IVAMECTINÂ Â Â Â MOXIDECTIN

[Guest]

is moxidectin easily available for pigeons legally, and is it an australian product brought in to this country for cattle and such originally, I tried to get some off my local vet and he said it is not supplied here ? so whats the correct story ?

 

Think you'll find moxidectin is the active ingredient, rather than the name of the market brand.

 

It is also shown as a Prescription Only Medicine.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Think you'll find moxidectin is the active ingredient, rather than the name of the market brand.

 

It is also shown as a Prescription Only Medicine.

 

and what is the market name Bruno ?

[Roland]

Have to agree with Sammy ...

[Guest]

 

and what is the market name Bruno ?

 

Only one I turned up was Scatt, which is maybe US.

[Pompey Mick]

'Moxidectin' is produced by the Australian Pigeon Company for use on pigeons & cage birds  for worming, it also eradicates external parasites.

 

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

[jimmy white]

   pro-heart 6  one name of moxidectin,,,,,,,,i thought it was a desease at first  ;D ;D ;D,,,,hes down with the moxedectins ;D

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

pm tammy he is the expert on its use  

 

aye and we know what u r an expert in dont we

[jimmy white]

now now boys,,no arguing  ;D ;D take a spoon full of moxidectin each ,,,and lets see you run ;D ;D ;D ;D

[sherlock]

now now boys,,no arguing  ;D ;D take a spoon full of moxidectin each ,,,and lets see you run ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Ah, so it is a laxative : : :

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Ah, so it is a laxative : : :

 

so u worked that out for urself did u

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Anybody explain the difference between the two products Ivamectin and Moxidectin?

[Guest]

"a single moxidectin treatment produces ‘slow’ death of adult worms in girds and dogs, and sterilization of worms in cattle;

 

compared to ivermectin, moxidectin has a considerably longer half life in plasma - 20 days compared to 2 days - allowing for the possibility of either less frequent treatment, or ‘higher efficacy’ with similar frequency of treatment, compared to ivermectin;

 

it is effective in animal worm infections that are resistant to ivermectin.

Moxidectin is a fermentation product from Streptomyces cyaneogriseus spp noncyanogenus. Chemically it is related to other wormers – the avermectins – but instead of a disaccharide side chain it has unique methoxine- and dimethylbutenyl-side chains."

 

They are basically related chemicals from Streptomyces bacteria, but some studies reckon moxidectin is safer than ivermectin, and the one above reckons moxidectin remains active in the body 10 times longer than ivermectin, 20 days -vs- 2 days and that kinda raises questions on the claim that one dose of ivermectin keeps a pigeon pest-free for a year??

 

 

[peterpau]

Ivermectin every six weeks through racing and moult for me.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

"a single moxidectin treatment produces ‘slow’ death of adult worms in girds and dogs, and sterilization of worms in cattle;

 

compared to ivermectin, moxidectin has a considerably longer half life in plasma - 20 days compared to 2 days - allowing for the possibility of either less frequent treatment, or ‘higher efficacy’ with similar frequency of treatment, compared to ivermectin;

 

it is effective in animal worm infections that are resistant to ivermectin.

 

Moxidectin is a fermentation product from Streptomyces cyaneogriseus spp noncyanogenus. Chemically it is related to other wormers – the avermectins – but instead of a disaccharide side chain it has unique methoxine- and dimethylbutenyl-side chains."

 

They are basically related chemicals from Streptomyces bacteria, but some studies reckon moxidectin is safer than ivermectin, and the one above reckons moxidectin remains active in the body 10 times longer than ivermectin, 20 days -vs- 2 days and that kinda raises questions on the claim that one dose of ivermectin keeps a pigeon pest-free for a year??

 

 

CHEERS BRUNO

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Ivermectin every six weeks through racing and moult for me.

 

was under the immmpression you were not meant to use wormers during the moult ? Harkers new Harka -mectin,( ivermectin ) specifically tells u to avoid using it during the moult

[peterpau]

Vets advice mate

[sapper756]

Anybody explain the difference between the two products Ivamectin and Moxidectin?

 

Spelt differently ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Chatrace]

Do you just worm on a schedule or do you check the dropping with a microscope. I would hope you wouldn't have to worm every 6 weeks,maybe every 6 months if that even

[jimmy white]

even if you dont have a microscope its cheaper to have their droppings tested than pay for" cure" that is going to tear their guts out maybe unnecessary

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Do you just worm on a schedule or do you check the dropping with a microscope. I would hope you wouldn't have to worm every 6 weeks,maybe every 6 months if that even

 

where does the bit about wormoing every 6 weeks come from ? i am now convinced birds need wormed twice a year (after getting some great advice as to why) especially young birds, and has to be with something that kills tapeworms as well because a lot only kill roundworm and hairworm, moxidectin plus kills them all, as does harkers new harka mectin.

[Guest]

 

where does the bit about wormoing every 6 weeks come from ? i am now convinced birds need wormed twice a year (after getting some great advice as to why) especially young birds, and has to be with something that kills tapeworms as well because a lot only kill roundworm and hairworm, moxidectin plus kills them all, as does harkers new harka mectin.

 

Think Chatrace's 6 weeks comes from peterpau's post.

 

Take your point about different worm speciies; the moxidectin that I looked at was for horses, cattle and dogs/cats: the range of species only included one 'pigeon' worm that I recognised - the strongyle, which I don't think is all that common in Northern Hemisphere.

 

It is my understanding that if you treat for worms which are non-existant in the bird, you run the risk of damaging the bird's gut lining.

 

My birds have never been wormed since starting up in 2002. Early years I used a pigeon tea which had three plants that were known to move them on. After that I used garlic in the water twice a week, garlic moves ascarids, the most common pigeon worm.

 

This year, panicked and sent off a testing kit containing droppings from the whole loft and throat swab from certain OBs and all YBs. 'All' that came back was a touch of cocci, and a touch of respiratory - everything else clear or normal. No worms, or worm eggs.

 

Have posted before that to my mind it is inconceivable that Nature did not give a bird that picks about the ground as much as pigeon does, a natural defence against picking up worm eggs, and if that fails and they hatch in the gut, a natural way of flushing adult & juvenile worms. May be co-incidence but a post last year on diatomic earth 'slicing' worms to mincemeat rang a bell with me that this may be the natural defence that I was looking for, i.e. 'worming' is possibly another function of the bird's grit, and an explanation why it seems to picking up so much grit outside.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Think Chatrace's 6 weeks comes from peterpau's post.

 

Take your point about different worm speciies; the moxidectin that I looked at was for horses, cattle and dogs/cats: the range of species only included one 'pigeon' worm that I recognised - the strongyle, which I don't think is all that common in Northern Hemisphere.

 

It is my understanding that if you treat for worms which are non-existant in the bird, you run the risk of damaging the bird's gut lining.

 

My birds have never been wormed since starting up in 2002. Early years I used a pigeon tea which had three plants that were known to move them on. After that I used garlic in the water twice a week, garlic moves ascarids, the most common pigeon worm.

 

This year, panicked and sent off a testing kit containing droppings from the whole loft and throat swab from certain OBs and all YBs. 'All' that came back was a touch of cocci, and a touch of respiratory - everything else clear or normal. No worms, or worm eggs.

 

Have posted before that to my mind it is inconceivable that Nature did not give a bird that picks about the ground as much as pigeon does, a natural defence against picking up worm eggs, and if that fails and they hatch in the gut, a natural way of flushing adult & juvenile worms. May be co-incidence but a post last year on diatomic earth 'slicing' worms to mincemeat rang a bell with me that this may be the natural defence that I was looking for, i.e. 'worming' is possibly another function of the bird's grit, and an explanation why it seems to picking up so much grit outside.

 

thats a very interesting reply bruno, worth remembering as well what u say about the gut lining if no worms are present

[Guest]

This is a veterinarian's analysis of a study on pigeons given / not given certain classes of wormer. I think its a classic - look at the results for the birds that were given nothing and left alone to sort it all out for themselves.  

 

The commonly used worming drugs Fenbendazole and Albendazole are toxic to pigeons.

 

"410 pigeons of various species at San Diego Zoo and San Diego Wild Animal Park were examined alive or dead. All birds were healthy at the start point, and kept during a period of 45 days because of quarantine, relocation, or presale health check. The symptoms looked for were weight change, leukopoenia (too few white blood cells), bone marrow changes (less or more bone marrow than normal), small intestinal changes (injuries to the inner lining of the intestines, causing diarrhoea and mal-absorption) and survival. The results are as follows:

 

Treatment… ....  Weight....... L'poenia… Bone Marrow … Intestinal…....Survival

None…………….....  Up 5%.........12%........33% better…… .All normal…....92%

Albendazole....….Down 13%....100%......83% worse……..78% injured....67%

Fenbendazole low…Down 8%.. .83%......78% worse……..92% injured..   75%

Fenbendazole high.Down 19%..100%... 30% worse……..50% injured..   67%

      

 

What seems obvious is that both the drugs are disadvantageous to the pigeons. In all cases the pigeons loose weight after treatment. Also, most pigeons develop leukopoenia. The fewer white blood cells in the medicated pigeons cause them to be more susceptible to bacteria and other microbial intruders. This might explain why the survival rate of the treated pigeons is lower then the untreated (controls). Most pigeons that died suffered from an infection. The bone marrow is involved in the production of blood cells, and in the treated birds production was suppressed. Furthermore, the majority of the birds suffer varying degrees of injury to the intestines, probably caused by these drugs. So, why should we give the pigeons one of these drugs?

 

This research shows very strongly that these drugs must never be used unless they are absolutely needed.

 

If you think the birds have worms, the droppings must be tested by a vet to confirm the diagnosis. Test the droppings from each single pigeon, and only treat those birds found having worm eggs. If intestinal worm infection is diagnosed on the loft, cleaning is very important to get rid of worm eggs. If you want to give any medication, any remedy containing albendazole ( like "Valbazen") and fenbendazole (like "Panacur") should be avoided. Because of chemical similarity, it is likely that also flubendazole (like "Flunebol"), is harmful to pigeons.

 

Ivermectine (IVOMEC) might be a better alternative for pigeons. I have used this type of antihelmintic in my veterinary practice for 12 years and never seen adverse effects. However in-depth investigations on possible negative effects on pigeons are lacking for ivermectine and related drugs. Treatment should therefore be avoided unless a diagnosis has been confirmed by the vet.

 

The study referred to concerns many species of wild pigeons, but it is very likely that fenbendazole and albendazole will also harm racing pigeons at least as much. Especially in periods of stress such drugs can be very harmful. Actually, there are reasons to believe that such drugs can trigger many diseases like trichomoniasis, coccidiosis, adenovirus and salmonellosis.

 

More generally, the use of any drug should be limited. Many of the more successful lofts do not use drugs at all, unless a serious contagious disease is diagnosed by the vet. Simply because drugs generally do more harm than good on healthy pigeons. "

 

 

 

[Guest]

YIR A WEALTH OF INFO BRUNO LAD ,SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS NOT TO GIVE THEM ANYTHING AT ALL ,BEEN HARPING ON ABOUT THIS FOR AWHILE WHEN, NATURE DESIGNED ALL CRATURES I,DESIGNED THEM WITH AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO HELP FIGHT OF MOST DISEASES ETC AND THE ONES THAT CANNOT FIGHT IT OFF JUST DIE ,OUT IN THE WILD THEY DO ANYWAYS ,BUT IN CAPTIVITAY THE ARE GIVEN ALL SORTS, NO TO WARD OF ANY NASTIES, BUT TO TRY AND MAKE THEM HEALTHIER ,AND ALL THE TIME THIS INTERFERES WITH THE IMMUNE SYSTEM RENDERING IT WEAK  ;D ;D ;DKEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BRUNO LAD ENJOY YA POSTS  ;D ;D ;D

[Guest TAMMY_1]

It IS ACTUALLY £4  CHEAPER TO GET A BOTTLE OF MOXIDECTIN SENT FROM AUSTRALIA FROM THE AUSTRALIAN PIGEON COMPANY THAN IT IS TO GET IT SUPPLIED FROM THEIR AGENTS IN THE UK. SOMETHING FAR WRONG HERE, WHO IS RIPPING WHO OFF?