electrolytes

[greenlands]

i wouldnt be without them,its about time transporters were made to put them in the water systems,could only benefit the birds especialy on hot days,ie young bird races

 

Totally agree with this statement,young birds need all the help they can get.

 

[Roland]

 

If I read your question / statement correctly, then you have not understood the point I was making. I wasn't talking about what's in electrolytes.

 

I was talking about whether the pigeon needs them. My opinion is that it doesn't, because the pigeon's system is totally different from humans and is designed to stop it losing 'salts' during heavy exercise - flight. During flight these 'salts' are needed to keep the body temperature from rising too high.

 

Yes did get the main gist wrong.... I like you are a none believer. Pigeons - like must creatures are very resiliant. And do recover naturally very quickly. Indeed am suprised even more that some feel the need to applied before a race - tosses next I presume :-/ -

However what part of the makeup - if any - is needed to be replaced would I feel take a very lot of scientific resauces to find out - way above what  the norm Vet even has at hand .... yet some just apply willy nily regardless  :-/ :-/

Rest and fresh air fresh feed and water is by far a better, and more sensible way to go surely. Certainly would do any harm....

Further let me say, that I believe greatly that when the cup is brimful.... then no more can be added to it regardless. Extra just passes through .... and then for instance we have the question popping up constantly 'Birds Droppings are .................' streauth :-/.

 

[jimmy white]

 

What about their throat, mouth etc, they are obviosly moist and the air passing through would cause evaporation, could salts be lost there?

 

i would say yes ,, as i said b4 they also breath to a certain extent through their bones [pigeons have hollow bones , compared to us] i think, in my opinion, there are various ways they can loose salts and minerals , therefore, i would be a beleiver ;D ;D ;D

as far as i see in albears post, he is a beleiver too, but just hope he doesnt give the same amount to the pigeons , than he gives the horses ;D ;D ;D

[jimmy white]

Migratory birds, do they lose salts?

Swifts spend most of their lives on the wing, do they lose salts?

Humming birds use so much energy in flight they have to feed constantly, do they lose salts?

 

why do pigeons crave salt when feeding youngsters

 

my thoughts on these migratory birds, they have a natural build up of reserves for their totally natural journey, i would think nature would take care of that,,, but the difference  with pigeons, they dont know their being sent to fly many miles, so are naturally not prepared for this,  :-/ :-/

 

i dont know about the humming birds, but just know they hum ;D ;D ;D,,,,,,,,,but all very interesting stuff

[Tony C]

 

why do pigeons crave salt when feeding youngsters

 

my thoughts on these migratory birds, they have a natural build up of reserves for their totally natural journey, i would think nature would take care of that,,, but the difference  with pigeons, they dont know their being sent to fly many miles, so are naturally not prepared for this,  :-/ :-/

 

i dont know about the humming birds, but just know they hum ;D ;D ;D,,,,,,,,,but all very interesting stuff

 

Everything I crave for my Doctor tells me is no good for me

 

[jimmy white]

 

Everything I crave for my Doctor tells me is no good for me

 

well certainly cant argue with that ;D ;D i would agree,  ;D ;D

 

but with any craving, theres usually a cause, im wondering what the cause is  for pigeons wanting salt when feeding youngsters  :-/ :-/ :-/ ;D nature must be causing this craving for some reason :-/ :-/

[cheeseman]

dont know if pigeons sweat, but ive often observed them piping , sort of gasping for air on warm days,or lying spread eagled to let cooler air through the feathers;do,s this combat sweating, veiws please

[cheeseman]

sorry i deviated from the thread.

[Skull Lofts]

 

, theres usually a cause, im wondering what the cause is  for pigeons wanting salt when feeding youngsters  :-/ :-/ :-/ ;D nature must be causing this craving for some reason :-/ :-/

 

I think that they loose a fair amount of salts when they are VOMITING,FEEDING the babys!

 

Skull

[Skull Lofts]

If I read your question / statement correctly, then you have not understood the point I was making. I wasn't talking about what's in electrolytes.

 

I was talking about whether the pigeon needs them. My opinion is that it doesn't, because the pigeon's system is totally different from humans and is designed to stop it losing 'salts' during heavy exercise - flight. During flight these 'salts' are needed to keep the body temperature from rising too high.

 

Yes did get the main gist wrong.... I like you are a none believer. Pigeons - like must creatures are very resiliant. And do recover naturally very quickly. Indeed am suprised even more that some feel the need to applied before a race - tosses next I presume :-/ -

However what part of the makeup - if any - is needed to be replaced would I feel take a very lot of scientific resauces to find out - way above what  the norm Vet even has at hand .... yet some just apply willy nily regardless  :-/ :-/

Rest and fresh air fresh feed and water is by far a better, and more sensible way to go surely. Certainly would do any harm....

Further let me say, that I believe greatly that when the cup is brimful.... then no more can be added to it regardless. Extra just passes through .... and then for instance we have the question popping up constantly 'Birds Droppings are .................' streauth :-/.

 

I give electrolytes only on the day after they returned from a race BECAUSE,

1. Some say its good for them?

2. Some say its bad for them?

 

So a Sunday was the only day that i could figure out wont harm them in any way when i give it to them. LOL

 

 

Skull

[The Navigator]

i give my birds electrolytes to replace depleated sugars and salt in the birds tissues in order to prevent them flooding themselves by drinking too much water , by stabalising these salt / sugars , the birds bodys return to normal quicker IMO

 

Agree, always have and always will.

[Guest IB]

dont know if pigeons sweat, but ive often observed them piping , sort of gasping for air on warm days,or lying spread eagled to let cooler air through the feathers;do,s this combat sweating, veiws please

 

The first part of your post we term 'panting'. Very rapid breathing. Rapid air flow and water loss from the lungs, again to cool the body.

 

The second part, sunning themselves.   Was going to say 'just sunning' but there is much more to it, they're making Vitamin D which they'll eat while preening.  Another topic.

[Skull Lofts]

 

they're making Vitamin D which they'll eat while preening.  .

 

could you please elaborate on this.

I have heard about the Vit D and Sun story, but never realy understood it?

 

Skull

 

 

[Roland]

This also make interesting reading I believe. Again it is Human - which I feel are far beneath the wild life in regards health  / fitness and conditioning themselves.

 

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Noakes.htm

[Guest IB]

could you please elaborate on this.

I have heard about the Vit D and Sun story, but never realy understood it?

 

Skull

 

I'm sorry I missed your question when first posted.

 

I had always understood the 'preen gland' secreted oil for waterproofing the birds feathers. You see the birds take oil from the gland and spread it over the feathers. Well, I got that one wrong, because the waterproofing is done by powder down, from the bird's powder down feathers.

 

Preen gland 'oil' is actually fatty acid, and it contains antimicrobial agents. I've not been able to find out what these are, other than the ones that prevent the feathers being attacked by fungus. They also cntains something called 'a Vitamin D3 precursor' which is like 'part-baked' Vitamin D. The bird spreads this over its feathers, and the sun's UV light converts it to Vitamin D. The bird then eats this Vitamin D while preening itself.

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

This also make interesting reading I believe. Again it is Human - which I feel are far beneath the wild life in regards health  / fitness and conditioning themselves.

 

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Noakes.htm

 

in this sense i would agree, roland, pigeons are far different from humans and nature allways has its way,,in the normal sense,,,, but i feel we actualy go against nature, by sending pigeons many miles and asking them to do many hours on the wing, therefore we have the need to help the bird recover asap,  as it is us that makes the bird do this, unnaturaly ,[fly these miles] therefore  i feel its up to us to aid recovery in any way we can, allthough im a firm beleiver in nature , and beleive nature to be a marvelous thing , there are many veiws on electrolytes , but i have to say, having given electolytes in one loft and not another, found the birds droppings returned quicker back to normal , with the birds in the loft that had been given electrolytes, , but agree in rest ,food , water and patience, and if the bird was fit b4 the race would recover on its own, quite quickly, but i do feel any help we can give them to recover, is up to us,,,as its us that puts them through it,, really un-naturaly

[Skull Lofts]

 

I'm sorry I missed your question when first posted.

 

I had always understood the 'preen gland' secreted oil for waterproofing the birds feathers. You see the birds take oil from the gland and spread it over the feathers. Well, I got that one wrong, because the waterproofing is done by powder down, from the bird's powder down feathers.

 

Preen gland 'oil' is actually fatty acid, and it contains antimicrobial agents. I've not been able to find out what these are, other than the ones that prevent the feathers being attacked by fungus. They also cntains something called 'a Vitamin D3 precursor' which is like 'part-baked' Vitamin D. The bird spreads this over its feathers, and the sun's UV light converts it to Vitamin D. The bird then eats this Vitamin D while preening itself.

 

 

No problem!

 

Thanks for the reply

 

 

[Guest IB]

This also make interesting reading I believe. Again it is Human - which I feel are far beneath the wild life in regards health  / fitness and conditioning themselves.

 

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Noakes.htm

 

I think there is a good comparison for us in the article: (1) Soldiers exercising in the desert for 8 hours without water, and birds flying home (not stopping for water). The soldiers recovered quickly afterwards given access to all the water they needed; (2) In the Dutch Transporter studies, groups of pigeons were deprived of water for 23 hours and held confined in up to 35C heat; they were fully rehydrated after 30 minutes after being given access to all the water they needed.

 

Dehydration after all means : 'short of water'.