micci Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 the eye number 18 is great, very fit at time of pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micci Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 are you able to pick out stock birds by there eyes, without chancing them up the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 micci, on the assumption that you are a novice, because you have not been on here long, please be careful. I think that this idea of eyesign is a load of nonsense, but we have to agree that there are a lot of people who love to study pigeons' eyes. So I hope you will not mind if I say that you should treat it all with great care. At the end of the day the only pigeons that are any good are the ones that win races. Why not do what I did for some years. Note the eyes and carry on racing them as normal. At the end of each year look at what is left and which ones showed up best when they raced. Also look at the young bird performances and relate them back to the so called breeder's eye. If you work this way you will quickly make up your own mind, without wasting years messing about with something that is just a wast of time. I always concentrate on birds with wins under their belt. I never, these days, breed from birds that have not won anything. What else is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIGEON_MAN Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 micci, on the assumption that you are a novice, because you have not been on here long, please be careful. I think that this idea of eyesign is a load of nonsense, but we have to agree that there are a lot of people who love to study pigeons' eyes. So I hope you will not mind if I say that you should treat it all with great care. At the end of the day the only pigeons that are any good are the ones that win races. Why not do what I did for some years. Note the eyes and carry on racing them as normal. At the end of each year look at what is left and which ones showed up best when they raced. Also look at the young bird performances and relate them back to the so called breeder's eye. If you work this way you will quickly make up your own mind, without wasting years messing about with something that is just a wast of time. I always concentrate on birds with wins under their belt. I never, these days, breed from birds that have not won anything. What else is there? Dont you class pigeons that breed winners as being good birds then,my best breeders have never been my best racers,infact most of them have never raced they were just chosen on their eye and in nearly all cases they have bred winners.I can assure anyone Eyesign as you say is not a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl adams Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 if a bird has grayish blue eye and no other color in it what eye type is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 if a bird has grayish blue eye and no other color in it what eye type is it a pic of possible would be better and then can tell you more better to answer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl adams Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 i cant take pics of the eyes but will try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl adams Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 here s the pic hope you can make this out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl adams Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gareth Rankin Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 First thought Karl was that was a photo of a seal then i remembered it was a pigeon site. ;) :P ;D ;D 8) 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl adams Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 i take it the pics no good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micci Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 what do you think to this eye ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micci Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 what do you think to this eye ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micci Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 No im not a novice, been racing on and off for 51 years, top prize-winner many times in good competition, i agree that eye-sign is not the be all and end all, all things have to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well micci, I think you and I are at the opposite ends of a attitude to eyesign. So it is very unlikely that either of us could convince the other about it. The only thing I know is that progress in terms of performance improvement can not be done unless there is proper progeny testing. And I am willing to concede that it is very possible to breed winners from birds that have never raced. Equally, there are plenty of people who buy their stock birds because they are said to contain winning blood. And there is no doubt that some do produce winners. Mind you a heck of a lot don't. To me it is common sense to breed from the birds that have actually won races because we know that they can do it. And before you jump on me, I know that winners do not always pass their genes on to their progeny. I think that it is because the gene we need is recessive and does not pass to to the next generation in the form we would like. However, once we have located the birds with the recessive gene we want, we can pair them together and produce the performances we want. The rub comes from the fact that any improvements are usually small and it takes time to gain any real advantage by breeding in this way. And to make this technique really work in our favour we should keep a large number of pigeons. The larger the numbers the better the mathmatical odds of having an opportunity to make the right selections. As I probably told you before, I have examined eyesign in a lot of detail before today. And I have kept detailed records of the eyesign in the parents and the performance of the offspring. At that time I could not pick up a pigeon without automatically looking into the eye. I found nothing to help me with my selection of racers or breeders. The reality is that you have a one in four chance of breeding really good pigeons from the best breeders and a two in four chance of breeding unsuitable pigeons from the same pair. The remaining one is usually what I call a journeyman. It does the job but is never outstanding. And yes I know that, some years your best breeders produce a lot of good birds while other years the opposite is true. And at the end of all the points of view on eyesign, or anything else, that is how is will be. It is also interesting to note that most Fanciers of note will still loose around half of their young bird team each year if they send to all the races. And it is from the remaining half that is left that the good birds will come. That is why I like to breed my own birds rather than buy them in continually. I am familiar with mine and I can select the best each year easier than if I was dealing with strangers. I would very interested to learn if your experience matches mine. And providing you race your youngsters all the way, what sort of eyesign is in the ones that are left with you. It would also be helpful if you could offset this information against to eyesign in the ones that has gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr mrs arnold sons Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 this is the eye of my messac winner this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micci Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I agree with a lot of your points of view regarding eye-sign, it is not the be all and end all, to found a loft upon. but many years ago i did pick out a top stock pair from over 40 birds at a clearance sale when i restarted in the sport, but i selected them in the dark for balance , feathering etc' before i even looked into their eyes. I was left with about eight birds, disposing of the others. I then went over them several times before i made my final choice, i picked a Dark pied cock with what could be described as having a green eye and a little blue pied hen with a true gold eye, this pair bred me over 20 1st prize winners out to Poitiers 421 miles, the hen was killed by a cat two years later, both bred winners with other mates, but none where ever lost from them as a pair, but half was lost with other partners. When i called it a day i gave the cock and a few of his sons and daughters to a club mate who went on to breed winner after winner with them out to Thurso, about 435 miles, year after year in good competition. I restarted again in 2006 with birds from two different top fanciers and have a team of 12 cocks for next season,some have good eye-sign, some not so good, but all their eyes tell me they have a good constitution with eyes shining like fires which is what i really look for in an eye. For some reason that im not sure of, im able to go to a fanciers loft and pick out his best couple of breeders and am often asked to do this... The pic of your bird reminds me of a Cheq hen that i had, that won 8x 1sts but never bred me a winner, i have a pic of her eye which i will put on here for you to have a look at. These days with ill health i just enjoy having my birds around me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogeon Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 this is a 09 youngsters eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kev d Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 we need albear on this he,s the eye man come on alan where are you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bakes Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 this is a 09 youngsters eye nice eye that sue has the yb done well for you and pete this season all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogeon Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 hi bakes, he hasnt done to bad for me lol we have our own birds and race against each other this one has been consistant but he's the best trapper i've seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorsloft Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 late breed gabby last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorsloft Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 600 miles plus this one ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorsloft Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 600 mls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorsloft Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 stock cock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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