prevention is better then cure

[ALF]

i was led to beleave that the wet droppings were because i had only just had the birds and it was stress and to wait 2 weeks and they should be ok

 

NO NO NO!!!

[Guest karl adams]

what got me is any corn shop i went to and told them of the problem i had got  they all said (i have got somethink here that will clear that up its only £10) or they would say treat them for cocci or wet cancker

[Guest]

 

is it not Animal health that give you a result within 24 hours ?

 

 

Pigeon Health, Tammy.

 

Monday was a holiday, he wouldn't take my order; I phoned again Tuesday, he posted kit out; got that Wednesday, I did a pooled sample [whole loft] and got it back same day. He phoned me at agreed time on Thursday, told me what I had [bacterial respiratory problem & a 'touch' of cocci] told me what I needed for it & posted it out. Got it Friday, and started treatment same day.

 

This happened during 2007 OB season and I was rained-off for two races. Learned my lesson, get 1st test before season starts. Have already taken care of that for 2008 with a payment for david parson's cd, which includes voucher for a free droppings test.  

 

[ALF]

what got me is any corn shop i went to and told them of the problem i had got  they all said (i have got somethink here that will clear that up its only £10) or they would say treat them for cocci or wet cancker

 

THATS 1 THING YOU WILL LEARN MATE THEY ARE SALES PEOPLE 1ST AND FOREMOST

[Guest karl adams]

i had a test done by what i was told was the best versele laga a waste of time and money

[Guest Vic]

Karl! I may be wrong, but surely you are taking the p*ss?  After all, most of these basic members, are still using flint under their lums. ;D

[ALF]

Karl! I may be wrong, but surely you are taking the p*ss?  After all, most of these basic members, are still using flint under their lums. ;D

 

MAYBE YOUR STILL USING THE FLINT WITH YOUR RUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest karl adams]

Karl! I may be wrong, but surely you are taking the p*ss?  After all, most of these basic members, are still using flint under their lums.

 

what you mean

[Guest]

 

THATS 1 THING YOU WILL LEARN MATE THEY ARE SALES PEOPLE 1ST AND FOREMOST

 

Well I have mentioned that fear before   the two hats theory -

 

Yes you have a problem   and Yes, I can sell you something for it.  >

 

 

 

[Guest karl adams]

i even went to  meditech to get some oral rehydration salts and they told me to treat them for young bird sickness witch  cost me £25 but i never used

[Guest]

i even went to  meditech to get some oral rehydration salts and they told me to treat them for young bird sickness witch  cost me £25 but i never used

 

Karl,you were on the right track with your origonal post,you have the beginnings or basics of a good medication plan,you have seen first hand the results of not treating so you know yourself you are doing the right things now.Pro biotics would also be an excelent addition to your programme,perhaps 3 days a week,as would garlic and cider vinegar.None of the usual canker,cocci and wormers are anti biotics and don't let anyone tell you that the odd 6 monthly dose of well chosen anti biotics is wrong because the most succesful fanciers in the country do this.Anyone who thinks you don't need to treat for anything in this day and age is very naive,my birds are cleaned out every day and have vast amounts of space but because they mix with other birds through competition they need preventative treatments as they pick things up from untreated birds,it also makes diagnosis much easier if you do get a problem because you know they have been treated for canker,cocci,worms etc,if you treat for nothing then it could be anything!!.I actually believe that I end up treating less than the fanciers that profess to treat for nothing as I don't end up clutching at straws and giving them every drug going in a mad panic because they are sick and you don't know whats wrong with them!!.

[Guest karl adams]

i intend to carry on in the way i am doing    i do give my birds ( a c v ) i give it them on tuesday and wensday and i give garlic on sundays and im going to stick to it

[Guest]

i intend to carry on in the way i am doing    i do give my birds ( a c v ) i give it them on tuesday and wensday and i give garlic on sundays and im going to stick to it

 

You are doing the right thing,good luck with your birds

[Guest karl adams]

an old friend of mine used to give his birds a tea on a sunday it was made with privet leaves and mint leavs he said it cleaned them out

[PigeonClarke]

 

Karl,you were on the right track with your origonal post,you have the beginnings or basics of a good medication plan,you have seen first hand the results of not treating so you know yourself you are doing the right things now.Pro biotics would also be an excelent addition to your programme,perhaps 3 days a week,as would garlic and cider vinegar.None of the usual canker,cocci and wormers are anti biotics and don't let anyone tell you that the odd 6 monthly dose of well chosen anti biotics is wrong because the most succesful fanciers in the country do this.Anyone who thinks you don't need to treat for anything in this day and age is very naive,my birds are cleaned out every day and have vast amounts of space but because they mix with other birds through competition they need preventative treatments as they pick things up from untreated birds,it also makes diagnosis much easier if you do get a problem because you know they have been treated for canker,cocci,worms etc,if you treat for nothing then it could be anything!!.I actually believe that I end up treating less than the fanciers that profess to treat for nothing as I don't end up clutching at straws and giving them every drug going in a mad panic because they are sick and you don't know whats wrong with them!!.

 

On an eqvalan wormer I have the instruction booklet reads "an antibiotic and ivermecton based paste"

Do you treat after every show chrissy. If so how many shows do you attend?

[Guest]

 

On an eqvalan wormer I have the instruction booklet reads "an antibiotic and ivermecton based paste"

Do you treat after every show chrissy. If so how many shows do you attend?

 

No I have used antibiotics twice in the last 13 months,there is no need to go over board,I probably do about 18 shows a year

[PigeonClarke]

 

No I have used antibiotics twice in the last 13 months,there is no need to go over board,I probably do about 18 shows a year

 

So if an untreated bird has canker at a show, the treatment you gave before wont stop it being passed on because its a treatment and not a prevention? So still whats the point if this can happen. Is it not better to help build up their immune system with yogurt etc and hope its strong enough to fight away infections? And if the bird does get sick then treat it?

[Guest]

 

So if an untreated bird has canker at a show, the treatment you gave before wont stop it being passed on because its a treatment and not a prevention? So still whats the point if this can happen. Is it not better to help build up their immune system with yogurt etc and hope its strong enough to fight away infections? And if the bird does get sick then treat it?

 

I use cocci tricho/strike or similar after shows,thought you meant anti biotics.

[Guest]

what antibiotics have i given my birds

 

I think you are not alone Karl, this is a common misunderstanding on this forum anyway. Most pigeon folk don't seem to even know that they are using antibiotics.

 

I think it's because it used to be a term exclusively used for the drugs to treat bacterial infections,  nowadays it seems to be intercghangeable with 'antimicrobial' and now has much the same meaning - a man-made pharmaceutical drug for treating any living micro-organism in the body.

 

Search the forum for all these terms, the first is the antibiotic name, the second in Caps, the Trade Name: amoxycillin [Clamoxyl], chloramphenicol, lincomycin [Lincospectin], tetracyclines [Terramycin, Oxycycline, Doxymycin], tylosin [Tylan], furaltadone [Coryzium, Furacin], sulphadimidine [Quinox, Coxi Pus, Avisol], tolttrazuril [baycox], metronidazole [Flagyl, Meditrich], carnidazole [spartrix]  Ronidazole [Trich Plus, Ridzol], Nystatin [ Medistatin],  

 

Wim Peters in page 322 of his book says :

 

Whatever is said about antibiotics applies equally well to antimicrobials. They are similar, the main difference being that antibiotics were originally produced by micro-organisms (some are now manufactured synthetically) and antimicrobials are purely synthetic.

 

More and more use is made of antibiotics in pigeon racing. Occasionally the use of the drugs is justified, as when explicit disease is present, but more and more frequently they are given because of the mistaken belief that antibiotics are some kind of stimulant, making the birds perform above their natural physical capabilities. This nis a fallacy, as there are no drugs (steroid hormones included) that will enable healthy in-form pigeons to win races that they could not otherwise win.

 

Antibiotics can, if given correctly, assist the bird to achieve maximum health and by this means improve performances. There are many disease conditions that negatively affect pigeon super health. Being strong and resilient creatures (selection thro decades of racing has helped immensely) the revealing signs of ill health are hidden behind a cloak of apparent health and often only scientific tests can reveal the truth. The trained eye of an experienced fancier detects that something is preventing 'form', but often he does not know just what it is.

 

All drugs have side effects and when healthy pigeons are dosed with antibiotics they are handicapped as no medicine is totally harmless to the 'patient'. Although aimed against the invading germ, some side-effects are experienced by the 'patient'. Side effects include:-

 

1. reactions in specific body systems

2. suppression of 'beneficial gut bacteria' and fungal overgrowth

3. vitamin 'digestion' is slowed or stopped

4. constant use, particularly if underdosed, can promote bacterial resistance.

 

In practice it means when a fancier administers antibiotics to his/her birds to promote their racing ability, he/she may initiate resistance in the 'beneficial gut bacteria' . These are then capable of genetically transmitting their acquired resistance to pathogenic bacteria , and subsequent treatments against these  pathogenic bacteria will be inneffective.

 

I have posted before on this resistance on this forum, it has been proved in pigeon canker & cocci organisms, and it has been proved in pigeon friendly gut bacteria - transmission to streptococcus,  resistant streptococcus which was then found in fanciers gut.  

 

[frank-123]

http://www.vpu.co.za/articles/colin_walker/walker/health/health_1.htm

have a look here this might help

[HOMER49]

 

Karl,you were on the right track with your origonal post,you have the beginnings or basics of a good medication plan,you have seen first hand the results of not treating so you know yourself you are doing the right things now.Pro biotics would also be an excelent addition to your programme,perhaps 3 days a week,as would garlic and cider vinegar.None of the usual canker,cocci and wormers are anti biotics and don't let anyone tell you that the odd 6 monthly dose of well chosen anti biotics is wrong because the most succesful fanciers in the country do this.Anyone who thinks you don't need to treat for anything in this day and age is very naive,my birds are cleaned out every day and have vast amounts of space but because they mix with other birds through competition they need preventative treatments as they pick things up from untreated birds,it also makes diagnosis much easier if you do get a problem because you know they have been treated for canker,cocci,worms etc,if you treat for nothing then it could be anything!!.I actually believe that I end up treating less than the fanciers that profess to treat for nothing as I don't end up clutching at straws and giving them every drug going in a mad panic because they are sick and you don't know whats wrong with them!!.

 

Hi Chrissy

Very well put and all common sense

Cheers

Homer 49