Guest stb Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Do not feed many peas and no beans at all do you mean you cant get healthy pigeons on beans thats given me a good laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D all my birds that have won well over the last 30 odd years must have been unwell all that time with me feedin them 50% beans and peas. many roads lead to rome owen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdog Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 won many channel races over the years just hopper fed beans . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well Rose you can laugh if you want, but I can assure you that unless you are breeding, actually rearing young, peas are of very limited good to the birds. Beans, no way Jose'. Now then a little test for you. Fill a hopper with a mixture with maple peas in it and see which grains the birds choose. Years ago a guy called The Old Hand started a craze for feeding beans. They were to be hopper fed and the bigger the better. The only stipulation was that they had to be well matured. Trapping was done with small seed and the birds had a treat of a calcium enriched suppliment a couple of times a week. Since then pigeon racing has changed dramatically. We now have yearlings doing distances, on the day, that could only be done by mature birds on the second day. Have a look at the results of the Classics and you may be surprised to see how many yearlings appear in the result. And believe me they did not do that with a purple breast brought on by feeding loads of protein. Another little test for you. Feed your YBs on a diet of no beans and peas for one week and see if it will change the way they exercise. Again you will be surprised. And for a bonus you can save yourself a small fortune on medication for YBS by reducing the protein right down. So have a laugh on me, all the way to the Bank. Lastly, when you have tried these ideas out, be honest enough to tell us all how you got on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well Rose you can laugh if you want, but I can assure you that unless you are breeding, actually rearing young, peas are of very limited good to the birds. Beans, no way Jose'. Now then a little test for you. Fill a hopper with a mixture with maple peas in it and see which grains the birds choose. Years ago a guy called The Old Hand started a craze for feeding beans. They were to be hopper fed and the bigger the better. The only stipulation was that they had to be well matured. Trapping was done with small seed and the birds had a treat of a calcium enriched suppliment a couple of times a week. Since then pigeon racing has changed dramatically. We now have yearlings doing distances, on the day, that could only be done by mature birds on the second day. Have a look at the results of the Classics and you may be surprised to see how many yearlings appear in the result. And believe me they did not do that with a purple breast brought on by feeding loads of protein. Another little test for you. Feed your YBs on a diet of no beans and peas for one week and see if it will change the way they exercise. Again you will be surprised. And for a bonus you can save yourself a small fortune on medication for YBS by reducing the protein right down. So have a laugh on me, all the way to the Bank. Lastly, when you have tried these ideas out, be honest enough to tell us all how you got on.there are yearling flying the distance 500 600 miles on day and still fed beans and peas, and when you get a sticky one there the ones that are normally there. Beans were being fed before old hand was born. quote ( Make sure you have a gentle flow of air throught he loft, exiting at ceiling or roof level. No draughts.) my lofts are wired on front from top to bottom with over hang to keep rain out. no drafts just force 10 gale at times. and they face north east. as i said many roads lead to room m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Jackson a hundred years ago was getting Yearling on second / 3rd day. Now I never did read what he fed them on. :-/ y/b's excell at over400 miles... maize, and small seeds. :-/ But I'm a great believer in a cup can over be filled to the brim.... and the rest passes through. Secondarily, they may know what they want and need to feed on - put a wide variety before them on clean floor and watch what they go for and eat first. Next day feed them only the top two... next day same again and their choice wll differ.... But they don't know what we have in store for them the next few coming days :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotboy Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 a use magic in water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 can any fanciers help with what i can use other than yogurt as a form of promoting good bacteria , is there a poultry product which can be used, via the drinker 2-3 times a week thanks I used to do yoghurt 3 times a week on the feed, once a month. I now use Flightpath, a product for pigeons, and find it much more convenient to use - one day a month. It can go in water or on feed, I still put it on the feed. Don't see the point of 2/3 times per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I used to do yoghurt 3 times a week on the feed, once a month. I now use Flightpath, a product for pigeons, and find it much more convenient to use - one day a month. It can go in water or on feed, I still put it on the feed. Don't see the point of 2/3 times per week. i use flightpath too im not to sure on how good it is but on reading about the product i havent seen many better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 stb, of course you are right. Pigeon Management has had all sorts of ideas over the years and I would be the first to say that when you find a method that works for you, you should stick to it. I have put forward some things that I know works not just for me but as lot of others also. Probably one of the most important things I have found is that I no longer have Young Bird Sickness. Some years ago I have known mornings when I have found birds dead on the floor. Other times I have had them sick and even when some of them survived they were never any good after their illness. I tried everything to control it, but never could keep it completely out of the loft. The frustrating thing was that, while this was going on, I would be winning races with the birds that had somehow escaped it. During that time I tried all the various probiotics, yogurt and anything else I could think of, including lots of antibiotics. Then the penny dropped. I will not repeat myself again here, but the steps I took did two things. It got rid of the dreaded Sickness and the birds became healthier and fitter. In my own life, I have always enjoyed a jolly good beef steak and ate a lot of top quality red meat. It was my Mother who first made me think, she believed that too much red meat was a poison. I did not take much notice when I was younger but I now believe she was right. Protein definately has a place in any diet but you can have too much of a good thing for both man and beast(bird). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkins Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 my ybs are on 1 part barley, half part wheat, half pellets , half best all round very light diet , so far so good flying and handling better than the last couple of years johnny gilbert of droden weans his babies or did wean onto 75% barley read in in a old loft report chris gorden feed 100% most of the year unless rearing right up to 2 weeks prior to the birds chosen water race program the barcelona lofts of john mcgee ybs are fed on low protein beyers corn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 has to be one of the weirdest threads yet owen well your test you say my first round of youngones were weaned off on beans peas and tears march 21st mate 5 weeks ago they were taking off and weaned to there race mix the birds are shocking looking the quality second to none not one sick feed split in the morning and evening this way they digest easy and dont struggle a lot of fanciers over do it feeding babys if you left a child in a candy store how long befor they get sick ?now back to the point i was making my second round babys were weaned off the b,p,t after 3 weeks differnt birds in every way shape,maturity,life the body wasn there the goodness wasn there we had to put the goodness back into the food and birds which was b,p,t differnt birds now we have our own corn company and i think i know a fair bit about this .plus i know a hell off a lot of people using deep litter and do not fly as good as a clean loft mate for example cocci can live in deep litter for 2 years lads you think you have treated for it and its k 3 weeks later its back why because its alive in the deep litter the build up of feather dust infected droppings is not good just because its dry means nothing dr rob marshall is a fantasic vet and pigeon man and i think his knows a little more than us boys . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie1 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 magic in the water 7 days a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 do we have the same witch doctor ritchie ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 ..........i think i know a fair bit about this .plus i know a hell off a lot of people using deep litter and do not fly as good as a clean loft mate for example cocci can live in deep litter for 2 years lads you think you have treated for it and its k 3 weeks later its back why because its alive in the deep litter the build up of feather dust infected droppings is not good just because its dry means nothing dr rob marshall is a fantasic vet and pigeon man and i think his knows a little more than us boys . Setting deep litter aside, every loft floor dressing has the same basic principle, no matter what the active ingredient(s) the main principle is that all life on earth needs moisture - water - to survive; dry it out and it dies. Loft floor dressings dry-out & kill first , poison & kill second. You should not need to treat for cocci - you should have built up a natural immunity to it in your birds. All Vets tell you constant exposure to low levels help the bird to develop that natural immunity. Health without drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 yes and all vets tell you your birds shouln have orgasims in there system they will perfom a lot better with out them at one stage i thought a certain amount was needed or normal its not true we were giving a product to wipe out the cocci we done it microscope tested befor and after no signs of one cocci egg that pigeon was 7th national this year and that was done a week before the race since then we won another 4 should have 5 so ill take my vets advice and good luck to yours . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock3 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I used to do yoghurt 3 times a week on the feed, once a month. I now use Flightpath, a product for pigeons, and find it much more convenient to use - one day a month. It can go in water or on feed, I still put it on the feed. Don't see the point of 2/3 times per week. did it improve ur results ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 did it improve ur results ? That's a hard one to answer. I have changed quite a lot in the last 3 years. As well as going over to flightpath 3 years ago, I have changed my targets & levels (what I expect the birds to do by age, and in what competition - SNFC) and also brought in new pigeons with those aims in mind. 3 years ago I wouldn't get pigeons from 300 mile races, now I do - all my yearlings have done 333, 375 (Fed) or 399 this year, with one home tonight from 449 miles, still waiting on the other; 2 yo's go to 500+ miles, this is my first year at that & fell at the post with my 1st race, my single entry is just home this morning, a week late from Alencon; still waiting on 2 from today's Andrezel race. I also see flightpath as a natural health product. The 'result' I wanted in using it is that I want ZERO sickness in my birds, and that's what I have achieved - I've never had YBS, canker, cocci or any of the diseases that crop up regularly on the forum. I get the birds checked out by a vet at the back-end of the season, and if anything shows up, they get treated for it. Other than that, no meds here. Incidently, last year they came back with a very high cocci count - my vet was surprised they didn't have the disease (coccidiosis). These birds were winning in the showpen at the time, that and the result that they didn't have the disease proves correct health management: result - the birds are immune to coccidiosis, the disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 high cocci count means the birds had cocci which means they are not immune mate it means they needed to be treated a plus 2 cocci count is fine plus 5 is a high cocci count any stress factor could have brought on a problem the product i used eliminated the cocci and left a very respected vet puzzeled how it was managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch pied Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 PIGEON LORE , a book written by NEILSON HUTTON sometime late 70's . 1 chapter was devoted to deep litter ,( ie ) powdered dropping's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 you said it the late 70s a lot has changed for crying out loud . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 high cocci count means the birds had cocci which means they are not immune mate it means they needed to be treated a plus 2 cocci count is fine plus 5 is a high cocci count any stress factor could have brought on a problem the product i used eliminated the cocci and left a very respected vet puzzeled how it was managed. think what he means is that they had a high cocci count but did not look unwell so the vet was maybe supprised. some birds can tolerate more than others. also cocci is not a disease4 its a parasite. some birds can thrive well with it others cant and the first sighn of stress and there not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch pied Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 you said it the late 70s a lot has changed for crying out loud .first used a treatment for cocci & canker 1982 after we brought in bird's from holland that had a pharmacutial crutch under them,,,before that only ever treated for worms . now in the med cupboard i have stuff that will kill dead thing's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 i know exactly that because our widowhood cocks looked fantastic but didn perform the first two races then i tested them there cocci count was high so we were giving a product to eliminate it as you do we tried it brought samples to the vet because after testing them 4 days later i couldn belive what i was seeing so second opion the vet said the same and his very words were im puzzeled there is not one cocci egg but healty birds dont have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwards Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 well you want to ask your self questions then as in why do you have them products ?we have cocci treatment,canker,worm,nystain liquid,and doxy .erverything else natural my uncle has the one family of birds 25 years and the only time he had to cull birds when they stopped filling eggs or badly injured so why is it people have hundreds of pounds in meds and stuff they dont even know what there doing with. lose birds from sickness loft management,carrier birds well thats down to loft managment or just a nice lad that took some one elses word the birds are fine the end line of this is there our property our responsability we maintain there homes there health there fitness and we protect them with vaccines suited to keep them right so they dont fall ill and thats down to us know one else . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 well you want to ask your self questions then as in why do you have them products ?we have cocci treatment,canker,worm,nystain liquid,and doxy .erverything else natural my uncle has the one family of birds 25 years and the only time he had to cull birds when they stopped filling eggs or badly injured so why is it people have hundreds of pounds in meds and stuff they dont even know what there doing with. lose birds from sickness loft management,carrier birds well thats down to loft managment or just a nice lad that took some one elses word the birds are fine the end line of this is there our property our responsability we maintain there homes there health there fitness and we protect them with vaccines suited to keep them right so they dont fall ill and thats down to us know one else .ed what were you replying to./???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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