Why are the continentals way out in front of UK

[OLDYELLOW]

I.B. says and I quote '... So we don't have big UK names competing in 'big UK Nationals' with their own 'UK strain names'. In my opinion that's the field / shop window that's missing for UK pigeons. So you can't really advertise something you don't have ...

More to the point is that the 'Name / Strain' sell the product.

Now the mere fact that a British flyer has cultivated a great distance strain, and honed it to great precision, may well give the fancier a bit of merit... but he will sell more with a Belguim  / Holland / Netherlands whatever name. That is a sad reality.

One must understand too, that the climate, and roads etc. - especially ireland - are far more ardeous

than what most continent birds have to live with and attest to. So even if and when a 'Continental' strain is cultivated, it is and has been done by the Brit! No two ways about that.

Like the Brizilians / etc. in football, playing the same weather, hard pitches etc. in heat. they take time to acclimatise... possibly would never live in an old british devision. Yes we have acclimatise- the continentals to there 'Game' and not the other way around. May be fool hardy on an international stage not to.

I pigeons we have to adapted the birds to our climate, race program... and can't evaluate, or race the same as the continentals do. But bet your bottom dollar our birds have a hardier balance and temprement, and better on the Hard day and distance. They have had to mould to it!

 

like im saying we probably get one or two chances to test our birds they can continualy test there birds but yet we can hold our own in the International competisions so if we test less and still win think of how well we could be developing our strains  

 

[thunderboult]

I.B. says and I quote '... So we don't have big UK names competing in 'big UK Nationals' with their own 'UK strain names'. In my opinion that's the field / shop window that's missing for UK pigeons. So you can't really advertise something you don't have ...

More to the point is that the 'Name / Strain' sell the product.

Now the mere fact that a British flyer has cultivated a great distance strain, and honed it to great precision, may well give the fancier a bit of merit... but he will sell more with a Belguim  / Holland / Netherlands whatever name. That is a sad reality.

One must understand too, that the climate, and roads etc. - especially ireland - are far more ardeous

than what most continent birds have to live with and attest to. So even if and when a 'Continental' strain is cultivated, it is and has been done by the Brit! No two ways about that.

Like the Brizilians / etc. in football, playing the same weather, hard pitches etc. in heat. they take time to acclimatise... possibly would never live in an old british devision. Yes we have acclimatise- the continentals to there 'Game' and not the other way around. May be fool hardy on an international stage not to.

I pigeons we have to adapted the birds to our climate, race program... and can't evaluate, or race the same as the continentals do. But bet your bottom dollar our birds have a hardier balance and temprement, and better on the Hard day and distance. They have had to mould to it!

i think the first part about selling more birds would be diffrent if you scored in the big internationals, look at robert ben in france only living a few miles away from us and i bet his birds are in high demand. yet we hear of or know very little about french racing over here.

 

[Guest youngzimmy]

  THEY DONT ARGUE AND FIGHT OVER EVERYTHING NIT PICKING WHETHER YOU SHOULD BE ALOUD TO HAVE ELICTRONIC TIMING SYSTEMS SOP BICKERING AND GET ON WITH THE BLOODY RACING

[Guest Paulo]

This is a very interesting topic and people are really putting forward some good input and debate into it. Personally my take on it is our birds are as good as the continental birds but we aren't as good at the marketing side of things. Also they are competing in more 'internationals' and marketing the winners better. However in Belgium there are still a lot of working men flying birds who skin the pants off some of the big names but never get the publicy they should do.

 

The sport in this country for the average fancier like myself rotates more around the club, fed and amal situtation. Where you win ya club then try and become top man in your fed and then win amal races outright. A very small percentage of the UK fanciers will bother with the national flying club especially in places like the North East of England where we have strong organistions such as the Up North Combine to compete in.

 

I can't speak for the rest of the country but where we are located in Durham etc I think it would be very hard to win an internation race competing against everyone like Belgium etc. I know Chris Gordon and Brian Denney have had good performances but they are a lot further south than the Newcastle/Durham area.

 

So in our area we tend to focus on the fed wins and the amal wins and competion is hot very hot. I mean to win the UNC would be better than pulling all of girls aloud!

 

When I got the fastest vel in the WDA this year for a sprint race it was the best moment of my life. Better than sex better than everything I had tears in my eyes and thats just beating 5, 056 birds. That just give me a taste of what it must be like to win the actual WDA for a national race!!! Hopefully one day!!

 

Imagine smashing the UNC up pure class the beer would be flowing all night after that one and the lass would be in for a special treat lol.

 

Really something needs to be done in the Uk to try and encourage more people to compete in internationals especially us lot up here in the North. I wouldn't have a clue where to start could I even join the British Barcelona Club this far north? Then you have all the logistics propblem of marking stations etc!

 

I think one of the Belgiums key points of success is they are much better organised than we are and the sport is a lot less fragmented!

 

On a bird quality basis given the high imports of foreign birds over the year crossed into our own more tradtional strains I would say the quality of bird in this country is extremely high and I think we can hold our heads up here. There are fanciers all over England, Scotland, Wales and Highland that given a fairly level playing field could compete with Belgiums best in terms of results and achievements.

 

Ronnie Williamson in Ireland is one name that springs to mind, John Sonderland, Martin Ali, Ayton Marshall etc in the UNC.

 

Interesting topic look forward to seeing it develop very good input especially by Roland and Oldyellow

 

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

i think the first part about selling more birds would be diffrent if you scored in the big internationals, look at robert ben in france only living a few miles away from us and i bet his birds are in high demand. yet we hear of or know very little about french racing over here.

 

He sold Super Ben to Japan didn't he?

[OLDYELLOW]

well i believe the U.N.C has the cream of the best lofts and results where birdage is high , Bourge can vary up to near 600 miles so a couple more races added to the programme would give you 700 mile races or just over im sure others would join to fly your channel points thats why i feel the channel racing should be done together then the fancier has more choice   and thanks for your comments  

[swilcox]

There racing structure is so much simplier in Belguim and Holland if you are crowned the Ace Fancier then that is what you are, they all compete against each other and thats why there champions are so well promoted.

 

No matter what you say Brian Shepard cant win the MNFC because he isnt in the boundry, you cant tell me he couldnt? And for me that de-values the MNFC as an organisation that provides National Racing even though its so bloody tough to win it.

 

If you were looking over from China and you asked who was the best fancier in England in 2008 you would get 50 different names, In holland you would get 4 Sprint, middle, distance and young bird and there would be no arguement!!!!!!!!!

 

We have a bigger country yes but there are systems where we could incorperate results and fly for a National Championship and then we would have a smaller number of Champions that we could all reconise.

 

I go back to my Partner Raymond Moleveld, he won 1st Natioanl (All Holland) from 37,239 birds on a weekend when only one liberation was permitted by The NPO. If you wanted to fly send to that race and the winner will be a true champion, ie beaton by no one.

 

Lets Take Saintes, Tours of Bordeaux, we could very easily have a 35,000b liberation from there and we would not need any spin of that little feathered wonder.

 

Stuart

[Guest Paulo]

well i believe the U.N.C has the cream of the best lofts and results where birdage is high , Bourge can vary up to near 600 miles so a couple more races added to the programme would give you 700 mile races or just over im sure others would join to fly your channel points thats why i feel the channel racing should be done together then the fancier has more choice   and thanks for your comments  

 

I feel the same way as you that more organisations should unite to fly the channel as:-

 

1. It should bring the cost down. I say should as the WDA started to take the Durham Combine birds and we were getting charged £3.00 - £4.00 a bird depending on the race where the Durham Combine where getting it for cheaper! Not exactly fair!

 

2. If the WDA, Durham Combine and UNC had all the channel races so they were like the Queens Cup and nationals it woul dbring costs down and lead to better competion as loft location goes out the window on longer channel races. Also could have the organisations as sections as well.

 

Sadly due to politics it probably won't happen!

 

Where my loft is I could fly in the UNC but well away from the cost for the sprints so would need races like the channel ones to give me a chance!

[Guest Paulo]

There racing structure is so much simplier in Belguim and Holland if you are crowned the Ace Fancier then that is what you are, they all compete against each other and thats why there champions are so well promoted.

 

No matter what you say Brian Shepard cant win the MNFC because he isnt in the boundry, you cant tell me he couldnt? If you were looking over from China and you asked who was the best fancier in England in 2008 you would get 50 different names, In holland you would get 4 Sprint, middle, distance and young bird and there would be no arguement!!!!!!!!!

 

We have a bigger country yes but there are systems where we could incorperate results and fly for a National Championship and then we would have a smaller number of Champions that we could all reconise.

 

I go back to my Partner Raymond Moleveld, he won 1st Natioanl (All Holland) from 37,239 birds on a weekend when only one liberation was permitted by The NPO. If you wanted to fly send to that race and the winner will be a true champion, ie beaton by no one.

 

Lets Take Saintes, Tours of Bordeaux, we could very easily have a 35,000b liberation from there and we would not need any spin of that little feathered wonder.

 

Stuart

 

Whats your take on our bird quality over here then Stuart? Do you think we have birds to equal our european cousins now? You and Raymond probably have played a part in this by helping to import decent quality birds for people to buy.

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

yup true nationals arent a dream i think you have to start at club level and get as many clubs as possible to merge creating bigger clubs , then feds should be allowed to keep there place for club racing , then channel racing / nationals  should be for everyone but you could have club fed and nation results to keep geographicaly challenged flyers the same intrests  

[thunderboult]

 

He sold Super Ben to Japan didn't he?

 

he did sell it, but he was 3rd open barcelona international this year so he's got another.

[Guest Paulo]

 

he did sell it, but he was 3rd open barcelona international this year so he's got another.

 

Didn't mean it to imply he only had one pigeon just wondered if he had sold it or not.

[Guest Paulo]

Well we can all dream eh one day we will have the sport better organised and all be in the internationals and I'll show Jos Thone a thing or two lol

[swilcox]

There are good pigeons in every loft in every country, its quality of competition and fancier that brings the best to the top, the better the competition the higher quality the winner.

 

In Holland they have maybe 5000 fanciers that play purely on long distance and maybe 10-15 550 - 800 miles races a season with birdage at Bergerac in the high 40,000b, so the champions will have to work to earn that title.

 

Saying all that are they better no probaly not, on a par, yes i would say so.

 

Stuart

[OLDYELLOW]

There are good pigeons in every loft in every country, its quality of competition and fancier that brings the best to the top, the better the competition the higher quality the winner.

 

In Holland they have maybe 5000 fanciers that play purely on long distance and maybe 10-15 550 - 800 miles races a season with birdage at Bergerac in the high 40,000b, so the champions will have to work to earn that title.

 

Saying all that are they better no probaly not, on a par, yes i would say so.

 

Stuart

 

If we had the same racing as the continentals then who do you think would be the better fanciers ?

[swilcox]

Just to add if you asked Raymond which was are best racer at present from the Jan Aarden birds he will tell you its a Blue Hen that is in my loft, she has scored 2nd Combine lessay, 4th Combine Hastings, 4th Tours etc and she will be two year old this year, Raymond is thrilled that she can win over the channel (Ocean) as he calls it as he believes this is an excellent test and can only strenghten his colony of distance pigeons.

 

Stuart

[swilcox]

Our best would be the same as there best, Supreme Champions are exactly that!!!!

[Guest Paulo]

Just to add if you asked Raymond which was are best racer at present from the Jan Aarden birds he will tell you its a Blue Hen that is in my loft, she has scored 2nd Combine lessay, 4th Combine Hastings, 4th Tours etc and she will be two year old this year, Raymond is thrilled that she can win over the channel (Ocean) as he calls it as he believes this is an excellent test and can only strenghten his colony of distance pigeons.

 

Stuart

 

Bred us a young un lol I'm crap at the channel at the moment I'm a big disappointment to my dad who was a channel ace.

 

Seriously though thats a great hen with results like that

[Roland]

Have to agree so much with a few of the above posts, especially Pau.

the simple logic, akin to part of Swilcox says about the racing struture, is that we should be doing what I have advocated for years and still hap on.

'Little children help mummy'! All clubs part of Feds, good, then in turn part of Algam, then again part of Combines  / Sections and then every other week at least part of a NATIONAL concern.

The MNFC farce should be part of the NFC flying cly for instance.

North roader again ALL be part of the Great North Rd. Combine Scetions, and then the NRCC. Or visa versa in reality.

Cheaper racing, better transporters etc. etc. and ABOVE ALL deserved merit acheivable most weeks. Especially as the wind may well be right for many others, say an east in it. No more crap scenario that No Liberation' in adverse winds - to aplease the more fortunate. If weather fine, then up they go! Each season more deservedly fanciers would gain a little merit.

Soon flyers would be looking at the 'Bigger picture' and saying... 'Well I think I'll have a go... OK no chance of the International, even the National most probably... But I might...just maybe... and at least I gain the merit in a decent section result!

More fly for merit. Most fly know it is the 'lue moon' syndrone chance of winning a big one. But if each week, or most, and at no extra cost, indeed less costs, more will automatically be in with a shout!

[swilcox]

Paulo, remind me in March and i will see what i can do.

[thunderboult]

 

Didn't mean it to imply he only had one pigeon just wondered if he had sold it or not.

 

hi paulo, i did'nt think that. chap turned up on his door with a suitcase full is the story, he turned him away but his kids changed his mind.lol  

[Guest Paulo]

 

hi paulo, i did'nt think that. chap turned up on his door with a suitcase full is the story, he turned him away but his kids changed his mind.lol  

 

Lol you can imagine it don't be silly dad its only a bird I can get a new playstation or rennault ha ha

[thunderboult]

 

Lol you can imagine it don't be silly dad its only a bird I can get a new playstation or rennault ha ha

 

i think it was enough for a new house lol

[swilcox]

I know it was the most ever paid, to a Japanese Business man callled Yokahama i think.

[just ask me]

 

i've only had birds since 2004 so i don't know a lot but in recent years brian sheppard as been 1st+2nd dax international, mark gilbert as been 1st international dax and dave posey was 1st international hens dax . i think someone else had a good 1 from dax when brian won but not sure of name crowley+green or cooper's maybe both. the problem over here is we're not set up for international racing and not enough long distance fancier's over have a go, until that changes we'll always struggle.

 

yes but my question is what breed of pigeon are they i know brians was a thone crossed with his own familly what about the rest