Natural Yogurt

[Guest briancol]

if you add yogurt to corn then leave to dry onto it do the microbes in it not die because its dried out.

also could you not add the yogurt to drinking water.

[van Roberts]

yes ive added yogurt to the drinking water many times couple of deserts spoons to a drinker keeps them about right inside

[Guest briancol]

thank you for your reply.

[vanreets]

yes ive added yogurt to the drinking water many times couple of deserts spoons to a drinker keeps them about right inside

 

mm maybe i will try it

[greenlands]

You will find by adding yoghurt to the drinking water ,after a while the youghurt will settle to the bottom of the drinker.

[kenny birdman]

any tips on y b sickness

[Guest IB]

if you add yogurt to corn then leave to dry onto it do the microbes in it not die because its dried out.

also could you not add the yogurt to drinking water.

 

Would agree with you, drying out will kill anything. When I used it, it was spooned fresh onto feed and put down to birds within 10 minutes. While dead bacteria don't grow, and certainly won't colonise the gut, I understand they do have some sort of beneficial affect, the reason / how it works isn't known.

 

Not sure that giving via the drinker is best way. Even my current probiotic goes on their food.

 

 

 

 

[white logan]

any tips on y b sickness

 

yeh , see a vet

[distancer]

Only time I had young bird sickness was when they had been in the racing pannier. Clean loft, top corn,clean water etc.

[Guest]

 

yeh , see a vet

SEE A VET ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-/

 

 

[vanreets]

SEE A VET ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-/

 

 

see a vet ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest Owen]

I am not convinced that bovine products are all that useful for pigeons. We are told that we should encourage good bacteria to colonise the gut. I struggle with this idea, because anything that gets to the gut has to pass through the stomach which is full of very strong acid. I can see how bovine products could be of nutritional value but I can not see how they will be able to carry bacteria through that acid.

In the case of products like cider vinegar I think that it is possible that the acid, in the vinegar, could set up an acid environment in the gut. Therefore creating the right conditions for certain bacteria to grow there. This is because the acid content of the vinegar could not be digested or affected greatly by the stomach acid. In fact, I would go as far as to say that a lot of the probiotic products on sale are a waste of money. Just the same as for people. I know loads of people who have tried these things but hardly anyone stick to it because it does nothing to help. The dietry items that most affect the contents of the gut are the food items we feed. Again, just as it is for humans. These days the examination of human poo is a big thing with the health experts. And to a man (or woman) they all say that you must regulate your bowel health with the diet you eat. I see no reason to expect pigeons to be any differant.

[Guest briancol]

I am not convinced that bovine products are all that useful for pigeons. We are told that we should encourage good bacteria to colonise the gut. I struggle with this idea, because anything that gets to the gut has to pass through the stomach which is full of very strong acid. I can see how bovine products could be of nutritional value but I can not see how they will be able to carry bacteria through that acid.

In the case of products like cider vinegar I think that it is possible that the acid, in the vinegar, could set up an acid environment in the gut. Therefore creating the right conditions for certain bacteria to grow there. This is because the acid content of the vinegar could not be digested or affected greatly by the stomach acid. In fact, I would go as far as to say that a lot of the probiotic products on sale are a waste of money. Just the same as for people. I know loads of people who have tried these things but hardly anyone stick to it because it does nothing to help. The dietry items that most affect the contents of the gut are the food items we feed. Again, just as it is for humans. These days the examination of human poo is a big thing with the health experts. And to a man (or woman) they all say that you must regulate your bowel health with the diet you eat. I see no reason to expect pigeons to be any differant.

 

sound sensible enough.

 

[Guest briancol]

Only time I had young bird sickness was when they had been in the racing pannier. Clean loft, top corn,clean water etc.

 

what would you consider as top corn,as opposed bottom corn.

 

[Tony C]

I mix Natural Yogurt in their drinking water, the water I use is bottled water (lid taken of and let stand for 24 hours before use).

 

[distancer]

I only ever use Versele Laga products.

[Roland]

if you add yogurt to corn then leave to dry onto it do the microbes in it not die because its dried out.

also could you not add the yogurt to drinking water.

 

If it's live yogurt then yes.... most has died before shelf life and before leaving the shop / supermarket. So then obviously no good. As for drinking water why  :-/ it's dead any way so the water won't harm it. Still won't do any good though   ;D

If it's a dead yogurt then it's can be of any use. If livefine, it is for humans and useless for pigeons. It is no more thn a Fancier 'Feel Good / Steal a March factor.

Flightpath and suh obviously is better ad is for pigeons.

[Guest briancol]

 

If it's live yogurt then yes.... most has died before shelf life and before leaving the shop / supermarket. So then obviously no good. As for drinking water why  :-/ it's dead any way so the water won't harm it. Still won't do any good though   ;D

If it's a dead yogurt then it's can be of any use. If livefine, it is for humans and useless for pigeons. It is no more thn a Fancier 'Feel Good / Steal a March factor.

Flightpath and suh obviously is better ad is for pigeons.

 

So there you are now,we have been told.

 

[Guest Owen]

I have thought a lot about the corn we feed to the birds. I like to feed the best corn. Versa Laga, Beyers and Bosmolen. It looks good and very clean. Clean, because I know that anywhere that grain is stored you will always have rats and mice. Small birds can also be a problem. So I think it is important to use corn that is not contaminated. Paratyphoid is a big problem these days, and I am convinced if has been caused by rodents soiling the grain. For me, that is reason enough for not using farm grain.

However, I am sure that the grain we buy from even the best suppliers is deficient in a variety of nutrients. Plus, of course, all grain produced commercially is treated with chemical sprays. Years ago land was treated with animal dung and lime to improve fertility. And the fertility had to built up over a long period. There was no really effective way to counteract the weeds that grew in all arable fields.

But the grain produced in that way was rich in the nutients that is essential for health.

These days chemical fertilisers are essential to produce the yields that are required for the Producers profitablity. I think that the land is then depleted of it's natural elements and passes on it's deficiencies to the grain produced in that way.

So if I am right, I am feeding clean corn that is very depleted in the health giving properties that our stock needs to reach that sparkling form we are all looking for. Is this why we seem to get the huge losses and the high level of illnesses?

I flew pigeons in the sixties. We never treated them for diseases, or had young bird sickness. And most Clubs would have a 12 bird limit because you would not need to race any more. Pigeons were lost, but very few indeed.

Is it the poor quality of feed that is causing us these problems?

[Guest briancol]

ay your right about birds in the sixties, i kept pigeons then as well,(im just back into them after a 32 year break) but all i remember treating them for was one eye cold & the odd one going light but that was it. and i was just in my late teens then.in my late 50's now.

but you have to buy corn on trust,who knows how its been stored prior to being 'bagged' up.

why pay fancy prices for corn just because it has a particular name or a certain reputation, ie,"all the winners use this stuff".

[Tony C]

 

If it's live yogurt then yes.... most has died before shelf life and before leaving the shop / supermarket. So then obviously no good. As for drinking water why  :-/ it's dead any way so the water won't harm it. Still won't do any good though   ;D

If it's a dead yogurt then it's can be of any use. If livefine, it is for humans and useless for pigeons. It is no more thn a Fancier 'Feel Good / Steal a March factor.

Flightpath and suh obviously is better ad is for pigeons.

 

European studies found the same kind of results. Astro BioBest yogurt started with the most - 794 million live bacterial cultures per gram (175 grams per container or 139 billion per container). But near the end of shelf life, almost two-thirds had died (794 to 260 million per gram or falling from 139 to 50 billion per container). Organic Meadow (100 to 6 million per gram) and Danone (180 to 120 million per gram or 32 to 21 billion per container) stayed above the million mark on each test. Liberty yogurt fared the worst, starting off low at just 118,000 live bacterial cultures per gram — and dropping to just 4,000 after two weeks.

[Guest]

I am not convinced that bovine products are all that useful for pigeons. We are told that we should encourage good bacteria to colonise the gut. I struggle with this idea, because anything that gets to the gut has to pass through the stomach which is full of very strong acid. I can see how bovine products could be of nutritional value but I can not see how they will be able to carry bacteria through that acid.

You have no need to worry and can be condident certain protiens and chemical agents including bacteria are designed to resist the acidic effect of the stomach and quite easily pass through, if it wasn't the case no medicines would work, no headache tablets would work, no anti-biotics and so on, because according to your concerns they would not get passed the gut?   Fortunately your fears are unfounded and many products, certainly bovine which are designed to pass through two sets of stomach have every chance of working.  Your theory of acid creating the 'right' enviorenment is wrong, acid = bad enviorenment, cider vinegar.   The method behind the madness of using cider vinegar as a treatment for YBS is because bacteria (possibly the one that holds the key for YBS) would not survive the flushing effect the vinegar has whilst going through the digestive tract because of its acidity.

 

Pro-biotics are non digestible and when passing through the sytem stimulating the good bacteria that exist in every living organism which then go on to help fight the bad guys like the one that causes YBS.  I've made it simple, its a lot more complicated than that but no need to get technical.    Pro biotics including those contained in yoghurt work its as simple as that, and certainly worth a try.  

 

 

[Guest slugmonkey]

I have had excellent luck with probiotics and wouldnt cosider going without some type any more

[Guest]

I have had excellent luck with probiotics and wouldnt cosider going without some type any more

Its not luck slugmonkey, its good management and support to the already proven theory that pro-biotics work.  

 

 

[Guest slugmonkey]

Lucky to have found them !!!