Pigeon Dropping verification

[Guest IB]

You've  not made clear what has been refused, permission to erect a loft, or permission to keep pigeons? Also what type of property are we talking about, council-owned, or privately-owned?

 

You don't have to prove anything. If there is an allegation that your birds droppings fouled a neighbour's garden, the onus of proof of 'guilt' lies with those making that accusation, it's not the accused that has to prove they're innocent.

 

There is a pigeon fancier, a chartered architect, who handles matters like this.

[REDCHEQHEN]

Pigeon won't crap whilst flying.  

 

 

I was told that - but it's not true

They do

 

[Guest Grasshopper Lofts]

 

 

I was told that - but it's not true

They do

 

have to agree have seen it with my own eyes

[REDCHEQHEN]

 

have to agree have seen it with my own eyes

 

I've been hit (evil)

[retired]

You've  not made clear what has been refused, permission to erect a loft, or permission to keep pigeons? Also what type of property are we talking about, council-owned, or privately-owned?

 

You don't have to prove anything. If there is an allegation that your birds droppings fouled a neighbour's garden, the onus of proof of 'guilt' lies with those making that accusation, it's not the accused that has to prove they're innocent.

 

There is a pigeon fancier, a chartered architect, who handles matters like this.

 

 

It is basically a council house although they were handed over to an association.

 

I have permission for the 18ft loft i currently have up but applied to dismantle the 18ft and replace it with a 40ft.

 

At the shortest length of my back garden it is approx 110ft long and 34ft wide.

 

With regards to proving the droppings it feels in this case that i have to prove my innocence and not them prove my guilt i will continue to argue the case and will photograph every bit of cat **** on the garden and log it accordingly.

 

IB - Know you are up on this sort of thing what is the law to your knowledge on cats being on neighbours gardens please

 

[Guest Grasshopper Lofts]

 

I've been hit (evil)

 

;D ;D ;D ;D good luck that

[pjc]

 

 

It is basically a council house although they were handed over to an association.

 

I have permission for the 18ft loft i currently have up but applied to dismantle the 18ft and replace it with a 40ft.

 

At the shortest length of my back garden it is approx 110ft long and 34ft wide.

 

With regards to proving the droppings it feels in this case that i have to prove my innocence and not them prove my guilt i will continue to argue the case and will photograph every bit of cat **** on the garden and log it accordingly.

 

IB - Know you are up on this sort of thing what is the law to your knowledge on cats being on neighbours gardens please

 

I would ask neighbours politly to keep there cats in there own garden and the reason why , if they still persist then photograph the cats in your garden, then warn your neighbour they will be removed if the cats persist and if they don't do something then remove the cats as you will have given them enough warning!

[retired]

 

I would ask neighbours politly to keep there cats in there own garden and the reason why , if they still persist then photograph the cats in your garden, then warn your neighbour they will be removed if the cats persist and if they don't do something then remove the cats as you will have given them enough warning!

 

 

Think its all gone a little too far for talking Phil, once i go out they seem to shoot back in the house - Even quicker today when they opened there door and see Steve in my garden as he is built like a brick *s--- house  ;D 8)

 

[pjc]

do you want me to bring a gun up at the weekend, i'll remove them for you?

[retired]

do you want me to bring a gun up at the weekend, i'll remove them for you?

 

No point mate i had one until the ARU took it away yesterday  >

 

 

[THE FIFER]

 

 

I was told that - but it's not true

They do

 

yes but not very often,

[Guest]

 

No point mate i had one until the ARU took it away yesterday  >

 

 

Chris sent you a pm for cat removal, works a treat.

[Roland]

Cat do not, DEFINATELY don't have a licence to roam. Is an ole myth.

Alf Jones, and several others have knocked on nieghbours doors and explain this. Further saying just who do they think they are letting the cats on others property to foul it up etc. To screech and make hell of a racket out side their house!

The norm reply is 'EH UM How can we stop them' Answer 'Don't know,  nor do I care, but if they come on my property I could sue you, or hand you a dead cat back'.

Yes has even been know to to knock a door and show them a dead cat saying 'Hope yours is not next'. works lol.

[Guest]

Throw the cat sh** that is on your lawn back into their pool and see how much pigeon sh** lands on your lawn.I bet you win   ;)

[white logan]

a point of law regarding cats ;

                                         cats have the right to roam granted by royal decree after the great plauge , however ,

they have not the right to commit damage while roaming , now for the most important part , CATS ARE NOT CONSIDERD PROPERTY unlike a dog ,

even if the "so called" owner says he seen you pick the cat up and removed it , you may take it and destroy the animal if you can prove it has been doing damage to your property , ie, trying to kill pigeons ,persistanly fouling where it is a risk to health ,

take it to a vet and have a leathal injection ,or , a single gun shot to the head will be sufficient .

never ever say you drownd it in water , kicked the sh1t out of it or let the bull terrier test its teeth on it , or you mannaged to toss it from your car doing 110 MPH down the motorway , the term you use is ; humanly destroyed every time .

next pigeon droppings in a childs pool

                                                    contact your vet , arrange to feed a dyed feed to your birds under vetinary supervision , arrange for any collected droppings to be tested at a DEFRA approved centre for animal health (contact me if you want an address) if your neighbour refuses to co,operate for the collection of droppings then this can be stated to the council or local authority pointing out that you are willing to go to this expense for the sake of neighbourly relations , they will fall on their ar$$es because if you have a garden that is 110 feet long and you are willing to prove that your birds are not a health risk they cannot refuse you permision for your new loft ,...... if you need any more advice i will be pleased to disscus my fee

[retired]

Cat do not, DEFINATELY don't have a licence to roam. Is an ole myth.

Alf Jones, and several others have knocked on nieghbours doors and explain this. Further saying just who do they think they are letting the cats on others property to foul it up etc. To screech and make hell of a racket out side their house!

The norm reply is 'EH UM How can we stop them' Answer 'Don't know,  nor do I care, but if they come on my property I could sue you, or hand you a dead cat back'.

Yes has even been know to to knock a door and show them a dead cat saying 'Hope yours is not next'. works lol.

 

I will speak with Alf tomorrow - Known him via Geoff Clare since i was about 13 and also bought two corkers off him via Jakjaks club sale this year

 

 

[retired]

a point of law regarding cats ;

                                         cats have the right to roam granted by royal decree after the great plauge , however ,

they have not the right to commit damage while roaming , now for the most important part , CATS ARE NOT CONSIDERD PROPERTY unlike a dog ,

even if the "so called" owner says he seen you pick the cat up and removed it , you may take it and destroy the animal if you can prove it has been doing damage to your property , ie, trying to kill pigeons ,persistanly fouling where it is a risk to health ,

take it to a vet and have a leathal injection ,or , a single gun shot to the head will be sufficient .

never ever say you drownd it in water , kicked the sh1t out of it or let the bull terrier test its teeth on it , or you mannaged to toss it from your car doing 110 MPH down the motorway , the term you use is ; humanly destroyed every time .

next pigeon droppings in a childs pool

                                                    contact your vet , arrange to feed a dyed feed to your birds under vetinary supervision , arrange for any collected droppings to be tested at a DEFRA approved centre for animal health (contact me if you want an address) if your neighbour refuses to co,operate for the collection of droppings then this can be stated to the council or local authority pointing out that you are willing to go to this expense for the sake of neighbourly relations , they will fall on their ar$$es because if you have a garden that is 110 feet long and you are willing to prove that your birds are not a health risk they cannot refuse you permision for your new loft ,...... if you need any more advice i will be pleased to disscus my fee

 

Thank you

 

Will copy and paste this to a word document and print off.

 

 

[kots1]

Pigeon won't crap whilst flying. Mind I don't know why don't think other wild birds never do! :-/  Suprised you asked for permission. Don't ask and it can't be refused. Mind most in Brussels are pigeon fanciers lol. If within certain confines, and height, the law of the Land says you can have one. Now No by laws, or local laws can override the law of the land.... Our Goverments laws. Further NO council rep can come and ask to see your lofts etc. if you don't want him in. May be they can write and you arrange a time when you have the Press and your reprosenative there. BUT they can't just walk in willy nilly.

Yes one could tell if they are pigeons droppings.

Johnny11 on here would be able to give you all the ins and outs regards that I should imagine.

mmm, well mine must put there crap in there pockets and throw it at us as they are flying over mate, as a nice cup of coffee in the morning has been spoiled with them throwing it at me and the mrs when sitting on veranda, terrible what they throw at you when they just come of there eggs,

 

 

[Guest mick bowler]

Chris my advice to you is to stay put. Once you start moving around because of your birds you won't stop. I'd say for every 50 bad neighbours there is one good one, rare as rocking horse pooh!

 

I moved twice for the same reasons, and nearly a 3rd, and they were not just bad but evil. Really got out of hand. But i just kept my head down and did things on the sly.

 

Had council round most weeks but they just got pissed off in the end as everything was clean and tidy and within guidelines. There were times it got heated, very heated (police called etc) and was not limited to just birds in the end. I just made them feel intimidated, i would sit in the garden watching them, sometimes with binoculars around my neck, pretending to drink a strong lager from a can etc!  Also i used to love getting up at 5am to see to my birds and mow the lawn and strim the edges.

 

Oh nearly forgot, she had a cat that crapped in mine too, so i just used to fire it at there house with a catapult as well as my dogs.

 

As they say what goes around comes around!

 

Good luck

 

Mick

[Guest IB]

I have permission for the 18ft loft i currently have up but applied to dismantle the 18ft and replace it with a 40ft.

 

At the shortest length of my back garden it is approx 110ft long and 34ft wide.

 

IB - Know you are up on this sort of thing what is the law to your knowledge on cats being on neighbours gardens please

 

Well, you have them by the short & curlies.  

 

You would need to do a search on English Law for the equivalent of ours (first posted by Fifer a few years back):-

 

DOG FOULING, PETS AND ANIMALS

Dogs and other animals are often the subject of complaint in neighbour nuisance cases. The following are some of the legal remedies available to deal with such complaints. For more detail and references on law on animals see Collins and O'Carroll (1997).

 

Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 - section 48: this makes it an offence for anyone in charge of a dog to allow it to deposit its excrement in certain public places including footpaths, footways, children's play areas and other local authority areas which are used for sporting and recreational purposes. Any person who allows it to do so is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500.

 

Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 - section 49: this provides that any person who suffers or permits any creature in his charge to cause danger or injury to any other person who is in a public place or to give such a person reasonable cause for alarm or annoyance shall be guilty of an offence and liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 2 (currently £500).

 

Section 49 also provides that a district court, if satisfied that any creature kept in the vicinity of any place where a person resides is giving that person reasonable cause for annoyance, may make an order requiring the person keeping the creature to take, within such period as may be specified in the order, such steps (short of destruction of the creature) to prevent the continuance of the annoyance as may be so specified. Any person who fails to comply with the order is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 3 (currently £1,000).

 

[Guest IB]

Vallance, I had to continue my last post, screen jumping for some reason:-

 

There is also Case Law precedent for property planning permission, which could be applied here. It is called the Mutuality principle, which basically says a neighbour cannot object by complaining of a breach of the rules governing a neighbour's property, if that neighbour is himself in breach of the same rules. They can't complain your birds are causing a nuisance in their garden, while at the same time their cat is causing a nuisance in yours.

 

Refusal of Planning Permission for the new loft could be appealed and won on those grounds alone. There is more from Case Law: basically a neighbour cannot 'suddenly' object to an  activity in a neighbour's property, which has been taking place for a period of time, and on which they have previously been silent; nor can they stand back and watch money being spent on the activity for a period of time, then 'suddenly' object. Lastly, there is the 'bad neighbour' principle which states that 'objections out of spite' (to planning permission being granted) cannot be upheld. What about other neighbours that share a boundary with your garden? Have they objected? Will they give you letters saying that you are a good neighbour?

[pigeonpete]

Chris, is there deffo no reasoning with them or has it gone way to far? surely some compromise can be arranged? As life for both parties will end up just 1 long misery, And we dont want a pigeon loft on neighbours from hell :-).

[retired]

Chris, is there deffo no reasoning with them or has it gone way to far? surely some compromise can be arranged? As life for both parties will end up just 1 long misery, And we dont want a pigeon loft on neighbours from hell :-).

 

No mate gone way to far for that

 

[Craig05]

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear about your misery mate.  i know you say it has gone way to far already, but might be an idea to just knock on their door and make it clear to them first up that you dont want any arguments and would like to sit down like adults and sort it all out.  Let them think that they have won the little argument by you being nice and let them think that you have put your pride in your pocket and given in to them.  invite them for a bbq or something and try and become "friends"  slowly try and involve their kids by showing them eggs, babies ect

i think it would be easier to get them on your side by you being really nice to them and almost agreeing with them but not quite.  This method might take a bit longer mate, but once you have the permission for the new loft, you can tell them where to go.

 

If it has gone to far and they wont open the door to you or ignore you completely, try a letter through the door explaining and or even appologising that it has gone this far, and make it clear that you would like to sort it out.

[Guest IB]

As I advised earlier, there is a professional available, who has written articles in BHW on cases such as yours. Wouldn't hurt to contact him:-

 

There's a guy in the british homing worl studbook whose an architect who specalises in this sort of thing especially if the local authority says you can't have a loft his details are as follows:-

 

Ronald Shirley

 

01453 843 180

 

e-mail shazz@gotads1.co.uk

 

He offers a special service for RPRA members ....