Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I do read now and again Paul and still can't find any scientific facts like you say, that vet your on about likes his meds don't he. :o the fact is that wether he uses medication or not ...facts are that he is a leading pigeon vet and they are the ones with this knowledge of the labs. you nor me can say they are wrong as we are not qualified to say any other. read up anywhere on the net and it will tell you the same as i have ..there are two types of adeno virus in pigeons..type 1 and type 2..i have not gone on findings from myself as im not qualified to do so.. and i wouldnt be so reckless to give out advice that i have not read up on and reserched.the vets receive research from biologists ,their knowledge from and reports that is stated in journals. i leave it up to anyone who can prove that im wrong about there being two strains of adeno virus found in pigeons. i will gladly accept i was wrong...but if im wrong then there are a number of top PIGEON vets that are too! adeno virus is found in humans too!...also found in several different animals. if anyone requires info ..type in adeno virus into your search engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Wim Peters gives a good 'overview' of YBS in pages 266/277 of his book Fit to Win2. I find discissuions such as the one on this thread are good for making me 'refresh' what I think I know about the diseases under discussion. Quite topical to recent posts here is what he has to say about known facts, para 5, page 268:- "The role of the increased use of medicines, particularly antibiotics, play in reducing the natural immunity of the youngsters must not be forgotten. This process begins with medications supplied to the stock birds. Should the parent stock be kept as germ-free as possible, they themselves would not acquire immunity against normally occurring germs and would not be able to pass on comprehensive immunity to their young via the egg yolk or crop milk." I think that ties in well with claims on the forum that we try to keep our pigeons 'too' clean. On page 270 he goes on to warn:- "pigeons recovered from the symptoms of YBS are not yet fully recovered from the effects of the disease ... and are not ready to return to training for 3/4 weeks." I've fallen for that one myself. During 2009 YBs , when I kept all my birds back from one race, because one or two started vomiting the Monday follwing their last race, I did so because I believed that to be the general advice, which I have questioned myself on occasions, thinking it to be too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 IB there are a lot of problems with the way medicines and drugs are used. Water suspended drugs in cold weather are asking for trouble. If you use the recommended doseage you are sure to underdose. I firmly believe that there are certain illnesses we can not tolerate at all. Worms being the most important. But there is a big problem these days because the Vets do not carry out the follow up checks to make sure that the worms have been eliminated. The result of which is the risk of building up the imunity in the worms. I am sure that I am seeing drug resistant hair worm already. I think it will get worse. The situation with YBS is much the same except it is at a more advanced stage in terms of imunity. The problem is that if a drug resistant bug breeds it will pass it's imunity on to it's offspring. This, I am sure, is what happens in the hospitals as well as the pigeon lofts. Scientists have recently found that the use of distinfectants are causing a build up of imunity in bugs. The reason is, that it is impossible to ensure that the distinfectant is used at it's recommended strength everywhere. So where the solution is weak the bugs can benefit by becoming used to the distinfectant at low concentrations and eventually they are imune from the distinfectants at the recommended concentrations. The business of passing on the drug imune bugs from parent to offspring through the egg yolk is probably right. But you and I, as practical Fanciers, must come up with practical solutions. So, as I previously stated, I will follow the course of eliminating the birds who show signs of these diseases. But I am also convinced that there are ways we can help the birds build up imunity within their environment. I am also convinced that a lot of these so call probiotics are not working as they should.I notice that the eminant Fancier, Ad Schaerlackens recommends that pigeons are not kept too clean and that they must have exposure to their dung, providing that it is dry. I have certainly reduced my YBS problem down to almost insignificat levels by my strategy. So I will continue to eliminate the weak and encourage a healthy environment with dry droppings and plenty of mineral based supplements available fresh every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jargre- Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Wim Peters gives a good 'overview' of YBS in pages 266/277 of his book Fit to Win2. I find discissuions such as the one on this thread are good for making me 'refresh' what I think I know about the diseases under discussion. Quite topical to recent posts here is what he has to say about known facts, para 5, page 268:- .Nice attempt at Harvard referencing there.. ;D There are NO FACTS on YBS, the day there is the scientist or Vet or company they work for is going to be a very wealthy man. FACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark proctor Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Nice attempt at Harvard referencing there.. ;D There are NO FACTS on YBS, the day there is the scientist or Vet or company they work for is going to be a very wealthy man. FACT. i agree m8,,and ile be the first one to buy the product that stops ybs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i dont think anywhere on this thread that anyone has stated there is a cure for this illness, but there are steps to take to try and prevent it. i didnt suffer with ybs in 2009..different to other years i vaccinated not long after parting over the youngsters. wether this was a factor i dont know. but i would say that this illness does raise its ugly head soon as racing starts in many lofts...the height of the illness being around june-july. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i agree m8,,and ile be the first one to buy the product that stops ybs.... There is no doubt that prevention is the answer rather than a cure. There are products which assist and none of these are antibiotics. It is possible to block a virus. I am also of the impression that Nyfuramycin is a combination of antibiotics. That makes it a very powerful drug. I am not sure what the position is now but I do know that it was, at one time, illegal to sell this in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 There is no doubt that prevention is the answer rather than a cure. There are products which assist and none of these are antibiotics. It is possible to block a virus. I am also of the impression that Nyfuramycin is a combination of antibiotics. That makes it a very powerful drug. I am not sure what the position is now but I do know that it was, at one time, illegal to sell this in this country. i think it still is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 it is but u can get it under the counter the last time i went to belguim /holland i asked rohnfreid about it and they ran a mile in the dutch show so that says something dnt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark proctor Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i have tried every thing there is on this earth to try and prevent ybs over the last 11 years and no chance,,,11 years,,,11 ybs,, :( :( one year i even had a year of the darky and tried them on natural incase it was the darky,,still got it,,,theres one thing i havent tried yet and that what strapper as just put on,,,injecting them at a early age,,,i dont wont to start arguing over this thread ,,,we are all different in our own ways,,what works for bill might not work for benn....all the best to who ever has masterd this horrible thing....mark... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 didnt even no you could get the injection where can you get it and what is it called mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark proctor Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 didnt even no you could get the injection where can you get it and what is it called mark just the normal one we give our birds every year m8,,,i think,,,lol... :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ strapper which one do you use m8...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 hes off line i will pm him and find out cheers mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Nice attempt at Harvard referencing there.. ;D There are NO FACTS on YBS, the day there is the scientist or Vet or company they work for is going to be a very wealthy man. FACT. The point of giving where you get the information from is so that others can go and read what has been said, hopefully to learn more. Had you bothered to go there to see what was being said, you would have known that what you have posted as a purported FACT is nothing of the sort. The part I quoted was about seperating speculation from known facts on the disease. There are facts known about YBS, and no-one can dispute his FACT No1 - food retention is always one of the first signs. I've also posted up several times a piece of research on an outbreak of YBS affecting 9? lofts in Northern Ireland in 2007. They reported fanciers labelled different illnesses as YBS. They also reported they'd been 'told' to expect to find e coli and salmonella. They didn't find salmonella, and ecoli was present in just one bird. So what they did find and publish are quite clearly FACTS on YBS, sperated out from the speculation that surrounds it in the fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark proctor Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 hes off line i will pm him and find out cheers mark ok m8.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 just the normal one we give our birds every year m8,,,i think,,,lol... :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ strapper which one do you use m8...? the pmv one mark i meant...ive read up on a belgium fanciers view on ybs. he had been experimenting on different idea,s for over 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 theres better stuff out there than nifuramycin. had abit of bother 2 year ago with a pair in stock loft had dropping test and advised treat with ni-mycin then a canker treatment did the trick never used it since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i thought that what it was strapper never hered of a ybs jab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i think its hit and miss who gets it,in my club adam , only 2 of us didnt get it. i do know that belgamco (beligica)seemed to be very affective when it struck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 yea a mate of mine used it but they say if you use a product once and u get it again to use something differant is this true if so could you name 3 products which are good to use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 yea a mate of mine used it but they say if you use a product once and u get it again to use something differant is this true if so could you name 3 products which are good to use there are a number of different products but hopefully you wont need more than one a season. where its recommended to use different products each time..if you only get it once a season then use the same product. if like canker there is a chance of more than one infection in one season then use 2-3 different products. using the right dosage ,should keep your birds healthy,just a bit of common sense and an open mind . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam owen Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 ok mate ill stick with belgamco im going to holland and belguim this year the last time i went i had some great products and cheeper van da sluis product i had was really good it was a 4 in 1 product really good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 ok mate ill stick with belgamco im going to holland and belguim this year the last time i went i had some great products and cheeper van da sluis product i had was really good it was a 4 in 1 product really good medical items in the uk are sometimes 3 times the price it is abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 medical items in the uk are sometimes 3 times the price it is abroad. Everything in rip off Britain is more expensive than abroad and I don't just mean pigeon related items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark proctor Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 the pmv one mark i meant...ive read up on a belgium fanciers view on ybs. he had been experimenting on different idea,s for over 5 years. cheers strapper m8,,,that sounds very interesting to me m8,,,thanks... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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