INFERIOR HOMING ABILITY

[walterbmasson]

 

 

merlin yes i agree entirely what your saying but the weather has to be favourable if your in a race  when there coming dribs and drabs in the fed its mostly the sprint that meets there waterloo this has been very noticeable in our fed by the drop in birdage and the bigest losses what i have seen is the sprint always has the poorest returns and again the distance birds shows there true colours if one or two goes astray you can bank on them finding there way back most of the time on the day and most of the distance fanciers will agree there all the better for there mistake and i believe in putting them every week in all weathers as any of my club members will confirm theres no holding a bird back because of bad forcasts infact i like them to get a few dodgy days to sort them out as most of you also myself'? o this is a good one then a couple of races wheres it at away gone NOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MUSCLE THE LATE GEORGE RITCHIE OF INVERALLOCHY HE WAS THE STOCK MAN OF THE RITCHIE @ WHYTE PARTNERSHIP WORTH HIS WEIGHT IN GOLD WHEN IT CAME TO THE BREEDING AND PAIRING OF BIRDS HE WAS THE MASTER ALSO OF RACING HE STOOD OUT HANDS OVER HEELS ABOVE ALL FANCIERS AMOUNT OF BIRDS HE KEPT AND RACED  HE HAS HELPED ME ALL MY TIME IN RACING I NEVER ASKED A BIRD FROM HIM BUT EVERY YEAR GEORGE GIFTED ME WITH BIRDS AND WE EXCHANGED BIRDS HIS WORDS TO ME WAS IF THEY SURVIVE WITH YOU THEY SHOULD BE OK HE HAD THIS BLUE COCK RACING MACHINE IN THE CLUB AND FED UP TO 500MILES IWAS WITH HIM IN HIS LOFT HE MENTIONED HE WAS SENDING HIM TO AVRANCHES 622MILES HE SAID I HAVE TO HES LIKE A TANK I HELD HIM BUT WHAT I NOTICED WAS HE HAD A HARDER MUSCLE THAN THE STORM QUEEN WHICH IS THAT SPONGY MUSCLE YOU COULD NOT MISTAKE FOR INSTANCE MYSELF AND WILSON NOBLE WAS IN ANDREW LOCHARTS LOFT WE HANDLED MOST OF HIS PIGEONS HE HANDED ME THIS HEN I TOLD HIM OUT OF ALL YOUR BIRDS THIS IS THE ONE I WOULD TAKE HOME HE SAID THIS IS OF STORM QUEEN NOT BAD I PICKED THIS B IRD OUT OF 100 BIRDS ANY WAY THE BLUE COCK IT DID GET HOME FROM 600MILES BUT WAS SKIN AND BONE AND I BELIEVE THE MUSCLE BURNED UP TO QUICK THE BIRD WAS SENT AGAIN BUT WAS FINISHED PUTTING IN THE SUPREME EFFORT

[Roland]

 

this to me is the best post,,, and in my opinion, very true

 

Ofcourse Jimmy ... and the reason it wants to endure ofcourse.

I have stated, and believe, and still do, that most lost pigeon just don't want to home for any reason... the love of home hasn't been instilled in them.

Like I believe, EVERY part comes together to make a 100% conditioned and motivated pigeon.... not least the Body wieght and the mental attitude. one can't co - exist 100% without the other for instance.

A pigeon won't want to endure, unless it wants too. etc. etc.

But yes that was a good, simple basic reply from Swilcox.

 

[Guest spin cycle]

great thread for those of us looking to take the next 'step'. up until now i thought sprinters had to orientate/home quicker as the race could be decided almost at the racepoint ( under 100 miles)...and the big 'muscley' sprinters then could go flat out...but not for to long . in the distance the birds need to be 10-14 hours typically on the wing.....so on sprints they would be 20-30 mins behind sometimes.

[Roland]

Owen, may it be that the price paid dictates the regime they are put to?

So- as Gary says' a bird wins two feds races within 3 weeks, and the week after next is the second leg of the Gold Cup, bird is on song still, 'Do you Send it'? Answer of course. If it is in condition and rested up why not?

Who wants to win with paper bags? Answer most will gladly take them!

But who wouldn't swap those two paper wins of 175 miles and 200 miler for a hard 600 day bird? especialy a winner... Answer Most, but fortune favours the brave I believe.

One mustn't place all eggs in one basket, nor keep fit birds home to decorate the loft either.

System counts a lot regardless what a bird costs. Further, if it hasn't 1. A love of home, 2. contented. 3 feels safe and comfortable in the loft you will never motivate that bird. Further,

if a bird hasn't this, then it will never be 100% fit, indeed a long way from it.

And, a sentence I was repeatedly told by my father regards fitness.... 'Fit men train to get fitter'! let me add a little toi that 'You can't train to get fit'. the last part should in reality be the first sentence, but never said. Took me many months of pondering to get the gist, and it is so simple.

 

Well know umpteen that never dreamed off, let alone sent / send a Busseart over 450, and that at a push.

Hurst, Kev Shipley got them in great time from Bilco's 1000 miler from Rome!

Mr Andrews Bussearts won the Club at the distance most races, most years  'Bussearts. 2 years past he won Lerwicke on consecretive years , one a hen, the other a Cock bird to win Club, Fed and Algamations... indeed was timed in an hour before birds flyer a lot less... and in hard races they excell.

Like I say, I used to - untill recently - only ever had others castoffs and freebies.

Flew the distance both North and South no problem.... mostly, last years Thurso was a disaster and a bad smash (C**p happens)

 

Cast off have flown A Frazerburgh, and Lerwick (or Thurso)  and two bergeracs inside 6 weeks for me. No didn't win, but all were there abouts.  With a few problems etc. I'd got their constitution back to GOOD, but they just weren't good enough.

[blaz]

one is bred to sprint and one is bred for distance races big difference in size in these two redfox jancen and jan aarden cocks . neither one has inferior homing ability. one is meant for one job and one for another .

[Guest spin cycle]

one is bred to sprint and one is bred for distance races big difference in size in these two redfox jancen and jan aarden cocks . neither one has inferior homing ability. one is meant for one job and one for another .

 

the blue looks bigger than the red

[blaz]

not good photo but you can see size difference sprint to distance

[Guest spin cycle]

not good photo but you can see size difference sprint to distance

 

yes can see it now...thanks....the red is nice but that blue is the best looking pigeon i've seen on here not that i know much  (dizzy)

[blaz]

 

yes can see it now...thanks....the red is nice but that blue is the best looking pigeon i've seen on here not that i know much  (dizzy)

 

thanks for the complement

[Roland]

You know, in 2005 a book came out in Belguim of National and Ace pigeons. Greatr research and detail of course over a pains taking amount of time. This took into account, size, wieght shape, stance etc. etc. etc

THE only certain thing to transpire was that all classes, distance / sprint etc. come in all size wieghts and shapes.

System does of course play a great part, no two ways about that.

Pierre Dordin spent a fortune following and expiermenting pigeon, how they fly and what not.

Some findings I have posted on one or two occassions.

Pigeons DON'T race, to think that would be ludicrous. they set of at a speed that they are comfortable with, a speed well within themselves. They have an 'Reserve' that means they can  - regardless of what you may think when the whizz overhead - another gear that they can change up to. This is thought to be in case of any hazards, or hawks etc.

Now as time goes on, some fall away. As time goes on, some behind for keeping the same speed, wingbeat, may well at a later stage overtake.... but NEVER do they see ahead and spurt to over take as some give the impression.

They fly in an Arc from A to B - like a Bow. And do actually zig - zag, though often over the short spnse that we often see them in full flight it may well like straight. Tis another reason that they don't, can't have recognised Breaking Points, and are purely for the fanciers own whims, believes.... that doesn't matter actually because it is getting the mileage under the wing that counts.

So one tosses ate at night, just allowing time before dusk to home.... As a matter of interest, to some anyway lol in WW11 Canadian was the foremost in Night Training pigeons... In a darkness release they homed 200 - 300 miles at night.

So we now get back to feeding, and the fuel that is taken aboard regards sprinting / Distance. This is of course first most 'Race Wise'.

Ricky Mardis used to just race the birds.... never trained or allowed out except to race.... did very well, very well indeed acyually, and it was / is all done with 'Feeding'.

I did the same in 2006... they only had one race. Thurso was a stinker! Was only two day birds in one club, and 234 out of only 4 day birds in another club. This was via feeding mainly, and loft exercise. These birds constitution was back to good.... but have since parted with them as they simply were 'Past Sale by Date'. But that's another story lol

[blaz]

You know, in 2005 a book came out in Belguim of National and Ace pigeons. Greatr research and detail of course over a pains taking amount of time. This took into account, size, wieght shape, stance etc. etc. etc

THE only certain thing to transpire was that all classes, distance / sprint etc. come in all size wieghts and shapes.

System does of course play a great part, no two ways about that.

Pierre Dordin spent a fortune following and expiermenting pigeon, how they fly and what not.

Some findings I have posted on one or two occassions.

Pigeons DON'T race, to think that would be ludicrous. they set of at a speed that they are comfortable with, a speed well within themselves. They have an 'Reserve' that means they can  - regardless of what you may think when the whizz overhead - another gear that they can change up to. This is thought to be in case of any hazards, or hawks etc.

Now as time goes on, some fall away. As time goes on, some behind for keeping the same speed, wingbeat, may well at a later stage overtake.... but NEVER do they see ahead and spurt to over take as some give the impression.

They fly in an Arc from A to B - like a Bow. And do actually zig - zag, though often over the short spnse that we often see them in full flight it may well like straight. Tis another reason that they don't, can't have recognised Breaking Points, and are purely for the fanciers own whims, believes.... that doesn't matter actually because it is getting the mileage under the wing that counts.

So one tosses ate at night, just allowing time before dusk to home.... As a matter of interest, to some anyway lol in WW11 Canadian was the foremost in Night Training pigeons... In a darkness release they homed 200 - 300 miles at night.

So we now get back to feeding, and the fuel that is taken aboard regards sprinting / Distance. This is of course first most 'Race Wise'.

Ricky Mardis used to just race the birds.... never trained or allowed out except to race.... did very well, very well indeed acyually, and it was / is all done with 'Feeding'.

I did the same in 2006... they only had one race. Thurso was a stinker! Was only two day birds in one club, and 234 out of only 4 day birds in another club. This was via feeding mainly, and loft exercise. These birds constitution was back to good.... but have since parted with them as they simply were 'Past Sale by Date'. But that's another story lol

 

good post

[jimmy white]

i have stated this,,, good pigeons can come in all shapes ,sizes and looks,,

off course the same can be said about bad pigeons,,

 

so, really, looks, size shape,  in my opinion is  not important,, whats more important,,,,  is whats inside the bird ,,,,,,in its head!!!

 

what the management consists of ,,knowing your individual pigeon,,etc,,, all play a part    its certainly good to handle a lovely looking winning pigeon,, but not all winners are good handlers and good lookers ,,, they,, and their  owner.. just seem to have that certain,,,it   its the "it" bit that counts ;D

[Roland]

Agree Jimmy, but for me the first is their 'Constitution'. Both needed each other of course to be up there on the day.

I feel though that - like I often say - pigeons don't often get lost, they just bugger off, or don't care... Want home enough. JMO

[Merlin]

Lots of birds irrespective of "names" are capable of flying for a 12/14 hr race and also sprinting 3/5 hrs,its about preparation,birds in any of these races must have their homing ability honed by their preparation,which is obviously quite different for both participants re,breeding dates,exercise,feed,motivation,training,previous racing,would reckon there are more birds go missing,never to be seen again,in sprint to middle distance,than any long distance event,the distance bird is prepared for hours on wing,and the many other eventualities it may encounter on its journey,while the sprint/middle distance,are prepared for mainly speed only,and when they encounter any delays for whatever reasons,they are gone down,almost like a horse prepared for The Champion Hurdle,asked to race round Aintree in The Grand National,it may be capable of doing it,but it has got to be prepared properly,but there is no doubt all race birds possess homing ability,but when pressure comes on,lots just simply quit,or get lost,by not being prepared for the unexpected in a sport that's so full of so much b/s the input and knowledge of a fancier is often more important than line/or breed of bird he is flying,look  around he /she is out there,the one who would get one from a Church,and do well with it,often against all the odds

[Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS]

In truth a sprinter has an hieghtened ability of homing as it has to be in the loft quicker and has less margin for error.

 

A pigeons ability to home can only be judged in the basket, so many modern pigeons have so little ability as there are bred from generations of non racers, bred by non fanciers.

 

 

 

 

toatally agree.  

 

[Roland]

Quoted from swilcox

In truth a sprinter has an hieghtened ability of homing as it has to be in the loft quicker and has less margin for error.

Well of course, but that doesn't in the least mean that it has an heighten homing ability.

A heighten incentive, motivation etc. maybe.

Like when you has say a hen sitting tight and you wish to hieghten her desire to home via keeping putting her ouside the loft, because she returns instantly, or you close the traps and she'll bob and climb over all the wires trying to get in. That is motivation / incentive and not homng ability surely.

[Wiley]

In reality you need to think of what homing is, is homing racing, no. The old english type pigeon no matter where you sent it you would always get them home, people would reed youngsters of 20 and end the season of 20, the english type pigeon was typical homers and had strong homing aility. However the foreign strains, would often lose themselves and were never to seen again however there speed was more heightened, ut reeding 20 youngsters from the foriegn strain and keeping 20 was very few and far etween, as the skill of finding there way home in my view has decreased. Consequently look at the velocitites over the years, as well as the losses  

[walterbmasson]

 

 

wiley about 4years ago i only bred 12youngbirds i only took off my stock birds i sent to every race in fed and finished up putting 4 to the young bird national 356mls  and still finished up with 5young birds I TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU REGARDING THE MASS BIRDS LOST TO DAY IS BY THE INTRODUCTION OF THE FOREIGN STRAINS THE AMOUNT FANCIERS ARE BREEDING IS OUTRAGES THE FEED BILL ENORMOUS THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT OF 50 RINGS PER MEMBER FEDS GETTING TOGETHER TO SAVE COSTS ALSO THE RIGHT BIRDS WILL BE BRED  FROM THE REASON I MENTION THIS ENTER ANY LOFT WHAT DO YOU SEE EVERY NEST BOX BEING USED AND AS YOU  KNOW DONT GO BY YOUNG BIRD RACING BREEDING OFF ALL YOUR YEARLINGS IS ONLY GRUB FOR HAWKS EVEN SOME WILL BE LOST COME BACK A FEW WEEKS THEY WILL ALSO BE BRED FROM THE FOLLOWING YEAR AND IF FANCIERS IS HONEST WILL AGREE THEY ARE BREEDING TO MUCH S... BUT SOME IDIOTS WILL BUY THEM ITS A VICIOUS CIRCLE AND ITS ABOUT TIME THEY STOPPED TO THINK IAM GOING TO SEE WHAT I AM GETTING FOR MY MONEY AS YOU WILL GET PLENTY RUBBISH IF YOU DONT IF YOU WANT 6YOUNG BIRDS TAKE 4 GO AND SEE WHAT YOUR GETTING THEM OFF WITH THE COST OF OTHER [ 2 ] GET THEM BLIND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT I ONCE BOUGHT 14BIRDS AT A CLEARANCE SALE LONG DISTANCE BIRDS SUPPOSED TO BE DIRECT OFF STOCK THEY COULD NOT FLY 70MLS THIS MAN IS STILL AVERTISING IN THE HOMING WORLD YET AND DOES NOT RACE ANY BIRDS SO BE WARNED IT  WILL HELP IN THE LONG RUN MYSELF IF I THOUGH I WANTED A CROSS I WOULD TAKE TIME AND VISIT THE FANCIER AND SEE THE TYPE OF BIRDS HE HAS  8) 8) 8)

[NW USA]

 

I was reading a similar thing on Schaerlaeckens site, he said Vandebeele only likes head wind birds were as Schaerlaeckens likes a tail wind bird.

 

Schaerleackens say he likes birds that perform well with a headwind and a tail wind. Not one or the other.

[Roland]

 

wiley about 4years ago i only bred 12youngbirds i only took off my stock birds i sent to every race in fed and finished up putting 4 to the young bird national 356mls  and still finished up with 5young birds I TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU REGARDING THE MASS BIRDS LOST TO DAY IS BY THE INTRODUCTION OF THE FOREIGN STRAINS THE AMOUNT FANCIERS ARE BREEDING IS OUTRAGES THE FEED BILL ENORMOUS THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT OF 50 RINGS PER MEMBER FEDS GETTING TOGETHER TO SAVE COSTS ALSO THE RIGHT BIRDS WILL BE BRED  FROM THE REASON I MENTION THIS ENTER ANY LOFT WHAT DO YOU SEE EVERY NEST BOX BEING USED AND AS YOU  KNOW DONT GO BY YOUNG BIRD RACING BREEDING OFF ALL YOUR YEARLINGS IS ONLY GRUB FOR HAWKS EVEN SOME WILL BE LOST COME BACK A FEW WEEKS THEY WILL ALSO BE BRED FROM THE FOLLOWING YEAR AND IF FANCIERS IS HONEST WILL AGREE THEY ARE BREEDING TO MUCH S... BUT SOME IDIOTS WILL BUY THEM ITS A VICIOUS CIRCLE AND ITS ABOUT TIME THEY STOPPED TO THINK IAM GOING TO SEE WHAT I AM GETTING FOR MY MONEY AS YOU WILL GET PLENTY RUBBISH IF YOU DONT IF YOU WANT 6YOUNG BIRDS TAKE 4 GO AND SEE WHAT YOUR GETTING THEM OFF WITH THE COST OF OTHER [ 2 ] GET THEM BLIND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT I ONCE BOUGHT 14BIRDS AT A CLEARANCE SALE LONG DISTANCE BIRDS SUPPOSED TO BE DIRECT OFF STOCK THEY COULD NOT FLY 70MLS THIS MAN IS STILL AVERTISING IN THE HOMING WORLD YET AND DOES NOT RACE ANY BIRDS SO BE WARNED IT  WILL HELP IN THE LONG RUN MYSELF IF I THOUGH I WANTED A CROSS I WOULD TAKE TIME AND VISIT THE FANCIER AND SEE THE TYPE OF BIRDS HE HAS  8) 8) 8)

 

Asking a bit much there mucker aint you.... golly you'll be suprised next that commonsense like the post above is ignored each week, each year. Too many thing that by breeding vast numbers the law of averages says some will be 'Good Un's' and if they send 60, to 200 like some ;Names' do that one will be on song and a high % of wins will follow. Never crosses their mind that it is tosh, crap and just feeling up the towns more and annoying some!

one you missed though... Inbreeding  and most only do it because they hear 'Top Fanciers' do it, full stop, and 80%+ don't even know how to do it, or how it works.

A good stockman will of course get better results  by having 2-3-4 different strains and all out crossed.

[walterbmasson]

YES ROLAND YOU SEE THE BIG TEEMS THE FIRST FEW RACES EASY DAYS GOOD RETURNS DODGY DAYS DISAMATED WHATS HAPPENED SEE HOW THE REST OF THE MEMBERS GOT ON IF SOME HAS GOOD RETURNS THINK WHY YOURS ARENT HOME TAKE A LOOK WHAT THERE BREEDING OFF YET SOME FANCIERS WILL STILL BREED FROM THEM BLAMING RACE CONTROLLEROR CLASHING WITH NO OTHER BIRDS IN ROUTE YES ROLAND KOWING YOU THE STOCK IS THE ANSWER LESS BIRDS MORE ROOM LESS WORK MORE ENJOYMENT 8) 8) 8)

[Roland]

And Walter less birds better managerment.

I had 5 brothers and three sisters. Ok families were larger a piece back. We got through, had a great tight nit and happy family as such. My Parents, Happy Violet and Smiling sam did the best - and did as others and what they thought best for the time... So yes we did well IN SORTS AND Parts!!! But you know, how much better would they / we have done with just 4 kids, or better still even 2. For example, ok so you passed your 11+ to go grammer, but you cant, we can't afford it, and so on down the line nigh every days... Indeed couldn't wait till the older brothers out grew their clothes so I could have something new lol.

Likewise keeping pigeons I fear.

[walterbmasson]

 

 

 

YES ROLAND NO VERSA LAGA IN THOSE DAYS WE STILL GOT BY ON BREAD AND BUTTER PUDDING EATING PLENTY FISH BUT STILL LEFT ME WITH NO BRAINS  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Dave barrie]

brilliant post walter and roland, i agree with it all, its the most sense ive heard spoke on this forum for a while, its a pity everyone wasnt so honest ;D ;D ;D ;), especially aboot the fish eh walter ha ha

[walterbmasson]

 

 

 

YES DAVIE INFERIOR YOU KNOW HOW FAST IT CHANGES FROM A FEW GOOD RACES YOUR LORRY OVERFLOWING ONE DODGY RACE SOMETHING HAPPENED IT WA\S NEVER ABOUT LEAR MARKET RUBBISH , DAVIE DID GRAHAM RITCHIE SEE YOU ABOUT THE TIME SHEET FOR THE PICK UPS  8) 8) 8)