawan ect

The Belg have been selling off their great champions for the last 50 years, have any of you looked into going to Belg to race - THEY WONT LET YOU - they have a closed market there its members only, as stated earlier the Belg system is designed to result in 1 champion in any category PREIOD they have a good thing going and don't want to rock the boat

  the up side to their system is there is NO question about what is the best bird that year and when you compete you are competing at the same level across the country so this takes a lot of the BS out of looking at results from guys claiming the bird they are selling won 48 races over his career when he may have only won 8 at 6 diffrent levels ( still a good result and meant for illustration purposes only )

The single greatest boon or detrement ( depending on your opinion ) to the sport has been the glossy breeding catalog you can take a cull bird, a good copy writer, and a teenager with photoshop and a decent computer, and get rich in the pigeon bussiness ( at least for a couple of years ) people take the easy way out , in stead of researching where a great flyer is getting birds and trying to reach these source lofts most will look at a pretty picture and say there is the solution to my problem I will spend 2000 dollars for a baby from this Ultra Elite Golden Ace Grand Poohbah bird "Schyster" from Laar'sendelmeyorhardearnedcashechlager, of course I am not going to train or feed right because I dont have the money because I bought birds that I dont fully know about but they must be good because the book says so. And of course these birds dont perform because they never had a chance the guy that bought them wasn't a good handler to start with and no matter what he buys it isnt going to work but that is the fault of the stud loft !! Most of the really good fliers were good BEFORE they started getting better birds and they go from winning 4 races to 6 races.

there are some exceptions and there are SOME birds out there that will put a guy on the map although these are few and far between and Just because the band has a big B on it and a seven digit number and the pedigree has a goverment stamp on it dosent garantee this

[Roland]

Don't believe that the one loft race has the best birds, certainly not as yet. Indeed often they are the 'Untried' birds. Agreed some do sent their best to what is in reality a 'Lottery'. hate to put a figure on it, but a very high % are not even bred by the Fancier / syndicate that enters them. Then a lot of reserves get put in.

Further one can buy a bird to be entered, and some have done well vis this method.

Likewise, just looking at the Belgium birds over the last - say 5 years in the Sun City races, and one see's that they are fair to middling at best.

[Roland]

Of course in my previous posts I meant Dax and not Pau.

[Ronnie]

The thing with one loft race's they are for young birds.If a one loft was geared to keeping birds 3 years then overall we may see the best pigeons from that flock of birds.

 

[Guest]

 

i think one loft races are just a money making scheme and a couple of birds out of each loft is by no way a test of what bird is the best

 

Mark, i agree up to a point. Money making schemes yes, but i think to go further down that debating road would be and is really another topic. As for the testing of the birds, well, you get the birds but you don't get the fancier. The youngsters entered don't take their owners management with them! The point Pigeonscout is making is that the actual breeders/entrants of the birds are sending their best, to try to win. These birds are threfore the cream of that particular lofts breeding. My personal opinion is that you have a really good chance of getting a good breeder from one of these sales. I've bought birds from one loft races and had some really good ones. In fact, i've only ever bought four, three of which have at least bred prizewinners. One i raced but it went! But, i suppose after reading Roland's post regarding the syndicates, there in that instance then I can see where it does become a lottery!

[pigeonscout]

If Mr No Name birds from the UK are beating Mr Big Names birds from the continent in the one loft races. I would be buying my birds from Mr No Name.

[Guest slugmonkey]

German birds at suncity are winning

[pigeonscout]

 

Mark, i agree up to a point. Money making schemes yes, but i think to go further down that debating road would be and is really another topic. As for the testing of the birds, well, you get the birds but you don't get the fancier. The youngsters entered don't take their owners management with them! The point Pigeonscout is making is that the actual breeders/entrants of the birds are sending their best, to try to win. These birds are threfore the cream of that particular lofts breeding. My personal opinion is that you have a really good chance of getting a good breeder from one of these sales. I've bought birds from one loft races and had some really good ones. In fact, i've only ever bought four, three of which have at least bred prizewinners. One i raced but it went! But, i suppose after reading Roland's post regarding the syndicates, there in that instance then I can see where it does become a lottery!

 

I know a man who bought a young hen from a one loft race and it went on to breed winners for him and his friends one of his friends was 1st and 2nd fed with two nest mates from this hen. He went to the next years sale to buy another hen bred by the same No Name fancier but he was to late and missed it. The hen he missed also bred winners for its new owner + the RPRA yearling one loft race winner.

 

[Guest slugmonkey]

Roland I disagree about the trying new birds in one lofters

Most guys are not going to spend 1200 bucks on untried stock at 1 loft races

[Chris Little]

 

The proof is in the pudding - Ask yourself this if you was offered a bird by say Geoff Kirlkand out of his best or example Michael Van Lint out of his best, which would you take ???? I suspect in 99% of cases it would be the Van Lint.

 

 

GWK for me anyday

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

i was the one percent also ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

i was the one percent also ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

well that makes three of us! lol!  ;D

[Roland]

Will be a day, as I've often said, sooner that later hopefully, when after the credit crunch is gone, that Corporatives will be a 'Mark' for the one loft races, and will indeed incorporate old birds too.

the beaty also will be that clubs / Feds etc. will be satalites for them. Corporates picking up the tabs, Grass rootes sorting and getting cheaper and better racing. Yes run in conjunction, but seperately and also within Feds Nationals whatever.

[gangster]

 

I know a man who bought a young hen from a one loft race and it went on to breed winners for him and his friends one of his friends was 1st and 2nd fed with two nest mates from this hen. He went to the next years sale to buy another hen bred by the same No Name fancier but he was to late and missed it. The hen he missed also bred winners for its new owner + the RPRA yearling one loft race winner.

 

i know were he lives.. :P :P

[Guest]

Will be a day, as I've often said, sooner that later hopefully, when after the credit crunch is gone, that Corporatives will be a 'Mark' for the one loft races, and will indeed incorporate old birds too.

the beaty also will be that clubs / Feds etc. will be satalites for them. Corporates picking up the tabs, Grass rootes sorting and getting cheaper and better racing. Yes run in conjunction, but seperately and also within Feds Nationals whatever.

 

I've never thought corporates would have been interested in the pigeon game, but i find what you are saying intrigiung Roland. What makes you think the game could pick up on corporate investment as such? Would hope it would and could happen, doubt it very much but never say never. Like i say, sincerelly intrigiung post Roland.

[ch pied]

yes the continental's have come a long way since 1945 , considering there was hardly a feather in  occupied europe , that haden't been , killed or consfiscated by the german wehrmacht pigeon service , not including what the fancier's of occupied europe were eating themselves , sure some were hidden & some were smuggled into un-occupied domains , after the hostilities the allies had droves of mobile lofts in europe , which they were only to glad to donate the inmate's to the local fancier's , when the the european orgs were re formed they made a plea for british fancier's to supply them with more pigeon's , which infact did happen , ? have we been buying desendants of our original stock back since the mid '50s ,

[Guest]

yes the continental's have come a long way since 1945 , considering there was hardly a feather in  occupied europe , that haden't been , killed or consfiscated by the german wehrmacht pigeon service , not including what the fancier's of occupied europe were eating themselves , sure some were hidden & some were smuggled into un-occupied domains , after the hostilities the allies had droves of mobile lofts in europe , which they were only to glad to donate the inmate's to the local fancier's , when the the european orgs were re formed they made a plea for british fancier's to supply them with more pigeon's , which infact did happen , ? have we been buying or original stock back since the mid '50s

;)yes i beleive many in UK have been buying their grandparents birds back .            andy.

 

 

[ch pied]

having re-read this thread again ,i must say  some smashing post's have been put up , i would just like to hi-lite a few of them being .

post by paulo no 29

post by swilcox no 32

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no39

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no42

slugmonkey,,,,,no57

not being flippent here , read the post's , dont look  , read

[Wiley]

 

GWK for me anyday

 

 

have to agree im in same boat, Kirkland all day