Bleach in Water

[Ronnie]

Before i got my pigeons the one piece of advice was given to me was use common sense and you wont go wrong.

Now people are using bleach in drinking water just dosnt seem common sense to me.Look at what you are trying to acheive with bleach then look for another alternative(a more edible one would be a good idea).

If its for sterilising the drinker then why? just give fresh water daily and make sure the drinkers are washed and cleaned on a regular basis.

Now if its for changing the ph level's inside the pigeons crop and gut thats a different story.Most bacteria struggles to live in an enviroment that is high in alkiline's or acid's that's good bacteria as well as bad.Most people choose to use cider vinigar in tap water for there bird's(myself included) but i am of the belief that vinigar in tap water is just altering the Ph levels to a more neutral level due to chlorine allready in tap water.The neutral enviroment allows to good bacteria to thrive and kill the bad bacteria provided the birds immune system and the loft management is of a good level.I also use gem the pax one a week to give the good bacteria a helping hand.

None of this is proven and just my belief but the overall point being common sense should prevail and vinigar is for eating and bleach is for cleaning.

[jimbobboy]

jimbobboy says:  Back in the early 60's when the government was putting out a-bomb home shelter booklets it recomended putting no more than 3-drops of bleach to a gallon of water for storing in the shelter that's all!!!  Since then it is not recomended at all either are the bomb shelters!!!!!!

[blackjack]

Myself and Dave Posey use bleach in the bath and drinkers it doesnt effect are birds or performances in a useful tool.

[Guest slugmonkey]

Well I guess this is one we agree to disagree on I have used bleach as a sanitizing agent sprayed in the lofts ( only if I plan to leave loft empty for several weeks ) but I still cannot belive you would knowingly give it to your birds

As for cider vinegar there are other benifits besides raising the PH there are flavanoids, and live bacteria cultures as well as trace amounts of vitamins and minerals it also raises the ph of the droppings and makes them more resistant to growing bacteria there I would also go out on a limb and say that vinegar is probably bad on worms as well ???

[THE PRIEST]

Never used bleach however i use milton to wash my drinkers out daily.

michael.

[MsPigeon]

There is an article in the Feb "Racing Pigeon Digest" on the benefits f useing chlorine in your pigeons water.

Carol  

[FLAPPER 123]

never heard anything so stupid...BLEACH in pigeons drinking water??? would you give your kids it to drink??? i know pigeon men are always looking for magic potions etc to win,but bleach is madness...

[Guest slugmonkey]

A point I would also like to bring up is WHAT IS BLEACH ? if you read the side of a bleach bottle it may contain anything from Hydrogen Peroxide  to Calcium Hypochloride as these are bleaching agents so again there is more confusion as to what you are getting

When buying pool chlorine it is usally sold one of 3 ways, Dychlor, Trichlor, and Calcium Hypochlorite all of these are considered CHLORINE although they are 3 very diffrent substances and act in VERY diffrent ways with diffrent strengths

I dont think that all of these substances are harmful but I dont know enough about them to tell which is which

The statement about black minerals is false they don't contain bleach they contain chlorine which is a bleaching agent, chlorine is a naturally occuring substance that is used in a lot of bleaches but it is not bleach

[Guest IB]

Have always considered bleach as something 'for external use only'. Think if you check it also says that on the bottle, and includes the warning hazchem sign X which means 'IRRITANT'.

 

On the same subject, but a slightly different tack: I was reading an article in a trade magazine on concerns some of the industry chemists had on bugs developing resistance to disinfecting agents (like bleach). The technical term used was 'selection'. Much the same as an antibiotic, disinfecting agents don't kill all the bugs, and those that are left after 'the treatment' develop resistance to it.

 

[frank-123]

milton and bleach are two diffrent thing's

first milton baby fluid for sterlizeing baby's bottle's sold in all local supermarket's

 

bleach for cleaning toilets also sold in supermarkets

 

milton is used for water at all major music festival's in the uk keeps it fresh and sterile for 24 hours

nothing wrong in cleaning your drinkers with milton

 

[REDCHEQHEN]

milton and bleach are two diffrent thing's

first milton baby fluid for sterlizeing baby's bottle's sold in all local supermarket's

 

bleach for cleaning toilets also sold in supermarkets

 

milton is used for water at all major music festival's in the uk keeps it fresh and sterile for 24 hours

nothing wrong in cleaning your drinkers with milton

 

Milton IS bleach

 

sodium hypochlorite

 

It also come in tablet form to sterilise water for drinking purposes for back packers in third world countries

[frank-123]

milton is not bleach

 

  What is Milton made of?

Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride.

Milton Fluid with a red label is the original 1% sodium Phypochlorite and is only supplied to hospitals and health authorities.

Milton found in retail outlets is twice the strength at 2% sodium hypochlorite.

   Hypochlorites are known to be unstable. Is Milton any different?

Yes, the purification process during the manufacture of Milton ensures complete removal of all heavy metal ions, which would normally act as a catalyst to chemically breakdown many hypochlorites, causing instability. Therefore accurate levels of available chlorine can be obtained with Milton.

 

   Hypochlorite is bleach, which is toxic. Is Milton toxic also?

No. As stated above, toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their

decomposition, sodium chlorate. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).

   What are the main properties of Milton?

Stability. Non Toxicity.

  It is known that Milton can be used as a disinfecting agent, but can it sterilise?

Milton will sterilise as long as the

requirements for chemical sterilisation with hypochlorites is carried out. These are:

(a) Scrupulous attention to pre-cleansing of

the item to be sterilised.

( Stability and lack of toxicity of the active agent.

© That the article to be sterilised is of a

material compatible with hypochlorite

and is so constructed that it can be

cleaned properly.

The Milton Method of cleaning bottle and teats incorporates these requirements.  

 

[REDCHEQHEN]

Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride.

 

sodium hypochlorite is bleach

 

no matter how you look at it - it may not be as high a percentage as household bleach - but it is basically a weaker solution of it - I don't care what they say - I've analysed the stuff - in the days we had vim and ajax scouring powders (calcium hypochlorite)

[Guest IB]

Sodium hypochlorite is a form of chlorine, and is a bleach. I think Milton must be a very weak solution though, judging by the hazchem information at this link:

 

 

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_hypochlorite.html

[frank-123]

Hypochlorite is bleach, which is toxic. Is Milton toxic also?

 

 

No. As stated above, toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their

decomposition, sodium chlorate. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).

 

we beg to differ redcheqhen

[frank-123]

Milton Pharmaceutical Company UK Limited

                         SAFETY DATA SHEET

Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for Supply) Regulations 1994

 

                                             CSDS No:     ICP 9         Issue: 3

                                             Date:          November 2004

1.  Identification of the

Substance/Preparation

     MILTON STERILISING FLUID

 

Company

     

Milton Pharmaceutical Company UK Limited

Ceuta Healthcare Limited,  Hill House, 41 Richmond Hill, Bournemouth BH2 6HS

Tel:  (01202) 780558     Fax:  (01202) 780559

 

2.  Composition/Information

on Ingredients

 

     An aqueous sterilising solution containing:

 

                    % w/w          Symbol          Risk Phrase of

                                        ingredients

Chlorine-based bleaching agent     <5%              C          R31, R34

 

Milton Sterilising Fluid 1%w/v gives 10,000 ppm available chlorine

Milton Sterilising Fluid 2%w/v gives 20,000 ppm available chlorine

 

3.  Hazards identification

     This product is not classified as hazardous.  Do not mix with or store close to acids or cleaners.  Toxic gases (chlorine) may be liberated.

 

4.  First-aid measures

 

     Skin contact:     Upon prolonged contact with skin, the product may cause slight skin           irritation.  Wash affected area thoroughly with water.

 

Eye contact: If the product gets into the eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of           water for at least 5 minutes.

 

Ingestion:     If accidental ingestion should occur, drink plenty of water or milk.  Do not induce vomiting.  If any symptoms persist, seek medical advice.

 

Inhalation:            If irritation should occur, rinse mouth and throat with water and move to fresh air.

 

5.  Fire fighting measures

 

     The product itself is non-flammable.  If product or packaging are involved in a fire, toxic chlorine gases may be released.  Use CO2, dry chemical powders or alcohol resistant foam.  If water is used, contain run-off.

 

6.  Accidental release measures     Avoid spillage into sewers or surface water.  For small spills, sluice to drain with plenty of water.  For large spills, pump into containers and dispose of according to local legislation.

 

7.  Handling and storage

     Store in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area.  Do not mix with or store close to acids or cleaners.  Keep out of reach of children.

 

8.  Exposure controls/

Personal protection

     Not a hazard under normal use.  For prolonged or repeated contact, protection of the skin may be necessary.  Rinse and dry hands thoroughly after each cleaning job.

9.  Physical and chemical

properties

     Appearance:     Clear aqueous liquid

pH (undiluted):     11

Non-flammable, non-explosive, non-oxidising.  Contains oxidising agent.

Relative density:     ca. 1.14

Water solubility:     High

Packaging:      Polyethylene bottle, Polypropylene cap.

 

10.  Stability and reactivity

     Stable under normal conditions.  Do not store below 0oC.  Contact with acids liberates toxic gas (chlorine).

 

11.  Toxicological information

 

     This product is not acutely toxic, after ingestion it may cause emesis.  If large quantities are ingested, treat symptomatically.  If irritant effects are seen, these will be mild to moderate, depending on exposure.  If in contact with eyes flushing with water is recommended.

 

Estimated acute oral toxicity:     LD50 (rats) > 2g/Kg

Skin irritation:               May cause slight skin irritation

Eye irritation:               May cause transient superficial irritation

Mutagenicity:               Not mutagenic

Sensitisation:               No evidence of skin sensitisation

 

 

 

12.  Ecological information

     Ingredients have a known ecotoxicity supporting their safe use. The hypochlorite decomposes to give water and a small amount of common salt.

 

13.  Disposal considerations

     Sluice to waste with plenty of water.  Dispose of packaging with normal household waste.

 

14.  Transport information

     Not classified.  No special precautions.

15.  Regulatory information

     Classified as non-dangerous in accordance with Directive 88/379/EEC and local implementation.  All ingredients are EINECS registered.

 

16.  Other information

     No special training required before use.  Usage and handling instructions are provided on the packaging.

 

 

[Guest speckled]

:-/ so i take  it  a idiot will use it  then. after  all  that imfo lol :-/ speck if  drunk use plenty natraul yougart opps

[Guest slugmonkey]

WOW sorry I opened that can of worms !

the point I was trying to make is that anything that whitens can be labeled as BLEACH and could feasibly contain any number of substances !

I belive this stuff you call Milton is a brand name of a particular substance but more importantly I think it is used AS A WATER TREATMENT SAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ? if that is the case then I am sure its probably safe for birds !

 

Check out the lethal dose for rats more than 2 Kg.