Hawk attack

[Swifts]

 

Hey don't go throwing insults about mate, that's bang out of order and I'm saying that having had history with Chris (numpty) he has more sense in his little toe than your ever lilkely to have and is a respected member here even if he's heavily dosed up on times.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Seriously, if you ever want to be taken with any credability take your rose tinted glasses off and start looking through a 'Genuine' fanciers eyes, not one of us who has been affected by BOP would act as liberal as you which to me defies belief that you can be a true fancer.

 

You evaded my question of what club you fly in saying it as none of your business well it is because I would like to ask a few of your members what they opinion is on a raptor lover who puts the BOP before the pigeons we dedicate so much of our lives to.  Your ducking the question because you know as well as I do if you showed that atttitude to your club you'd be out on your backside quicker than a hawk attack on a one winged pigeon.

 

I for one doubt your credability and your mocking of members tells me your only on here to cause problems and not have a decent debate on how we can fairly address the issue as we should be.  Most Raptor keepers that I know, and I know a few don't have licences to keep their BOP.

 

Swifts, no disrespect mate but how on earth do you know how many releases survive or not, unless you go to the lenghts of tagging them which is massively expensive your only second guessing at best.

 

Here Here on your comments Gangster, the pigeon men are a generous lot and that's a fact, the RSPB are a bunch of money grabbers on extortionate wages for what, talking the talk and looking at half pictures.    > > > >

 

 

We knew how many survived as every wild disabled raptor which is re-released has a DEFRA ring fitted (all supplied by the government) I have never raced pigeons but I assume you use the IBR if one of your birds is lost? (please correct me if I'm wrong) the rings have an IBR contact number on them. If a bird is found dead and reported to the IBR the centre is contacted. Around 75% of the birds we released turned up dead. Add that to the numbers not reported and you get a whopping mortality rate. If the RSPB are releasing raptors then I pity them and the birds they release as a waste of valuable time and money. Wild bred raptors will survive quite nicely with no interference from humans. Captive bred raptors are generally  only good for falconry. As you can probably tell I'm not a great fan of the establishment either

 

 

[Swifts]

 

Hey don't go throwing insults about mate, that's bang out of order and I'm saying that having had history with Chris (numpty) he has more sense in his little toe than your ever lilkely to have and is a respected member here even if he's heavily dosed up on times.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Seriously, if you ever want to be taken with any credability take your rose tinted glasses off and start looking through a 'Genuine' fanciers eyes, not one of us who has been affected by BOP would act as liberal as you which to me defies belief that you can be a true fancer.

 

You evaded my question of what club you fly in saying it as none of your business well it is because I would like to ask a few of your members what they opinion is on a raptor lover who puts the BOP before the pigeons we dedicate so much of our lives to.  Your ducking the question because you know as well as I do if you showed that atttitude to your club you'd be out on your backside quicker than a hawk attack on a one winged pigeon.

 

I for one doubt your credability and your mocking of members tells me your only on here to cause problems and not have a decent debate on how we can fairly address the issue as we should be.  Most Raptor keepers that I know, and I know a few don't have licences to keep their BOP.

 

Swifts, no disrespect mate but how on earth do you know how many releases survive or not, unless you go to the lenghts of tagging them which is massively expensive your only second guessing at best.

 

Here Here on your comments Gangster, the pigeon men are a generous lot and that's a fact, the RSPB are a bunch of money grabbers on extortionate wages for what, talking the talk and looking at half pictures.    > > > >

 

 

Unfortunately nobody needs a liscence to own a bird of prey. Many falconers are lobbying for a system similar to that in the USA or Ireland, where only federally liscenced falconers are allowed to own birds, and these birds are indigenous species taken sustainably from the wild. Falconers are sick and tired of all of the muppets who go out and buy hawks with no prior knowledge. These people are bringing our great sport into dispute. If the above system was also backed by fraternities such as gamekeepers and pigeon fanciers as well as falconers then it may well work and have benefits for everyone.

 

 

[Guest]

No pigeons are not logged on the Independant Bird register if that's what you mean?  If we were to put rings on the birds for every purpose they'd be so blinged up they wouldn't get off the ground.   I accept the rings reported theory because that's fact, but as for making assumptions on those that aren't reported that's as useless as a tree without a stump.   :-/

 

pigeonpete, what do you mean the topic is drifting off a bit?   I thought we were talking about Hawk Attacks which would invariably lead to discussions on a wider scope including potential actions by both pro and anti BOP.   :-/

 

Back to you Swifts, is falconry recognised as a sport in the UK?  I never knew it was.  ???

[REDROCKET]

lots of you guys say that the ferrals dont get hawked who's doing the counting or are you just assuming this because no one on here has reported there ferruls getting hawked.lol

[pigeonpete]

No pigeons are not logged on the Independant Bird register if that's what you mean?  If we were to put rings on the birds for every purpose they'd be so blinged up they wouldn't get off the ground.   I accept the rings reported theory because that's fact, but as for making assumptions on those that aren't reported that's as useless as a tree without a stump.   :-/

 

pigeonpete, what do you mean the topic is drifting off a bit?   I thought we were talking about Hawk Attacks which would invariably lead to discussions on a wider scope including potential actions by both pro and anti BOP.   :-/

 

Back to you Swifts, is falconry recognised as a sport in the UK?  I never knew it was.  ???

 

sent you a pm jargre. thanks

[Guest]

No disrespect Swifts, but pigeon fanciers on this forum alone have been conned and misled by so called Falconers in the past, we find it very difficult to take on board anything that BOP people have to say. If you are genuine (and I hope you are) I am sure this forum will arrange for a delegation to meet up with a delegation from Falconers to try and get a better understanding of the situation/problem. Its people who come on here, just as wind up merchants, who are preventing reasonable and constructive debate to happen.

[les]

 

The raptor centre where I work used to be involved in the raptor release programs. They were put a stop to about ten years ago because they were doing fine by themselves. DEFRA no longer issues liscences to release captive bred raptors into the wild.

Also, as an experienced rehabber, I can tell you that 75% of released raptors don't make it past their first year (i.e orphaned birds or reconditioned injured birds) Nothing beats a natural upbringing by experienced wild hunting parents and a supply of wild-caught food which would not be provided by the RSPB. I will be the first to tell you that the RSPB doesn't actually have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to raptors. You want facts, talk to a falconer.

swifts ,they are still releasing them [i personally have held 3 rings of goss hawks and 2 rings of percy,s this last 2 months ]

 

 

[Roland]

Best time to shoot a Falcon must be when hooded and sitting on it's masters arm, if one missed good chance of getting the other... with a bit of luck a buck shot coul possibly do a real lot of good lol  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

Looking for a brain dead cretin to try it out on ....

What you doin Wednesday Skymaster :-/  ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

 

You go ahead go for it and enjoy your self in the jail

 

Had some good times in jail ;D ;D

[Guest]

There's no real debate here is there. As a pigeon man I would like to see hawks come off the endagered list, cause it ain't hawks that are endangered down here. At the moment the law is on skymaster's side, but it's a bit like mobile phones when driving a law enforced only when some one is caught red handed. By the way I have never fired a gun in my life but if I could get hold of one and learn to shoot straight I bloody would, it's a sickener. I'm afraid to let my birds out and keep them in 7 months a year.

Perhaps we should allow birds of prey to be bred in captivity only, they would not be endangered and would not endanger anyone else. If I had the money I'd also buy an eagle owl no half a dozen eagle owls just to get rid of percy in my area.

[Guest]

Best time to shoot a Falcon must be when hooded and sitting on it's masters arm, if one missed good chance of getting the other... with a bit of luck a buck shot coul possibly do a real lot of good lol  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

Looking for a brain dead cretin to try it out on ....

What you doin Wednesday Skymaster :-/  ;D ;D ;D

 

Now now Roland, don't get carried away.   ;D ;D ;D ;D   Seriously, read Allbears post below mate,  (above this one), he pretty much covers everything we fancy feel including at times wanting to put a bit of lead in the culprits who kill so many (and not just pigeons).   Captive breeding has been the answer to ALL ENDANGERED SPECIES from monkey to minky and always will be the only real way.  Sure we want to see percy's in their natural enviorenment (The Brecon Beacons comes to mind) but these Hawksters miss the plot, they just can't see that having BOPS in town centers and just about anywhere else is decimating the natural habitat of Britain and simply isn't on any more.   > > >

 

 

[maxwell]

Brecon Beacons well thats me f###ed  they are the first thing i see when i open the curtains every morning lol.

[Roland]

Yes we all .... well 98% like to see, in fact love to see the hawks / BOP /Raptures, that is a fact! However there is sense and reason to be called for here. Ok the RSPB have had a good time making money for immoral purposes in bed with a few politicians. But now it is the innocence gett sore arsed by their over indulgence.

They have become unfeeling and uncaring harlots of he worse kind. Fact that as everyone knows. They obtain money by deception and immoral uses, and crap from on high the very ones mistooken that they are in fact doing good for the Song Birds and likes of ALL bird kinds.

Now they know it better than 99% of Joe Public, but greed and self indulgance gets the better of them.

 

[Guest]

Brecon Beacons well thats me f###ed  they are the first thing i see when i open the curtains every morning lol.

 

I was thinking DEEP DEEP DEEP into the beacons Maxwell, perhaps 60ft under one of the resevoirs.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

 

[Guest]

Brecon Beacons well thats me f###ed  they are the first thing i see when i open the curtains every morning lol.

 

I bet you wish it was only the ones in the Beacons you had to worry about!

[Guest]

 

I bet you wish it was only the ones in the Beacons you had to worry about!

 

Never a truer word there Allbear and if I'm right I recall you saying your lofts were out in the sticks with a quarry of BOP nearby?   Fingers crossed we have none where we are, a few buzzards but no real danger but its only a matter of time the way things are going.  

 

 

[PIGEONJIMI]

Is anywhere safe ?  http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1118137_fast_food_for_falcon_chicks

[Sajfos]

Swifts You talk & write sh** .

Following your logic there ought to be no raptors in the urban areas ?...correct ?

Try speaking to a few Fanciers out in the sticks...Youll need to take Your fingers out of Your ears first !!

The next crap that gets touted is about raptors only taking the sick , unfit, or whatever excuse of the Day You care to believe ...I personally (witnessed) a Cock with 4 x1st Fed , ete, etc , in Racing trim knocked out of the sky by one of Your beloved "marvels of nature"

[Sajfos]

Swifts You talk & write sh** .

Following your logic there ought to be no raptors in the rural areas ?...correct ?

Try speaking to a few Fanciers out in the sticks...Youll need to take Your fingers out of Your ears first !!

The next crap that gets touted is about raptors only taking the sick , unfit, or whatever excuse of the Day You care to believe ...I personally (witnessed) a Cock with 4 x1st Fed , ete, etc , in Racing trim knocked out of the sky by one of Your beloved "marvels of nature"

[les]

Is anywhere safe ?  http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1118137_fast_food_for_falcon_chicks

if only that pigeon had a jacket on ,then the bloke taking the pic would have one worth looking at ,[see how the jacket would solve all the probs ,it would have its talons firmly in the jacket and a pigeon attached to its self for life ,o what would they say about a pic like that ] ;D

 

 

[Guest scoobybob]

if only that pigeon had a jacket on ,then the bloke taking the pic would have one worth looking at ,[see how the jacket would solve all the probs ,it would have its talons firmly in the jacket and a pigeon attached to its self for life ,o what would they say about a pic like that ] ;D

 

 

If I release 2 of my pigeons one will come back. Percy will have the other. Some times both get caught. I have tried to make these jackets but end up with velcro and fishing line stuck to my fingers. ;D They also seem to slip of the pigeon so I am doing something wrong. If someone would make a few jackets perhaps I would be able to copy them. Remember my pigeons are very small but these tipplers love to fly up there with the hawk. I also have a friend who keeps tipplers who wants to do the same thing. We would both release 2 birds each with jackets every other day or untill the birds are no longer taken. I quite often wonder why you racing fans do not keep a pair of tipplers to breed hawk bait.  

 

[Swifts]

Best time to shoot a Falcon must be when hooded and sitting on it's masters arm, if one missed good chance of getting the other... with a bit of luck a buck shot coul possibly do a real lot of good lol  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

Looking for a brain dead cretin to try it out on ....

What you doin Wednesday Skymaster :-/  ;D ;D ;D

 

Falconers birds are not the ones taking your pigeons. I would appreciate it if you didn't make this personal. We have to go to great lengths to get permission on remote ground to fly our hawks on. We do not let them loose in towns to kill willy nilly like cat owners do.

 

 

[Swifts]

swifts ,they are still releasing them [i personally have held 3 rings of goss hawks and 2 rings of percy,s this last 2 months ]

 

 

Well then. That's up to them. Falconers cannot release rehabilitated birds but the RSPB can. However you forget that the RSPB rings wild eyasses while they are still in the nest? Could this be where the rings are from? Did you happen to see the initials BOS on the rings?  I genuinely can't see the point if they are releasing birds into the wild. It is illegal to intentionally release any captive-bred animal into the wild, but I'm sure they can find a way around it.... By the way you can still release orphaned or injured BOP so that may account for any releases shown on TV etc. I think I speak for most falconers when I say that I do not condone or support the RSPBs actions on this matter in any way.

 

[Swifts]

Swifts You talk & write sh** .

Following your logic there ought to be no raptors in the urban areas ?...correct ?

Try speaking to a few Fanciers out in the sticks...Youll need to take Your fingers out of Your ears first !!

The next crap that gets touted is about raptors only taking the sick , unfit, or whatever excuse of the Day You care to believe ...I personally (witnessed) a Cock with 4 x1st Fed , ete, etc , in Racing trim knocked out of the sky by one of Your beloved "marvels of nature"

 

I never said they would take only sick/injured/whatever pigeons. I have seen wild and captive bred raptors taking fit wild quarry in full flight, nobody knows the power of destruction of raptors more than people who work with them every day. Several times on this thread I have suggested a truce between gamekeepers, pigeon fanciers etc (anti-hawk people) with falconers in order to rally for new legislation on birds of prey which will benefit everyone. I have been open minded and accepted people's views. I know that raptors cause you inconvenience and such, but like it or not there are people out there who enjoy their presence as well. I am perfectly willing to support your arguments against the RSPB who, in my opinion know very little about birds of prey. However as they are a charity the public assume that they are the authority on raptors and anything else they may choose to represent. What this country needs is a board run by people affected by birds of prey and who have the knowledge and motivation to bring about change. I care as much for hawks living in the middle of nowhere as I do the ones who I fly and hunt with. There is a way around this, everyone just needs to realise that one single organisation is simply not strong enough to make a difference. I am speaking as much for the benefit of your sport as I am my own.

 

 

[Roland]

Swift you come on here to make it personal. Simple that. No you nor the other git get under my skin.... far too intelligent for you and cubert the toed for that to happen. But like to be informative like. Being ignorants, uncouthed and even remotely brain dead, doesn't really exonerate you dip dick. But I blame the father, and gosh whatever was your mothers thinking about letting twerps like you near them.... or is that down to ilk of feathersrs flocking together :-/ :-/ Of course, so that's another life mistery solve eh! Streuth   :o