MUSCLE BOUND

[Skull Lofts]

Hi all

 

Who have encountered this phenomina with theire birds before?

Why does it happen?

Is there MUTI to counteract it?

 

 

Skull

[Guest]

Hi all

 

Who have encountered this phenomina with theire birds before?

Why does it happen?

Is there MUTI to counteract it?

 

 

Skull

Lack of amino acids,Lactic, :-/

 

 

[pjc]

Lack of amino acids,Lactic, :-/

 

 

 

lack of or a build up of lactic acid?

 

[Guest Owen]

I have never heard of a muscle bound pigeon before. What are the symptoms? The references to lactic acid would be true in the case of animals and humans, but I think that it is stretching it to claim that a pigeon is muscle bound. In any case there would not be conection between a creature being muscle bound and tired. Muscle cramp produced by over exertion is very differant from muscle bound. Lactic acid builds up in the body as a result of phyisical effort and for it to cause a pigeon problems the bird would have had to fly for a considerable time at pace. I think that the real problem lies elsewhere. Mineral deficiency for example. I have seen a lot of pigeons with mineral deficiency in the last year or so. And some have shown signs of rickets. Their legs were quite bendy. Sorry to disagree, but it is what I think is your problem. One thing is certain. If you have this one bird showing these syptoms, there will be others suffering similarly. A think a good avian Vet is called for. If you do decide to see a Vet, I would like you to follow up by letting us know the outcome.

[OLDYELLOW]

i would say that a stiff bird is a bird thats over exerted its self and not been race fit have one at home tonight   if no better by wednesday it wont be here  

[Roland]

 

I found the follow up Skull on the Alberta classic. Nice to get other views I believe. I often quote other topi of psters of other sites as I feel it can only be of a benefit.

 

also as Karl wrote and quoting ... http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=694283

 

Water is the main component of blood and cells. It fills most of the spaces around cells. To function normally, the body must keep the amount of water in these areas in balance and relatively constant. Too little water (dehydration) or too much water (overhydration) in the body can cause problems.

 

The water in the body contains dissolved minerals called electrolytes. They include sodium, potassium, and calcium. The body must also keep levels of electrolytes in balance and relatively constant. The balance of electrolytes is closely tied to the balance of water in the body: If one changes, the other usually also changes.

 

To maintain water and electrolyte balance, the body must replace water and electrolytes that are lost as the body performs its necessary functions. The body loses water and electrolytes primarily in urine, produced by the kidneys. Water and electrolytes are also lost in sweat, feces, and air that is breathed out. The body obtains water and electrolytes primarily from beverages and foods consumed. A healthy body can adjust the amount of water and electrolytes lost and consumed. Thirst, hunger, and the kidneys help with these adjustments. For example, a person who feels thirsty usually drinks more fluids. When a person becomes dehydrated, the brain releases a hormone called antidiuretic hormone. This hormone signals the kidneys to retain more water by making and excreting less urine.

 

As the body ages, it changes in ways that make older people more likely to have problems with water and electrolyte balance. The older body contains less water. Water accounts for 60% of body weight in healthy young people but for only 45% in healthy older people. In older people, the kidneys are less able to regulate the excretion of water and to concentrate urine as needed. Therefore, more water may be lost in urine. Also, older people often do not drink enough water, especially on hot days, partly because they tend to be less thirsty. If older people have problems with walking, they may not be able to get themselves enough water to drink. Older people who have urinary incontinence may drink less because they are worried about getting to a bathroom in time.

 

Many disorders, especially those that cause fever, vomiting, or diarrhea, can result in problems with water and electrolyte balance. These disorders may be short-lived (for example, pneumonia) or chronic (for example, kidney failure). Many drugs, especially diuretics, can also cause problems.

[Roland]

Now that brings us back to the use of 'Electrolytes' and can one really replenish the balance of waht is actually the parts  - if any - that may need replenishing.

I know for a fact, that birds know a darn site more than me - and most vets, and aren't after a few bob - Just look how they recover. But will add the rest under the Electrodes heading.

[OLDYELLOW]

I found the follow up Skull on the Alberta classic. Nice to get other views I believe. I often quote other topi of psters of other sites as I feel it can only be of a benefit.

 

also as Karl wrote and quoting ... http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=694283

 

Water is the main component of blood and cells. It fills most of the spaces around cells. To function normally, the body must keep the amount of water in these areas in balance and relatively constant. Too little water (dehydration) or too much water (overhydration) in the body can cause problems.

 

The water in the body contains dissolved minerals called electrolytes. They include sodium, potassium, and calcium. The body must also keep levels of electrolytes in balance and relatively constant. The balance of electrolytes is closely tied to the balance of water in the body: If one changes, the other usually also changes.

 

To maintain water and electrolyte balance, the body must replace water and electrolytes that are lost as the body performs its necessary functions. The body loses water and electrolytes primarily in urine, produced by the kidneys. Water and electrolytes are also lost in sweat, feces, and air that is breathed out. The body obtains water and electrolytes primarily from beverages and foods consumed. A healthy body can adjust the amount of water and electrolytes lost and consumed. Thirst, hunger, and the kidneys help with these adjustments. For example, a person who feels thirsty usually drinks more fluids. When a person becomes dehydrated, the brain releases a hormone called antidiuretic hormone. This hormone signals the kidneys to retain more water by making and excreting less urine.

 

As the body ages, it changes in ways that make older people more likely to have problems with water and electrolyte balance. The older body contains less water. Water accounts for 60% of body weight in healthy young people but for only 45% in healthy older people. In older people, the kidneys are less able to regulate the excretion of water and to concentrate urine as needed. Therefore, more water may be lost in urine. Also, older people often do not drink enough water, especially on hot days, partly because they tend to be less thirsty. If older people have problems with walking, they may not be able to get themselves enough water to drink. Older people who have urinary incontinence may drink less because they are worried about getting to a bathroom in time.

 

Many disorders, especially those that cause fever, vomiting, or diarrhea, can result in problems with water and electrolyte balance. These disorders may be short-lived (for example, pneumonia) or chronic (for example, kidney failure). Many drugs, especially diuretics, can also cause problems.

 

good posts Roland

[Roland]

It's great to go out and go hard in your exercise routine. Of course, sometimes the next day you're so stiff and sore, you can hardly move. Is it really a case of "no pain, no gain"?

What's Good For You tests six different ways of beating delayed onset muscle soreness — the pain that hits you the day after a tough workout.

The test

Why do we feel so bad after exercising, when we're told it's supposed to be good for us?

When we push ourselves physically, fibres in the muscles tear. The body's defence mechanism sends fluid into these areas, causing swelling. The swelling triggers pain receptors and you wake up stiff and sore.

Physiologist Dr Shona Halson works with top athletes at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra and says this is a good pain.

"Generally speaking, those muscle tears are a good thing," Dr Halson says. "What happens then is the muscle repairs itself and it repairs itself stronger. So you do get a really strong protective effect from doing a single bout of damaging exercise. Normally, you're protected for about six months."

James Brabon is the brains behind Bootcamp, a military style exercise program. He's going to give his class the mother of all workouts on a Sydney beach, to make sure they're good and sore tomorrow.

These six recruits will then each try a different method of beating the aches.

"It's going to shock their body a little bit," James says. "But that's what you need to do to really make them certain that they're going to get the delayed onset muscle soreness. And we know they've been training at a high intensity prior to this as well."

Method one to beat muscle ache starts before the exercise. Craig's been given compression garments and he'll wear them during and after training for as long as possible.

After the recruits make it through their harsh workout, they are given their muscle ache solutions.

Will's method, the second after Craig's compression garments, is to do nothing.

The third method involves heat and anti-inflammatory creams. Noreen is given two creams, a heat gel and an anti-inflammatory.

The fourth method is massage. Leanne will have a full body massage.

Method five is more exercise and stretching — Pria has to do more jogging tomorrow and a lot of stretching.

The last method is cold water. Wayne is sent for a cold swim in the surf, which is a bracing 17 degrees Celsius, to simulate the ice bath that some sports players have.

 

The results

Delayed muscle ache peaks anywhere between 24 and 48 hours after exercise.

At the halfway stage, Craig's taken his mission so seriously he's even slept in his compression skins.

"Using these has definitely helped," he says. "It feels like the blood has had the chance to flow the entire time."

"Twenty-four hours after, I still feel a little bit tight but probably not as bad as I usually do," says Wayne of his cold water therapy.

"I've done some walking around that I couldn't help, so my legs aren't as sore as I thought they would be, but the rest is fairly tight," reports Will, who didn't have any treatment.

Craig rates his pain level out of 10 as a five, as does Wayne. Will gives his pain a six.

Noreen has been busy rubbing in an anti-inflammatory cream on one side of her body and a heat gel on the other.

"Applying the heat cream makes me feel hot all over,"' she says. "In certain parts it gets quite stingy and quite uncomfortable. She rates her pain as a three.

Pria's been doing some gentle cardio and step exercises and says her pain level is a five.

"Initially when you get up you feel your muscles in bed going a little bit crazy but once you're up and get moving it gets the blood flowing, I think it's a good thing," she says.

After being blissed out on the massage table, Leanne says, "I could feel the muscles being massaged and it's helped. I feel relieved."

Leanne rates her pain as a five out of 10.

The girls are reporting lower pain levels than the boys, which either means they're fitter or braver.

Forty-eight hours later, the group do a series of exercises to see how much they hurt.

Will was told to do absolutely nothing and he's the biggest sufferer in the group. His pain rating has increased from a six to an eight — the highest of the group.

Craig's pain level increased from five after 24 hours to six after 48 but he felt it would have been an eight without the compression garments.

Wayne's icy dip left him at five after 24 hours and he also went up to six. He too felt the pain would have been worse without his treatment.

Noreen found no difference between the anti-inflammatory cream and the heat gel. Her pain rating stayed the same but was pretty low — three.

Pria's gentle exercise definitely helped. She went from a five to a three after 48 hours.

Leanne's massage was the measure that came out on top. Massage stretches the muscle and eases out toxins. Leanne's had her pain rating go from five to two.

 

Conclusion

 

In our test, massage was best, exercise and compression garments helped and so did the soothing creams. Resting was a definite no-no, with Will suffering the most.

At the Australian Institute of Sport Dr Shona Halson agrees that doing something after a big workout is better than nothing. She's a big fan of cold water therapy for elite athletes but there are simpler methods for us mere mortals.

"For the average person the most important things are nutrition and getting a good night's sleep, they're probably the two most important things," Dr Halson says. "The other thing they could do is go to the beach and do some walking through the water, especially if it's cold water; or go to the pool and do some kind of pool exercise as well."

It seems the biggest message is that once we've got ourselves off the couch, we have to stay off it or we'll suffer a lot more pain for our gain.

[weecunny]

i would say that a stiff bird is a bird thats over exerted its self and not been race fit have one at home tonight   if no better by wednesday it wont be here  

 

if bird no fit why kill it from where a am its ur falt it no fit lol

[REDCHEQHEN]

I've always got the birds out for a fly and a bath the day following a race as I believe exercise combats this

[Guest IB]

It's a long time since I had a workout.   But one of the things I learned about exercise was there is a phase before and after. You are supposed to 'warm up' to prepare your body, then do your thing, then 'warm down' to help your body recover, otherwise you suffer soreness and stiffness. I have 2 hours with the birds every morning before work when I'm constantly on the go, doing the same as others, cleaning, changing water etc; I then get washed & changed for work, sit 20 minutes on a bus, step off at the other end and think I'm walking with someone else's legs, because I can't seem to make them work right.

 

Thread also talks of muscle soreness, but muscles work joints, and for me, it's usually my knees that beat me. So would reckon it's both muscle and joint soreness in the pigeon too. There was a tip in BHW for joint soreness in humans, a cup of tea / water made with boiling water, tablespoonful of honey and teaspoonful of cider vinegar dissolved in it. I decided to try , then  adopted that in drinker on race day, , and as Redcheqhen posted, light exercise & bath following day , suppose could be termed as part of 'warm down' for pigeons, and I believe most fanciers do this.

[Guest Hjaltland]

Hi all

 

Who have encountered this phenomina with theire birds before?

Why does it happen?

Is there MUTI to counteract it?

 

 

Skull

 

Do you mean wing cramp? birds not able to fly after being in the basket?

[Roland]

Yes, I know quite a few that massage their birds wings after a race :-/ Yes some famous names at that.... and probably many famous names that time

[Guest LBuddle]

Magnesium cures cramping, after a stiff race stick a calcium & magnesium tablet down the birds throte. You can get them from Holland and barret shops.

Lee

[Skull Lofts]

 

Do you mean wing cramp? birds not able to fly after being in the basket?

 

no, birds are not able to fly after a hard training flight or race.

 

Skull

[Skull Lofts]

 

good posts Roland

 

thanks, i agree!!!

[Skull Lofts]

I've always got the birds out for a fly and a bath the day following a race as I believe exercise combats this

 

i even train them without any side effects and has never encountered this with my birds.

a fellow fancier told me that his birds got muscle bound, and i didnt know what he was talking about.

 

Skull

[Tony C]

A bad batch of maize? remember reading somewhere (think Spinsky wrote about it) that it could affect pigeons in this way

[jimmy white]

i cant see ive seen this b4 as muscle bound or cramp?

i know quinine is good for cramp,, but dont know if its good for pigeons,?? but muscle bound,, i havent seen , even after a hard race,, ive seen birds so tired they can barely fly,, but still able,, my thoughts on this , it could be due to a knock ? picking up a poison,, or even something more sinister,, i would hope its not the latter.

but pigeons like anything else, must get soreness , i suffer plenty ;D,, allthough on a lot of medication and injections, i find a bath is best for releif  

[Guest Owen]

Skull Lofts

LBundle has given you the answer in far fewer words than most of us. That is, of course assuming that your birds do not have an illness.

If I were you, I would definately make sure that there is fresh grit and minerals in front of them from now on.

[jimmy white]

Skull Lofts

LBundle has given you the answer in far fewer words than most of us. That is, of course assuming that your birds do not have an illness.

If I were you, I would definately make sure that there is fresh grit and minerals in front of them from now on.

 

with due respect owen, and finding all your posts exellent it sounds that in this posting you are assuming that grit and minerals have not been  in front of them, in the past,  :-/ in the thread , there is no mention of grit or minerals not been given to them, please dont take this the wrong way, as its certainly not meant to sound like that, , allthough, like you , i do believe  grit and minerals should be in front of them, all the time, but im now wondering if skull lofts have in fact given grit and minerals in the past ???

[weecunny]

never herd off this but after the clocks r read ma birds get open bowl til dark

[Skull Lofts]

Skull Lofts

LBundle has given you the answer in far fewer words than most of us. That is, of course assuming that your birds do not have an illness.

If I were you, I would definately make sure that there is fresh grit and minerals in front of them from now on.

 

you are not paying attention in the class my friend , its not my birds and i have never had it happened to my birds in the 18years i am flying.

A fellow fancier told me this and i did not know what he was talking about, i have never experienced this.

grit and minerals are only given once a week to my birds.

 

Skull