EYES WHAT U THINK!!!

[Guest]

I too dream of Utopia, but in the pigeon game in particular I have learned that it is never going to happen. I now try to associate only where I am liked, and tread a path of looking to enjoy myself, my birds and my family for as long as I can, while I can. We have endeavored here, to get the game running smoothly, over the years, poured thousands into it, all to no avail! Still got burned out, still had the family attacked, still getting the abusive phone calls, still not allowed to fly in our own local village club for being decent competitors, etc. I don't hate the perpertrators of these heinous acts, I PITY THEM! For they know not what is to be a sporting person, to live with respect for others, to have love and bonding in their family and a shared interest in their hobbies. They only know hatred and destruction, fear and loathing, and above all sheer cowardice! Their upbringing has been considerably weeker than mine ever was, and how sad must that be? The forum does field an across the board selection of people, all of who I have had contact with so far seem to be good decent people, but as always, there are some who I know of, not had contact with mind, that are trouble. You just have to trail through some old threads and hey appear, just like a cancer gene! Overall, this is a really enjoyable site, I just try to stay away from any bother / politics and stay in the "banter" zones wher you can be a little light hearted and just have a laugh. Anyway, we have digressed from the eyesign thread, lets get back to that!

I'll close by saying this, whenever someone mentions eyesign to me, my thoughts immediately turn to South Africa and my family there, EVERY TIME.

Dave.

[Guest]

Hi Timbarra,

 

I stand corrected on Sir Alex Ferguson's coaching badge! I am dissapointed that you are still choosing to leave the forum. I hope that you change your mind, and also open it a little to explore the eyesign theory a little more, even if you don't beleive in it!

All the best,

Dave

 

 

[Roland]

Spencer, it is fine, and I like most would say healthy to disagree, and offer views. Not so to be 'Disagreeable, which I feel may be implied to you. I, for one, certainly don't believe that to be the case.

Now that is where most 'Eye Theorist' let their side down They often take umbrage and , or sulk. Only ever knew one that always had a answer in relationship to the 'Eye Theory' and he would always also  substantiate with a lot more reasoning on the subject.

But one must also remember that there is no 'Code' or 'Practise' let alone a fundemental basis, let alone a mandate! It isn't even scientifically feasible. So then it must be definately the opposite in reaction!

That is - to me - the biggest failing in the Eye theory game, that there is no agreed upon basis, or fundemental formatt amongst the so - called experts, which if there was any basis to the ability then there would be.

But Spence, no disrespect, but I doubt very much if you will get an answer. Try Albear, for I feel he would definately have an oppinion, and one worth of note.

[timbarra]

davey , i do believe in eyesign but not as a selection tool and not to propose a pigeons ability, cheers anyway for your reply,

 

roland thanks for your words , they are taken on board and maybe hopefully we could meet up and have a cool drink in the sun, and talk pigeons for an hour,

 

 

thank you all spencer.

[Jack Barkel]

Timbarra/ Spencer

 

I can answer the questions and I have got documented proof of my studies through a reputable society of iridologists, although there is not a degree in "Pigeon Iridology".

 

I however decline to provide you with the extent or source of my studies, I have given you no cause neither do I think you are justified to query my authenticity at anything I have achieved. Yuo are just a rude ill mannered prig

 

I did not say I was the great Jack Barkel, you said it and must have either heard it somewhere or believe it is so????

You are really not worth corresponding with, as I find you ignorant and lacking in most departments of debate, and your own educational background is questionable from the way in which you continuously conduct yourself.

 

Unlike Davey, for the sake of the list I will be glad to see the back of you, and can inform you already there are a few lists to which you  are a positive No No.

 

I am listed as a teacher and lecturer and was registered as such with the old Transvaal Education Department, until the change of government in 1994.

During that time I was used to having to deal with semi evolved beings like you for years, trying to put in what was left out at birth. I have qualified experiece in trying to make the hearts of people like yourself as soft as their heads.

 

Do not threaten us you are going to leave, do it now and take all your stupid rubbish ideas with you. We have learned nothing from you other than how to be rude, ill mannered and personal. How your family can ever be proud of you and your actions in life beats me. I can't see how you will be missed on this forum for anything other than your disruptive uneducated bad personality.

 

I held out the hand of friendship time after time and on each occasion you have insultingly swept it away. I can only assume you are a spoiled brat,void of moral worth.

 

I certainly have proved myself a better man than you on and off this forum and that was not a difficult task by any means.

 

The challenge is still open to you should you ever decide to show everyone the courage of your own convictions.

 

Good day to you Spencer and may I never hear a word about you or your pityful display of feelings anymore.

 

Jack Barkel

 

[Roland]

I personally believe jacks posts are offensive barrage is belittling and of no value, let alone use, to any one, and certainly not at in the interest of the Eye Theory in any way shape or form.  

Why is it, unfortunately, always the same when one asks for a clarifaction, or explaination of any fundemental, any realistic thought put to an Eye theorist that it ends ups with the belittling, insulting barra!?

Yes I understand that when one is dealing with a theory, at best, with obviously no roof ever being available, but the insults etc.! No need, and it puts down every other 'Eye Debate' as just not worth the hassle.

Why don't I believe? more like why haven't I ever tried to understand! Precisely because of the above.

Secondarily, whenever a debate is raised on nigh ANY subject, the eye theorists take over the debate, saying simple 'Ah, if only you knew what I knew....' Nodd nodd wink wink.

No wonder the art - if there is indeed any - of Eye Theory - is being given a wide, an every growing wider berth.

[Jack Barkel]

Roland,

 

I never belittle anyone who has been taught good manners, and who do not direct their ill mannered attitude in my direction.You having been in the position of  doing just that recently and are not entirely free of blame.

 

I have contributed a lot on eye sign to this list in an inofensive manner, and I think both you and Timbarra are not as capable or well balanced in this department as you would like people think.

 

Why don't you put up pictures of your single tube eye and double tube eye, why don't you explain the origin of the star clusters you mention. Because you cant', you have nothing to offer. Your material did not show one word of your own compilation, because you have not got any.  If you do not degrade me, you will be treated like a gentleman, if you continue to pass comment on my character and demand I produce my bonafides on this site like your uncouth friend, then I will oppose your comments.

 

If the list thinks I am the one being offensive, then I will stop contributing. I have a lot to offer here without having to deal with people like you and Spencer who in my opinion have poroved to the list, that you can't conduct yourselves in a proper civilised manner. No Roland my posts are not offensive, but when people appear that way to me I tell the truth.

 

Now once again I request that you leave me alone. I have only answered offensive remarks against me, since your letter about Fleming and myself.

 

You are the guilty person and Spencer makes another good bed fellow for you.

 

If there are no more uncalled for remarks about me and personal quiries as to my being here there will be no need to protect the principals I stand for.

 

Maybe you do not like me because I am far advanced to you on the subject, and many subjects probably, who know what drives you in such an aggressive personal manner directed at me. Why don't you come out and tell the truth.

 

There is no point in staying on this list until the pest exterminators are brought in, and remove all

[Jack Barkel]

The last letter suddenly was sent out before I had finished editing it, my English is better than that I can assure everyone. It suddenly went up on the forum without me pressing any post reply button.

 

If this list thinks I have nothing to contribute to eye sign, I will gladly stop giving any advice on the subject. I do not need to take petty insults at this time of my life. I think the comments against me are grossly out of order.

 

Jack Barkel

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Folks,

 

I took a photograph of the eye of one of my top breeding Cocks, I arrowed and detailed each part of the eye, then I proceeded to publish each segment of this particular eye, so that everyone could understand the basics of the rings in the eye.

This is complete with explanations and published on a private 100% peaceful forum which I am the owner of.

 

These illustrations and explanations met with such great interest that I was in the process of making them available on this list.

Unfortunately I feel that there are some unfriendly characters on here that cannot stand the mention of me, so I have decided that although I am not removing myself from this forum. I feel it is not a healthy place to try and make any intelligent input.

 

There are many top fanciers who have withdrawn from this forum because of people who just want it as a chat show, where no person must dare to influence anyone else about any theories, by making any intelligent contribution. To do so and present an opinion to a theory is to attract the wrath of these people who would rather insult than discuss.

 

I am afraid, that to put anything forward on this thread is like standing on a soap box at Hyde park corner. A place for hecklers and none descripts that never tried to put forward anything of merit in life. There can be no progress or value to this forum while people have this attitude.

 

The anti social behaviour of many members, will  prevent this list from being anything more than what it appears to be at the moment, " A Bull Bait". It is a mental situation seen in many places. Those who are not part of this degeneracy and have to live with this anti social attitude know what I am saying.

 

So folks, I have decided that there are much more peaceful and pleasant places where my contributions will be appreciated, for this is not a place of regular organised society, far from it.

 

I am not leaving, I will still look in to watch if there is any progress from the rudeness and dogfights that are common place here.

 

Best Wishes to the nice, friendly, mature, and commonsense fanciers I met here.

 

No one needs to be offended, for I am not being offensive as I have been accused, I am just voicing a practical observation that no educated person can deny.

 

Jack Barkel

[timbarra]

Dear Jack,

I have if you read and re-read my messages to you , i have never insulted you or made any rude or nasty comments about you, i only asked what qualifications you have to which you can claim to be an expert. god do you really think people are going to just accept your word without question , just because you say so without any proof. and will you not stop going on about challenges, god will you ever get over your self obsessed manner of thinking everybody is against you. and as for mr bob flemming , i never knew the man but the lack of respect you have for the sadly passed away people of this world is very concerning, you seem to insult the living and insult the dead, can you not let anybody have an opinion of their own or think differently to you.

you seem a very bitter and twisted old man, for whatever has made you this way is very sad indeed, i have never wished you any ill feeling , and yes you have offered the hand of friendship, only then when i do not agree with you slapped me with the other hand. how very odd you are.

i am at a loss with how to approach you so i shall not endeavor to do so, basically for the fear of causing you some anguish you think i cause, i must tell you that one day very soon eyesign will have evolved into something of fact and it will then be accepted, but alas i do think you will not be one of the pioneers of this, as your thinking and ideas and non logical and theory practices do not carry one shread of proof and shall be shunned by most rather than the few.

roland i think is a sensible guy with reasoning as one of he's major qualities, something that you can never posses jack, and insults as you throw shall always be deemed ignorant and a tool of neandrathal man. you sir i think are going the way of the dinosaur, soon to be extinct.

 

if i am such a no. no. in certain areas as you put it, ask yourself if this is true why is it only yourself seems to want to argue with me, when all i am doing is debating and looking for answers which still you lack the repect to give.

 

like i said to you in possibly my first message to you, pigeon fanciers can never admit they are wrong , they are part of the .... i am always right brigade and i know it all.

 

as for insulting my family as you have done as refering to them in your recent massage to me, i think this action is of the very lowest on any itegrity scale possible. i have never once said anything to insult your family and shall not stoop so low,

 

you sir are a man of little repect for the living or the dead, and lack integrity and confidence in your own life, you are self obsessed and rude without thinking.

 

i shall be complaining about the insults you have aimed at me.

 

 

regards to all spencer. :-/

[Roland]

Well tell us something Jack! Explain some things Jack!

Actually put something up tangible to be of use, interest to the readers on here.

[timbarra]

hi roland

i do not need anything tangible to read, its like yourself i would rather stick to facts than one or two mens ideas , eyesign men , as i am sure you would agree never back anything up with hard facts just a challenge , when really most of us have better things to do with our time... so i will ask Jack i will hold your challenge and that challenge is this.... if you or better still save you travelling , your nephew sorry to rope you in on this davey B , travel to my loft and note down in what relationship my pigeons are one to another and every pigeon i hand you , choose both parents.. and in return if you get every one of them right , and i mean everyone of them, i will put an apology and nationally accept your theories as true.. and i mean you tell me every pigeons relationship one to another....

 

 

this should be very interesting!!

[Guest]

Hi Timbarra,

the anecdotes I mentioned in my posts are factual, why would I lie, what do I have to gain by them? As I keep saying in my posts if you re-read them, I AM NOT AN EXPERT, and on top of that I have never professed to being an expert. I do not go around doing exhibitions / seminars as I don't have enough knowledge on the subject. Eyesign is an interest to me, and yes I use it to grade my own pigeons, but as I have already said, it is part of my jigsaw, not used in place of it! When I use it to help grade my own pigeons, the result is that I stand to win or lose by it, no-one else. When I have been requested to have a look at other peoples birds, I do so under duress, with the afore mentioned statements well and truly explained, and the agreement that my opinions DO NOT govern the outcome of whether the fancier requesting culls them or not!

I have no intention of becoming roped in to any challenge you issue, as I have never said that I could tell you or anyone else what parentage your birds had. Your challenge to me is unacceptable, and uncalled for. I have treat you with dignity and respect, and tried to reason with you, giving you nothing more than true occurrences that in my opinion, any half decent pigeon man also could have done. My point being, a person of limited knowledge on eyesign did them by eyesign alone, so what could people do with it that had studied it for years?

The bickering on the site is spoiling it, but in no way am I frightened of a challenge, so I'll finish off with this;

If you want me to come and have a look at your pigeons, I can do that. If you want me to give you my opinion on them, I can do that. If you want me to nominate what every bird is bred from, I cannot do that, Nor can I part waves, turn water into wine, feed 5,000 people with a few loaves and fishes! All I can do is give you my opinion on your birds, which as I have already stated in one of my responses to you, look impressive by the photo's on your web-site. I cannot say the same for your cats though, I don't like cats! I am no Bill Carney, it is an interest to me, not a profession.

I trust the response is as interesting as you wanted it to be.

[timbarra]

hi davey, i will apologise for the challenge , its directed at you but thought you studied more than i thought, i can however pick parents of pigeons as eyesign is a genetic fingerprint , i am sorry but i think i may have thought you were more into it than i thought mate, please please accept my apology , i did not mean to offend you in anyway, it really is a challenge to your uncle as he keeps telling me i should challenge him . so the challenge is to jack and the same terms apply with no side stepping or excusses made, hope your well davey and your respose was sensible and just as i was wrong to mention you in the message sorry.

 

regards spencer..

[Guest]

Hi Spencer,

 

Apology accepted! I wish you well in your endeavors, and if you can really tell the parents of pigeons by the eyes, then much respect to you for that. I have no reason to doubt your abilities, it is an impressive skill to boast. Maybe you could start a thread disclosing your skills and let us all learn from them. It certainly would be of interest to me and numerous others interested in eyesign. Be wary though mate, you will be opening yourself to doubters who will probably cast aspersions in your direction!

 

With Best Wishes,

Davey

[timbarra]

hi davey, i have had 4 articles published in the BHW explaining my methods and studies, however i know doubters are all around, i shall give you as much information as you want regarding my findings and once you have read them , you can try and see for yourself and make up your own mind, use it or cast it to the side, its your call, i am still waiting for jack to take up the gauntlett so to speak , but if he does not it will be ok, i think he wont as he can not tell one pigeons relationship to another just by looking in the eye, but thats what i tried to explain eyesign has evolved , it must move forward not held in the 60 and 70s or 80s even... move it forward.

i was just like alleyesign men once , i got caught up on the evaluation of a pigeons ability using the eye... but someone said something to make me step off and re-study my methods and bloody hell it was an eye opener i can tell you, i discovered that eyesign can be used and should only be used to confirm parentage of individaul birds, not having to rely on pedigree or someones word. we had a method due to eyes being a genetically inherited trait and a genetic fingerprint of the pigeon...

 

now your thinking i can tell, regards spencer

[Guest Paulo]

"I can however pick parents of pigeons as eyesign is a genetic fingerprint''

 

sounds a bit cheaper than a dna test lol ;D

[Guest]

Good one Paolo, at last a return to humour!

 

[timbarra]

well i not gonna knock humour , it is all about enjoying your birds,

 

 

spencer

[timbarra]

i am still waiting for Jack Barkel to take up my offer and challenge that he pushed for...... i wait for your reply jack resectfully yours spencer, i noticed you been on the forum but alas not replyed?

 

hope your well.

[Jack Barkel]

NOTICE.

 

I do not wish to carry on bickering with those who have a habit to try and get me to write on this forum. As I have said, until someone wishes to ask me questions on a subject, I have no desire to force my presence on anybody. My records have gone before me all over the world, I do not need to prove my capabilities or professionalism here to a virtual unknown nondescript, or to anyone else who feels they can become better recognised by locking  horns with me on a limited distribution forum.

 

Spencer I gave you a chance to desist, it seems you are unwilling or unable to do so. I have under professional instruction, been waiting for this last inexcusable remark from you so now there is no forgiveness or turning back. Now you will see what I am made of, for I am not playing your childish games anymore.

 

To Spencer / Timbarra, I ISSUE THIS CHALLENGE.

 

Jack Barkel,  will meet you at an independent venue to be arranged, where we will each inspect a loft of pigeons unknown to each of us. We will conduct this contest on stage and in front of an audience of Fanciers. We will examine and make a computer entry of our findings, on each bird.

 

It will cost myself in the region of Two Thousand Pounds plus advertising and Lawyers fees to make this a day for fanciers all over England to remember and for me to take part in this contest. We will charge an entrance fee to help cover expenses and expect to fill a decent sized venue.

There will be judges and scrutinizers to see that there is no irregularities.

We will each perform to the best of our ability and be judged who is beneficial and the most accurate evaluator to the fancy by evaluating each bird. The object being to prove which person can give the most beneficial and true assessment of each bird. For this is what I do, which you claim I can't do.

 

My lawyer who is a pigeon fancier will be present to oversee correct proceedings.

 

We will be responsible for advertising this challenge, and see that there is a good turn out. If agreeable, then you and I will each pay the required fee, approximately two thousand pounds each, to an independent firm of lawyers up front, before I set foot in England.

 

The winner takes all proceeds after all expenses are paid.

 

After the demonstration, I will address the audience, before you run off from the stage. Just to let you know I have something else planned for you, I intend to see that the defeat of a bigot is complete. Once you lose, you will be issued a summons on stage for all the unnecessary inconvenience hurt and defamatory assertions to my professional abilities, which will be proven you have put in question.

 

No person in his right mind would accept the silly challenge you keep insisting I am avoiding. For it is not even a proper challenge.

 

If this is not acceptable, please be intelligent enough not to refer to me on Pigeon Basics again. As this is my profession and as I was decent and well mannered enough not to ask you your bona fides, either please desist now, if not I will sue you, that is not an idle threat. This is asked of you in all fairness, please stop this nonsense now before there is a legal case in which all letters on this forum appertaining to your outbursts will be produced as evidence against you.

 

I have been informed your accusations against me are libellous and defamatory, as I have been earning a substantial living by providing the service you are decrying me of, my bona fides will be produced in a court law. I am finished trying to humour your low mentality.

 

Accept the challenge so I can prove your accusations are unwarranted, or be prepared for further proceedings against you unless you desist. NOW.

 

If you meet the challenge, you will be sent a form underlying all the rules and regulations for such a contest.

The choice is yours as I will not bear the brunt of your childish utterances any longer. Put up, or shut up, and let this be an end to this silly altercation.

 

I think that it would be more fitting that you reply to me privately so that the list  members do not need to be bored with all this childish stupidity.

 

Jack Barkel

jackbarkel@mweb.co.za

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

[Roland]

Golly the rattle has followd the covers out of the pram now lol ... as

[timbarra]

dear jack, as i have statted i cannot evalate a pigeons eye as you afore mention, so there can be no challenge, i shall not be replying to you again, and wish you well and no ill feeling.

 

spencer

[Guest Greig the doo Drysdale]

number 1 looks like it's been in a fire or tar oored over it. eye's dont know anything about eye's as long as they win  dont care about eye sign. Just my opinion

[Wiley]

wondering if the eye sign people called just inrom me ive heard so much about the green eye, what the green eye represents and if they have a picture of it, as i think i have two here in my yb team