studs abroad

[Roland]

Besides Louella there are a few I know of that sell abroad, including Belguim.

Indeed Louella are worldwide.

Remember the late great Frankie George was exporting and importing from China and Japan in the mid 50's. and you are talking crate loads at a time.

[Guest shadow]

horses for courses some that win on the continent wont win up here in scotland i think we dont give the british birds the respect they deserve and i too think they dump alot of there rubbish over here at this time of the year

 

agree totally

 

 

[gangster]

i think we are all chasing the dream of finding a new family of birds no need 2 be pure anything only winning out of turn...and maybe if you are real lucky you find a man and his birds doing the winning and sometimes you find him by chance and his birds do the same for you...BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE THERE WILL BE A LOT OF CASUALTIES ALONG THE WAY !!! AND REMEMBER NOT EVERYTHING THAT SHINES IS GOLD!!!!.... ;) ;)

[gangster]

i might just add when massarella bought birds from roland jansses the 1st time he had a sale  not a very good 1 and nothing of note done with anything from it...

[Guest slugmonkey]

EVERYBODY has imports now 10 - 15 years ago an imported pigeon was a rarity now they are knee deep on the internet some of the newest fliers in our club have them

I agree everything that shines isnt gold  

But I also say good birds don't make good handlers !!!

I will fly those Figo's out to 600

[Guest slugmonkey]

How much Belgium crap you own Asha ???

[Guest slugmonkey]

Belgium Chickens  ??

[kirky]

same thing sapper bloke called Patrick folet has Kirkpatrick in his birds in Paris  

 

one of mine in warsaw poland.

[Guest Paulo]

What are you talking about"best birds in england are from belgium" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

    you certainly been brainwashed with all the hype,blimey they been seding container fulls of rubbish over here forty years now,begining with the dordins, late 60s,and have nearly destroyed the good old british stuff,not much left now,but still does the buisness at the long end. :-/

 

So were the busschaerts all rubbish then? They destroyed the old english breeds up here in the north east noone could compete against them. Ever heard of the Newton pair? Dordins are french birds as well I'll think you find.

 

Then all the cranks started to say the busschaeerts couldn't do the channel and then they did and won well. Busschaeerts were just all the belgium breeds crossed together then old english breeds got crossed into the busschaerts or just got sacked off cause they weren't as good.

 

Theres no denying that a lot of crap has come from over from Belgium and france and holland but a lot of good birds have come over as well that have totally changed the racing pigeons we have here.

 

Once the busschaerts were tapped out people started crossing them in with the wildmersch and van loons etc and got even more winners. All this pure pigeons stuff is rubbish.

 

A man whom I'm lucky enough to have as my pigeon mentor told me:-

 

1. a strains a man's name

 

2. Theres two types of pigeons good ones and bad

 

Good british stuff as you call does not exist anymore most pigeons will have one belgium strain or another in it. I want pigeons that can score from 70 - 560 miles not some plodder that will win the odd hard day race or odd channel race. The old british strains got crossed into the belgium birds.

 

Busschaerts crossed with vandvelde won the CIU cup for my dad back in the day and thats a good channel race win when pigeon racing was racing. Wheres the british in than that two belgium strains crossed together.

 

Anyway now the pigeons are in britain they belong to us so they are british lol

[Guest]

 

So were the busschaerts all rubbish then? They destroyed the old english breeds up here in the north east noone could compete against them. Ever heard of the Newton pair? Dordins are french birds as well I'll think you find.

 

Then all the cranks started to say the busschaeerts couldn't do the channel and then they did and won well. Busschaeerts were just all the belgium breeds crossed together then old english breeds got crossed into the busschaerts or just got sacked off cause they weren't as good.

 

Theres no denying that a lot of crap has come from over from Belgium and france and holland but a lot of good birds have come over as well that have totally changed the racing pigeons we have here.

 

Once the busschaerts were tapped out people started crossing them in with the wildmersch and van loons etc and got even more winners. All this pure pigeons stuff is rubbish.

 

A man whom I'm lucky enough to have as my pigeon mentor told me:-

 

1. a strains a man's name

 

2. Theres two types of pigeons good ones and bad

 

Good british stuff as you call does not exist anymore most pigeons will have one belgium strain or another in it. I want pigeons that can score from 70 - 560 miles not some plodder that will win the odd hard day race or odd channel race. The old british strains got crossed into the belgium birds.

 

Busschaerts crossed with vandvelde won the CIU cup for my dad back in the day and thats a good channel race win when pigeon racing was racing. Wheres the british in than that two belgium strains crossed together.

 

Anyway now the pigeons are in britain they belong to us so they are british lol

 

Well said Paul, agree with what you say!

 

[Roland]

http://omega.twoday.net/stories/286416/

[bobtail]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;Da mate of mine sent some of his richie and whyte pigeons over to holland back in the eighties won straight from the off holland must be full of them by now

[jimmy white]

horses for courses some that win on the continent wont win up here in scotland i think we dont give the british birds the respect they deserve and i too think they dump alot of there rubbish over here at this time of the year

 

i also beleive this , i beleive there are pigeons that are better over a certain terrain  ,,,, i,e if i wanted to win in scotland  i would much rather buy a bird from a top scottish flyer ,,,,,,,or  if i wanted to win in belgium  , i would buy off a top belge flier ,,,,as the post says ,,,horses for courses    

[Guest Paulo]

Found this bit of arcticle written by Alan Wheldon that sums up the impact the busschaerts had on the racing scene and how they slaughtered the old english breeds best. Mind you a lot of the old british strains were good hard day birds as well and them being crossed into the busschaerts as well prob made the bussies even better at channel races. Methods have a big part to play as well widowhood slaughtered a lot of natural flyers when it was introduced. Think its unfair to say that the belgiums import nothing but crap over here their birds and methods have changed the scheme. I now think that our own birds that have been over here since the 1960's etc really should be classed as british but the british don't seem to put their own name to a strain. Its all busschaerts, wildeermersch, van loons etc.

 

"The questions that have to be answered when writing about George Busschaert, why did his pigeons make such an impact on the racing scene in Britain and why have they stood the test of time and seen many other strains come and go?

 

Well you have to go back in time to what the racing scene was like in Britain all those years ago. After the war and into the fifties there was not a lot of money about, especially for pigeons. In the sixties times changed, there was a boom and as Prime minister Macmillan said ‘You’ve never had it so good’.

 

However in spite of this newly found affluence most pigeon fanciers kept small teams of pigeons in back garden lofts. They nearly all raced natural and they raced predominantly traditional families of pigeons that were either handed down from their fathers or bought and swapped locally. Race programs were typically mixed, short races, building up in length throughout the race program to longer ones at the end of the season. Pigeons were thus bred and selected to be good ‘all rounders.’

 

In Belgium however, at the time things were very different. There were specialised race programs. Races were being separated into short, middle distance and long distance races. Specialised clubs were springing up. Fanciers were also concentrating their selection to pigeons to race predominantly short sprint races. There was a strong gambling culture and good prize money could be won. This drove a desire to obtain the best pigeons for the job, auctions sprang up to fuel this desire for more and faster pigeons. Champion pigeons were soon snapped up by the more wealthy to be put into their lofts.

 

This is where George Busschaert comes onto the scene. He was effectively a rich man, he had come to England and he had a passion for fast pigeons. On his visits to Belgium to obtain pigeons, he had a very big advantage. He knew the language, he knew the Belgium pigeon-racing scene, and he knew what pigeons were the best at the time, and he bought them. He also had contacts through his brother and brother-in-law. It is rumoured that he would travel to many successful lofts simply to buy their champion pigeon. He would then bring them to England and set them up in his loft. He soon made a big impact. He started to win everything. He had introduced fast sprint pigeons using widowhood methods on pigeons that had been selected from years and years of widowhood racing. At the time the English fancier was using predominantly what effectively were just homers on the natural system, which was simply no match. The old English strains were absolutely slaughtered in all types of races.

 

These out and out sprint pigeons were unbeatable. For example, Tom Larkins once described how he sent his team of 30 youngbirds to a race with over 2000 pigeons and 21 dropped in the loft all at once. John Palmer had 10 pigeons drop together to win the London and South coast combine 30 minutes ahead of the next bird in the federation.''

[Guest Paulo]

George Busschaert also had this talent of being able to pick pigeons that would breed together to produce outstanding pigeons. This was not just a case of being rich and simply buying top pigeons from winning lofts and putting them together, although this did help. What also helped was that Georges Busschaert had this great sense of stockmanship. He would chose pigeons of the same shape and form, and he could identify in pigeons, qualities that he knew would blend in, but also be passed down throughout the generations.

 

In addition to all this, his pigeons were breeding champions through what geneticists call heterosis. This is hybrid vigour.

 

This usually occurs when highly inbred strains are crossed, but the reason Georges Busschaert could produce it in his pigeons is that there was a massive pool of winning qualities that were all different, in all these interbreeding pigeons. It was these winning genes that would produce excellent racing characteristics that kept reappearing throughout the lines. So for example you would have pigeons that won because they had fantastic cardiovascular systems, some that had perfect wing formation, others with super efficient metabolisms, others with fantastically powerful musculature. It was these individual characteristics that kept emerging and reemerging sometimes one at a time, sometimes two or more qualities together, that kept making champions.

 

The whole family was not inbred at all it was a family of maximum outcrossing but what made it work was that there were no bad genes to get in the way of producing champions. The chromosomes were packed with genes that could only produce these winning characteristics, different winning characteristics in each subsequent generation. This is why fanciers with distance Busschaerts would suddenly start to throw pigeons that won short sprint races and sprinters that would suddenly breed distance pigeons.

 

Furthermore this was all fuelled even more when people started to cross them with their own strains, their own old winning lines. You now had these qualities that had been selected and honed by the British fancier being added to the continental Belgium winning characteristics.

 

That is why they turned out to be so versatile. They would win from 60 miles they would win from 500 miles. They would win in a strong headwind they would win in a blow home. You could race them widowhood you could race them natural. They won as youngbirds and straight away were winning as yearlings and old birds. So fliers even today are winning classic races with them when they are up to 7 years old.

 

The other element that made the Busschaerts so versatile at all distances was that George Busschaert did not solely select short distance sprint pigeons, his later acquisitions were equally capable of flying the distance. Fanciers were purchasing offspring from these distance lines and crossing them with the original sprint-middle distance Busschaerts.

 

[BLACK W F]

long before the bushys came into this country other belg birds where racing here  and winning out of turn  apart from the bushys the north of England was the hot bed for the vandys who won all before them  in fact  over 25 years ago i remember reading an interview

with one of the best fanciers in the NE he was asked if he had any regrets in pigeons his reply was yes  i got rid of the vandys i should have crossed them  with the bushys

i am not sure which brother it was but the partnership was ALI BROS

cheers Alan

[Guest Paulo]

long before the bushys came into this country other belg birds where racing here  and winning out of turn  apart from the bushys the north of England was the hot bed for the vandys who won all before them  in fact  over 25 years ago i remember reading an interview

with one of the best fanciers in the NE he was asked if he had any regrets in pigeons his reply was yes  i got rid of the vandys i should have crossed them  with the bushys

i am not sure which brother it was but the partnership was ALI BROS

cheers Alan

 

The vandveldes were class pigeons a lot of the Durham lads had them and crossed them in with the busschaerts. My dad got vandeveldes when he first started from a guy called Frankie Saddler who was a local good flyer. He crossed them in with his busschaerts and they were class channel birds. I think quite a few of the North East lads crossed them in.

 

 

 

[BLACK W F]

yes Paulo they where a class act there was a few who crossed but most got rid and lived to regret  

there was another very good sprint middle dist family brought in a wee bit earlier than the bushys  they where terific in the NE and yorkshire  the first guys who flew them told no one what they where  no wonder the damage they done  later on they where winning out of turn over the water MELUN ect these where the KAREL HERMANS

Cheers Alan

[Guest asha]

Hey Just ask me,your 2 questions,

about best 5 sprint lofts,you just answered it yourself,inferior  racing,with inferior birds, but probably real good racing men if only they had  to test out to 600miles year after year.

  Best 2 Distance lofts,nothing comes close to racing in the Internationals,and JandS Nicolsons,Flying Eddie Newcomes good old jock family,with a splash of class added .

    And  JandR Wills more good old british stuff

[Guest Paulo]

Hey Just ask me,your 2 questions,

about best 5 sprint lofts,you just answered it yourself,inferior  racing,with inferior birds, but probably real good racing men if only they had the balls to test out to 600miles year after year.

  Best 2 Distance lofts,nothing comes close to racing in the Internationals,and JandS Nicolsons,Flying Eddie Newcomes good old jock family,with a splash of class added .

    And  JandR Wills more good old british stuff

 

Sprint racing is just as much an art as distance racing and the real top men and pigeons are the ones who can excel at all levels busschaerts and other belgian strains have raced to 560 miles to bourges and prob further into scottish borders

[BLACK W F]

asha how far do you think melun or borgues is in to Newcastle   who would need distance birds in the up north combine when sprinters as you call them  win from these distances

melun 500mls borgues   560 mls what about the distances further up from these points  you surly have very little knowledge of what these famillys are made up from  the bushys and hermans   you ever heard of catryse  desmit   van der espt    i could go on  but will leave it there

cheers Alan   p s  THE UNC  was won out BORGUES witha JANSSEN

LAUGH THAT ONE OFF

[Roland]

Busseart also had the uncanny knack of contacting Fanciers... two different fanciers and sell their birds off having not even seen the birds. This too had great sucess.

Must, argueably be regarded as the greatest stock... alongsides of Masserella, and the Jansennes brother, or more importantlt the father.

[just ask me]

Hey Just ask me,your 2 questions,

about best 5 sprint lofts,you just answered it yourself,inferior  racing,with inferior birds, but probably real good racing men if only they had  to test out to 600miles year after year.

  Best 2 Distance lofts,nothing comes close to racing in the Internationals,and JandS Nicolsons,Flying Eddie Newcomes good old jock family,with a splash of class added .

    And  JandR Wills more good old british stuff

 

asha u surely have a lot to learn  when u post like this sprint racing is an art to its self and no one can top the belgium for what they done with sprint racing over years look at the brillant strains that have come in to country janssens must be covering every distance now and winning and as other pll have pointed out the busseart which changed pigeon racing in England staff va reets well they were bought to this country as out and out sprint pigeons and they ripped the competition apart and now ive read pll are flying all distances now with these pigeons yes uve named some top pll with great results but all in all even at the distance they bred top class birds o yeah there's always a few exceptions to the rule but what i would say is name the top class results and what they are flying i bet there is foreign birds in there what was Brian shepherds bird a cross with a jos thone im not up on distance winners into England but id bet if the top 20 results could be named here and there bred it would be interesting reading and remember just cause u say so doesn't make it  so  

[bobtail]

i bet that a lot of the scottish strays played a big part in the winning i combine,s as well.

[pigeonscout]

If a UK fancier goes to the Belgium loft of van den, and buys a full round from his stock birds. In 5 to 10 years time when van den originals stock birds are no longer breeding the birds van den will have left are the same way bred as the ones the UK fancier has. So in my view they have no better birds they are just better at making people believe they have.