parastop

[adam owen]

lmao ;D ;D

[holmsidelofts]

wats the diff in live to dead

 

The live vaccine as the word suggests is a live form of vaccine that has been weakened with formaldehyde to a point that its safe to inject into the pigeon, the pigeons immune system will responded to this weakened bacteria by producing antibodies to the bacteria thus giving the bird protection. the dead vaccine again as the name suggests is the bacteria that has been killed, the immune system can sometimes be slow to react to the dead vaccine thats why you have to inject them twice within 4 weeks of the first injection this makes sure that the immune system has adequately responded to the dead bacteria.

In the uk the only licensed vaccine is the dead columbovac vaccine, you can get the live vaccine ( i have used the chivita s live vaccine, but that had to come from a vet.).

There is lots of controversy over salmonella vaccine as the vaccine targets the strain Salmonella spp. ser. Typhimurium variant Copenhagen this is one of many 100's of strains of salmonella, this type is the one seen in pigeons, that doesnt mean pigeons cant contract one of the other strains of salmonella, so the argument is what good is a vaccine that only protects from one type of salmonella? the answer is this all other strains of salmonella are related to each other, this means if the bird contracts another form of salmonella when they are vaccinated the immune system can cope with tackling it as it already has made similar antibodies to the bacteria in the vaccine thus vastly reducing the impact of catching it.

Thats the reason why you should vaccinate. treating with antibiotics like baytril or parastop will only clean out whats in the bird it gives them no protection the next time they come into contact with another infected bird.

 

Jas

[REDCHEQHEN]

How can you get a live vaccine from a vet if it's not approved by DEFRA?

[holmsidelofts]

How can you get a live vaccine from a vet if it's not approved by DEFRA?

Its who you know

 

 

[alex young]

only use it if you have salmonella/paratyphoid problems

you would stop a headache next week by taking a tablet tonight  

Think this analogy is off the mark, if your unsure that your birds have salmonella/paratyphoid why not treat to be certain, it will do no harm if you use correct dosage. I have done so for many years without any problems, at present I use Sulphatrim but 20 years ago I used Florazolidone.

 

[REDCHEQHEN]

Its who you know

 

 

My point is that they're breaking the law - and its bad enough when fanciers do it underhand - its a darn sight worse when they're getting help from professionals to do it

 

Live vaccine can transfer to unvaccinated birds in the basket through their droppings

[holmsidelofts]

 

My point is that they're breaking the law - and its bad enough when fanciers do it underhand - its a darn sight worse when they're getting help from professionals to do it

 

Live vaccine can transfer to unvaccinated birds in the basket through their droppings

 

thats not true it doesnt work like that. theres plenty of scientific research to back that up also. what you have to remember there are lots of unlicensed products for sale over here, parastop is one of them.

 

[adam owen]

if parastop is unlicened how can u buy it so easy then??? so which is the best to use live or dead????

[kev43]

thats wat a few people have said thats why im a bit do i dnt i

 

y try and fix summit thats not broken ???????????????????????????????????

[Guest j.bamling]

Think this analogy is off the mark, if your unsure that your birds have salmonella/paratyphoid why not treat to be certain, it will do no harm if you use correct dosage. I have done so for many years without any problems, at present I use Sulphatrim but 20 years ago I used Florazolidone.

 

thats up to you if you want to blind treat but in my opinion you only want to give antibiotics if you have trouble not blind treating on the off chance you have something

You go to the doctors and say to him i think i have something does the doctor go and blind treat you with antibiotics i dont think so

but if thats what you want to do its upto you All roads lead to Rome as they say  

[Guest frank dooman]

 

thats up to you if you want to blind treat but in my opinion you only want to give antibiotics if you have trouble not blind treating on the off chance you have something

You go to the doctors and say to him i think i have something does the doctor go and blind treat you with antibiotics i dont think so

but if thats what you want to do its upto you All roads lead to Rome as they say  

 

in the same vain jimmy did we wait till every one had measels no we vacinate as a  precaution is that blind treating remember we very rearly hear of it now and thats the same for many ailments of the past  JMO

[Guest j.bamling]

 

in the same vain jimmy did we wait till every one had measels no we vacinate as a  precaution is that blind treating remember we very rearly hear of it now and thats the same for many ailments of the past  JMO

 

In an earlier post i already said i am in agreement with vaccinating as this is proven but giving them antibiotics today will not stop them getting something a week or a month down the line !! Vacination would though   thats why i said only treat with antibiotics if you have a problem

[adam owen]

have they got be a certain age to be jabbed with it

[Guest frank dooman]

 

In an earlier post i already said i am in agreement with vaccinating as this is proven but giving them antibiotics today will not stop them getting something a week or a month down the line !! Vacination would though  

 

iam not saying that vaccination is the ans. jimmy was only useing it as an example , as i dont know too much about the vaccination , but yes if i thought my birds had been in contact with para say in the basket i would use antibiotics any thing that prevents them catching it in the 1st place is ok on my books but as you say every one to their own

[pigeonscout]

you may want to read this http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152

[just ask me]

you may want to read this http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152

 

 

The Veterinary Record, Vol 128, Issue 7, 152-153

Copyright © 1991 by British Veterinary Association

 

taken from the above link is this the year that this was bought out  :-/

[Guest j.bamling]

you may want to read this http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152

 

If you read the top corner you will see that was a publication in 1991

I am afraid times has changed since then vaccines and medications has inproved a lot since then !!!

[holmsidelofts]

you may want to read this http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152

 

Dont you think the link is wearing a bit thin now pigeon scout.

 

This has been discussed many times before:

 

heres the transcript to the link:

The Veterinary Record, Vol 128, Issue 7, 152-153

Copyright © 1991 by British Veterinary Association

 

Papers & Articles

 

Protective effects of vaccines against experimental salmonellosis in racing pigeons

 

E Uyttebroek, LA Devriese, D Gevaert, R Ducatelle, J Nelis, and F Haesebrouck

Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium.

 

Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis.

 

Its an outdated article published in 1991, a lot changes in 20 years mate. stop posting this information as it misleads others.

 

 

 

[just ask me]

 

If you read the top corner you will see that was a publication in 1991

I am afraid times has changed since then vaccines and medications has inproved a lot since then !!!

 

exactly what i was pointing out  

[pigeonscout]

 

If you read the top corner you will see that was a publication in 1991

I am afraid times has changed since then vaccines and medications has inproved a lot since then !!!

 

It is the same today as it was then nothing has changed called or email any of the makers and ask them as I have done and you will find that findings in that report still stands.

[holmsidelofts]

 

exactly what i was pointing out  

 

Sorry mate never saw your response before posting  ;D, im glad others are starting to see that to.

My question is why would some of the best flyers in the world swear by vaccinating against salmonella, but to name a few, geoff kirkland, frank tasker, jos thone.

 

Plus the countless number of experienced pigeon vets.

 

Jas

[holmsidelofts]

 

It is the same today as it was then nothing has changed called or email any of the makers and ask them as I have done and you will find that findings in that report still stands.

 

If you stand by this them name the people you have spoken with and we will pout this to rest once and for all by speaking with them again.

[pigeonscout]

 

If you stand by this them name the people you have spoken with and we will pout this to rest once and for all by speaking with them again.

 

http://pigeonclinics.com/default.asp?ContentId=1745&LanguageId=44&MainProductId=99&st=1&pt=Paratyphoid+vaccine

 

Just as the report says it will not stop them from getting it,  just help with the symptoms if they get it.

 

Indication: For active immunisation by racing pigeons against symptoms caused by Salmonella Typhimurium.

 

Bytril on the other hand will cure paea when they get it so what is the point?

[Guest j.bamling]

I dont know what your were reading but i read were its designed to give Immunity to the pigeons what are vaccinated with the vaccine

It says nothing about will only help with the symptoms if the have the diesese ???

[pigeonscout]

I dont know what your were reading but i read were its designed to give Immunity to the pigeons what are vaccinated with the vaccine

It says nothing about will only help with the symptoms if the have the diesese ???

 

Indication: For active immunisation by racing pigeons against (symptoms caused) by Salmonella

 

So not against Sammonella but only symptoms caused