Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 \That`s rubbish hotrod,real distance birds ain`t that stupid,if they got to get back up next morning to fly another 10 -12 hours and maybe a few more the day after ,they know when and where to rest up.Pigeons that fly 16 hours in a day are 1 in 10,000 and may well fly a few hours next morning but time on wing destroys not distance. Asha hotrod has won a national into one of the hardest loft locations in scotland,around 580 miles so i know who i would listen too. ;D ;D ;D
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Asha hotrod has won a national into one of the hardest loft locations in scotland,around 580 miles so i know who i would listen too. ;D ;D ;D Hi Vincent, great performance by hotrod, something to be very very proud of. That doesn't mean on this point that Hotrod is right, there's a lot of sense in what Asha says. I've seen some of his posts in the past on PIPA going back 5/6 years ago and I can tell you he does have great knowledge, it would be good to hear his views though on what he would do. No offence meant Vincent or Hotrod to win at 580 miles is fantastic, to win a National brilliant.
Guest IB Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 The thread was started by a fancier in Scotland, and the difference in preparations available to, and expectations between fanciers in Scotland and 'south of the border' do show. A 'Channel' race is usually around 500 miles to us, so we can't 'get one in' as prep. The Holy Grail is a day bird. So the birds are expected to fly 15/16 hours on the day. Many now expect the same bird to do the same again 3 weeks later. A Gold Award requires 5 open wins for the same bird in these events, hence 2 events per year. Many advocate 'a good 8 hour fly' a few weeks prior to the main event. That is why SNFC and SNRPC usually stage an Inland National of 350 miles, 3 weeks prior to their Premier Channel Race.
Roland Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Different birds need different amounts of work for those sort of races there are no hard and fast rules of what to give a bird thats down to the fancier knowing their birds well enough to know what they need and when they are right to send You could follow say exactly what i do with our birds and it wouldnt work because its a system that works well for our birds and may not for yours Id go for couple of 250ml races then into 500+ but I agree with what has been said previously its not the mileage you are looking for its the hours that they need preferably about 8hrs going 250mls with the wind up their a**e is not what you want Lot depends on what sort of race you get as well if you get an easy 500ml race where they are doing the sort of velocities that you would expect to get from sprint/middle distance racing having a bird that has had plenty of work probably wont hurt if it turns out a dodgy race where they arent home on the day had it hard the first day and still got get up the next day i would prefer to have a bird thats been bit underworked than overworked for it Very true.
hotrod Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 \That`s rubbish hotrod,real distance birds ain`t that stupid,if they got to get back up next morning to fly another 10 -12 hours and maybe a few more the day after ,they know when and where to rest up.Pigeons that fly 16 hours in a day are 1 in 10,000 and may well fly a few hours next morning but time on wing destroys not distance. well asha you better get some good scottish birds then 1 in 10,000 go back to sleep youve not had enough i only breed 30/36 yougsters a year and have had plenty to time in in 15/16 hours on day and you wouldn,t think they flew round the house birds properly prepaired and right are like this mate
hotrod Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 The thread was started by a fancier in Scotland, and the difference in preparations available to, and expectations between fanciers in Scotland and 'south of the border' do show. A 'Channel' race is usually around 500 miles to us, so we can't 'get one in' as prep. The Holy Grail is a day bird. So the birds are expected to fly 15/16 hours on the day. Many now expect the same bird to do the same again 3 weeks later. A Gold Award requires 5 open wins for the same bird in these events, hence 2 events per year. Many advocate 'a good 8 hour fly' a few weeks prior to the main event. That is why SNFC and SNRPC usually stage an Inland National of 350 miles, 3 weeks prior to their Premier Channel Race. spot on IB how many have you had to time in 15/16 hrs on day@ ,just to let asha know
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 spot on IB how many have you had to time in 15/16 hrs on day@ ,just to let asha know Would be good to see the answers for 1 -7 on sappers question of those that have posted above and not answered. Also how many do you know hotrod that have flown 580 miles in 15/16 hours on the day? I'd love to kniow where these modern day birds are in abundance.
hotrod Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Would be good to see the answers for 1 -7 on sappers question of those that have posted above and not answered. Also how many do you know hotrod that have flown 580 miles in 15/16 hours on the day? I'd love to kniow where these modern day birds are in abundance. scotland mate have a look at some of the results put up by these fantastic fliers in SNRPC+SNFC the past few years as for answering 1-7 not a chance mate 32 years of hard work and listening to better fliers than me.
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 scotland mate have a look at some of the results put up by these fantastic fliers in SNRPC+SNFC the past few years as for answering 1-7 not a chance mate 32 years of hard work and listening to better fliers than me. Not prepared to help with your knowledge? We could all benefit from the ways of a double national winner. That doesn't answer the question where is the info that backs this up? How many this year flew 15/16 hrs flying 580 miles, I'd be fascinated to know
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 10 to 12 hours on the day are middle distance birds as hotrod stated.Long distance scottish pigeons fly 14 to 16 hours aday with both scottish national clubs,Every national race into scotland that is 500mls plus taking into account we get an early morning lib then the pigeons are flying 14 to 16 hours on the day.
Roland Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 You know, the more I ask, the more it becomes apparent that setting up for the 'Distance etc. the more one see two defining ways... the one tried and test so forth of racing and educating young birds, and Berwick for lerwick etc - getting them up to half way them a week off before the 'Big one' is fast fading and losing patrons of this way. Seems that now, many hardly toss (like me) y/b's and never race them. Then lightly raced as yearlings, two or three. 150 - 250 miles first race for sitting hens. Even 400 od first race for yearlings. Yes some even send Pau as their first race with great results ... Seems further to me, and a pet topic of mine granted, that too many treat and act for what they deem would be best for them, for a human! We can't educate them ... we can make them happy and feeling SAFE in their enviorment. They can become loft fit via not training, indeed most sucessful fanciet I ever had the grace to know never ever sent a bird, old or young more than 20 miles, and swore that if, and once a bird had done 50 miles it could go and return in great time from anywhere. We don't, can't teach them landmarks, nor breaking points. we don't know, only summise how they do home. We do know that Condition and health creates it's own motivation A love of home, an wanting to get tere. How we arrive that we can get them to that state is really puffed up self pride... We only know what SEEMS to work, with many different things that could be the real essence of how and why. For a certainyty Many pigeons excell and do well INSPITE of us. So for me it is KISS, and let them that will develope a love of their home. A home where they feel safe, are fed and looked after - they never need educating how to look after them selves either. A natural mating cycle and a healthy natural rearing of young. These form and course a bonding with their home and enviorpment, which some will love and want more of than others. the more thay want it, better the pigeon. the lesser, well don't hurry back, and the lesser still decide to go else where from time to time... Most pigeons don't get lost, they just bugger off!
hotrod Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 sorry boys been out walking dog ,i have been asked how to set birds to fly 500 miles plus many many times , but say the same thing what works for me might not work for you, but if anybody try,s to tell me that scottish birds liberated at say 5.30 am only fly 10/12hrs a day from france say about 500/600 miles prob fly to newcastle/durham area 3 or 4hrs from home are stopping between 3.30 and 5.30pm DONT THINK SO . Say that to any decent national man in scottland and they will laugh at you .
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Big difference between 500 mile and 580. But lets accept 500 mile how many are winning at 15/16 hours on the day??? Asha is right lads, you haven't got these birds have you?? 10/12 hours 13/14 maybe but in abundance flying 15/16 hours on the day, nope. But as to Scots being top distance men .... absolutely no doubt, but this actual question has nothing to do questioning that. Yeah different methods suit different people but Hotrod you say you spent 32 years listening to others, so why won't you let us listen to you?????? You can help a lot of novice distance guys like me by allowing us to hear different methods. You listened!
ally mac Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Asha hotrod has won a national into one of the hardest loft locations in scotland,around 580 miles so i know who i would listen too. ;D ;D ;D I think I need some advice from Hotrod cause I think my loft might just be in a slightly worse position LOL
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 I think I need some advice from Hotrod cause I think my loft might just be in a slightly worse position LOL Yes good luck mate,what can i say.To race pigeons into that loft location alone deserves tremendous acclaim well done.Will be looking forward to see you time in the national races,all the best to you. :)
ally mac Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Ally but what a beautiful area to fly to Your right Alan but we probably take it too much for granted.
ally mac Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Yes good luck mate,what can i say.To race pigeons into that loft location alone deserves tremendous acclaim well done.Will be looking forward to see you time in the national races,all the best to you. :) Thanks Vincent, will just have to see how it goes, time will tell.
Guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Posted January 1, 2009 Ally good luck, get the birds that can do the distance and fly the last 60 mile(?) on their own and I'm sure you'll shock many. Hotrod's sound like the stuff but then he wouldn't tell you how he flies them
Delboy Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 Its all about peaking ladies & gentlemen. Getting the pot to boil at the correct time of year. This is achieved with great patience and determination. However, all will fail if you dont have the tools for the job. ( and sometimes fail even when you do have the right birds ) :'( Its a hard game flying the distance races but all the hard work is worth it when you see that bird close its wings about half a mile from the loft and your heart misses one hundred beats. Nothing on the planet can compare to the ecstacy you feel.
Roland Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 sorry boys been out walking dog ,i have been asked how to set birds to fly 500 miles plus many many times , but say the same thing what works for me might not work for you, but if anybody try,s to tell me that scottish birds liberated at say 5.30 am only fly 10/12hrs a day from france say about 500/600 miles prob fly to newcastle/durham area 3 or 4hrs from home are stopping between 3.30 and 5.30pm DONT THINK SO . Say that to any decent national man in scottland and they will laugh at you . Exactly!!!! Sorry to say but Albear is more than a 100% right if possible. Sorry to say, and I am as nissed as a pewt, but a very clever, realist once told me several time times. 'If you want to make aname for yourselve, and be a National winner MOVE to Scotland!!! and it is so very true. Still feeding the tic beans, still rac9ing witha wng and a prayer! Saying the same things that work for me may not work for you! Are we saying that than you fly TURKEYS!!! like the twits athat say a certain strain needs to be fed as such!! Yes I've heard it, golly, THEY are pigeons!! Or are you saying that because a certain name flew them they are NOT! Or as such because a certain fellow races thenm thay are better than PIGEONS! Grow up! THEY are PIGEONS and as such do what is natural to them 'Fly home'!!"!!! Never mind about the codswallop of egoistical stupidity. Yes show off, and try and make the senceless believe. Fact is that the 'Champions' only beat - often *- the also ran by a fraction of a yard!!! Err der iiiieee dum where are we here? Fact is that a [pigeon restonds only to what is natural to it's instinc's and behavior!!! Tell me please where it say that it is differnert!!! If the bird has health, and then the costition, and a love for home wher - beside the right feed for it's propose race, that it doesn't relate to a pigeon??? Of course it does so stop this stupidity that means EGOISTICAL, Puffuffed up sel important takes the honour from what the bird has done and is capable off# P.s. You didn't fly it!! The bird did, and as such the BIRD gets the credir. Sure you did what is fine by it... when it was first hatched and then through the stages. But all you really did, and the bird half a second behind you, was prepare and nurture it's basic instincs!!! Right bird on the day with the right frame of mind and that UYOU have conditioned! Full stop, so none of this mumbo jumbo of how great to are, let your ego see sence!!! The bird was good enouh on the day because it wanted it's home, because it was healthy and conditioned FULL Stop and good emnough to carry on when mant ythoght B***l***ks and went to another loft and and said Stuff you! If from the very strat they don'y home to their nest box, the stuff you. Too Many don'te even see it. let alone able to understand it! So it want's it old nest box where it was born! the rest is history, because if conditioned, and wants it enough, all you have to do is make sure it has the miles under it's wing to be able to get home... faster than the next! Yeah then you are the 'Great' and the bird half a second behind is the also ran! Never mind the Wind, the loft position, you are an also ran. Dare This drunkard ole fool press the send button! Yeah because it is realism and true. Further most race the winner is far behind the better bird! Fact! Niswed so I'll send it without correcting the ... wwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooossssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh gone
Delboy Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 Exactly!!!! Sorry to say but Albear is more than a 100% right if possible. Sorry to say, and I am as nissed as a pewt, but a very clever, realist once told me several time times. 'If you want to make aname for yourselve, and be a National winner MOVE to Scotland!!! and it is so very true. Still feeding the tic beans, still rac9ing witha wng and a prayer! Saying the same things that work for me may not work for you! Are we saying that than you fly TURKEYS!!! like the twits athat say a certain strain needs to be fed as such!! Yes I've heard it, golly, THEY are pigeons!! Or are you saying that because a certain name flew them they are NOT! Or as such because a certain fellow races thenm thay are better than PIGEONS! Grow up! THEY are PIGEONS and as such do what is natural to them 'Fly home'!!"!!! Never mind about the codswallop of egoistical stupidity. Yes show off, and try and make the senceless believe. Fact is that the 'Champions' only beat - often *- the also ran by a fraction of a yard!!! Err der iiiieee dum where are we here? Fact is that a [pigeon restonds only to what is natural to it's instinc's and behavior!!! Tell me please where it say that it is differnert!!! If the bird has health, and then the costition, and a love for home wher - beside the right feed for it's propose race, that it doesn't relate to a pigeon??? Of course it does so stop this stupidity that means EGOISTICAL, Puffuffed up sel important takes the honour from what the bird has done and is capable off# P.s. You didn't fly it!! The bird did, and as such the BIRD gets the credir. Sure you did what is fine by it... when it was first hatched and then through the stages. But all you really did, and the bird half a second behind you, was prepare and nurture it's basic instincs!!! Right bird on the day with the right frame of mind and that UYOU have conditioned! Full stop, so none of this mumbo jumbo of how great to are, let your ego see sence!!! The bird was good enouh on the day because it wanted it's home, because it was healthy and conditioned FULL Stop and good emnough to carry on when mant ythoght B***l***ks and went to another loft and and said Stuff you! If from the very strat they don'y home to their nest box, the stuff you. Too Many don'te even see it. let alone able to understand it! So it want's it old nest box where it was born! the rest is history, because if conditioned, and wants it enough, all you have to do is make sure it has the miles under it's wing to be able to get home... faster than the next! Yeah then you are the 'Great' and the bird half a second behind is the also ran! Never mind the Wind, the loft position, you are an also ran. Dare This drunkard ole fool press the send button! Yeah because it is realism and true. Further most race the winner is far behind the better bird! Fact! Niswed so I'll send it without correcting the ... wwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooossssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh gone Roland, I could drink a gallon of whisky and still spell better than that ;D You have entered the twilight zone mate. ;D
Guest IB Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 spot on IB how many have you had to time in 15/16 hrs on day@ ,just to let asha know I've never timed a day bird. Had one on second morning in first Lanarkshire Fed Channel race a long time ago, when I was a teenager. I hope to be at my first National Channel races this year - so I could not and did not post advice on how to prepare pigeons for these events. What I did post was a clear understanding of the standard my birds will need to meet to be up there amongst the leaders. I'll be following the thread myself (and other future ones like it) to get ideas on preparing my own candidates.
Roland Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 But Delboy, Maidmarrion is welsh and I need to out do him lol. But the reality is true and factual as this ole fool sees it!
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