Medicines

[dwh]

 

 

as i keep saying people, your birds are ok when in your own loft but as soon as they start to mix with others, ie, training and the race basket thats when you see all the nasties rearing there ugly heads so in my mind prevention is a lot better than cure plus a lot of top fanciers say they dont treat for this and that dont tell the truth because if they dont treat for prevention this day and age they wouldnt be at the top for long

 

thats what i have been trying to say im not condoning the use of drugs willy nilly but a sensible approach  and management of a racing pigeon loft

[Guest IB]

Why would 2 of the Cocks go down which had previously scored prior to being paired with this Hen.

 

I think it is too easy to blame some illness or disease for anything that goes wrong. Winning pigeons do get lost, and winning pigeons don't always breed winners themselves.

 

I'm not 100% on what you said about canker and carrier either. 'Carrier' can mean different things, the one most talked about on the forum means 'a single bird carrying a deadly disease which that single bird is immune to, but which can infect and kill other birds it comes into contact with'. Yes there are a few 'deadly' strains of canker which can kill a pigeon. But there are many more 'mild' strains of canker which cannot kill a pigeon. It is these mild strains that pigeons as a species are said to be carriers (of) - low, background levels, and they are there for a purpose. They do not normally cause illness in pigeon species. What they do is fettle the birds immune system giving them immunity to the 'deadlier' strains.

 

And in the predator / prey scenario, they serve another function. 'Eat me & die'. Only the pigeon has immunity to these mild strains. No other bird has. The pigeon is a prey species. Anything that preys upon it risks an infection to which it has no immunity, and it will die of the disease.

 

 

 

[showman]

hi, i have to say  with all the dvd s, the web sites , books & what others say in the bhw  it is not always easy to see the tree in the wood s    maybe  we are making the pigeons  hard to keep then they really are  ,  jon

 

Herein lies wisdom.

[Guest kev d]

another problem you have got is keeping to many birds that brings problems on its self

breeding off unproven stock with fancy names .

ive been through all my team 3 weeks ago 10 went straight away just not up to my standards now down to 28

birds i could have given them away but if there not up to sratch no one gets them , im not saying there was any thing

wrong with them there was,nt but if you know your birds like i do they had to go .

if every one did this instead of just breeding off every thing you would have a lot less problems .

let the basket sort them out .

[Guest kev d]

another problem you have got is keeping to many birds that brings problems on its self

breeding off unproven stock with fancy names .

ive been through all my team 3 weeks ago 10 went straight away just not up to my standards now down to 28

birds i could have given them away but if there not up to sratch no one gets them , im not saying there was any thing

wrong with them there was,nt but if you know your birds like i do they had to go .

if every one did this instead of just breeding off every thing you would have a lot less problems .

let the basket sort them out .

printing error the birds i got rid of had nothing wrong with them just not up to sratch

 

 

[Skull Lofts]

 

 

as i keep saying people, your birds are ok when in your own loft but as soon as they start to mix with others, ie, training and the race basket thats when you see all the nasties rearing there ugly heads so in my mind prevention is a lot better than cure plus a lot of top fanciers say they dont treat for this and that dont tell the truth because if they dont treat for prevention this day and age they wouldnt be at the top for long

100% right! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

Your birds may have the best IMMUNITY in your own loft without MEDS, but come racing season, and you dont treat them with MEDS, for the other birs they mixed with, which even had the greatest IMMUNITY in there own loft, you just wont make it!

 

Every loft has its own IMMUNITY, mix 3 different lofts birds together witout any MEDS for a period and all of them wil be sick in a short time!

 

Skull

 

[Guest kev d]

if you get birds from other lofts you don,t mix them for at least a month

i got 3 old birds from navigator kept them on there own for a month now there mixing

with mine no problems and no meds . that was 2 months ago

[WulDon]

i think some are missing a wee point here, some lofts are not treating because there pigeons are sick but purely using some form of medication to enhance racing abilities... nothing wrong with that if you have that kind of knowledge... lets face it most top lofts throughout the UK are using something that gets those extra few yards a minute on a race day!

 

back to basics, try feeding your birds tic beans and fresh water these days and i'm quite sure bitter dissapointment will follow on a saturday.

 

if a pigeon falls sick then knock it on the head??, if one your family contracted the flu virus  would you be so keen to knock them on the head, i think not!

 

i always believe in giving a pigeon one chance and one chance only to make a recovery and this is purely based on my own findings.

 

in 2007 i purchased a blue cock at the SNFC YB sale, he was introduced to my YB loft... after a few weeks he went light and almost skeletol whilst all my YB team remained perfectly healthy, he wasnt isolated as i believe this only knocks them back further and like young children if you are going to have a problem, let them all have it (nursery scenario).

 

i mixed up some baytril in a small jar, the blue cock was syringed 2ml twice per day down the throat... after 7 days the pigeon bounced back.

 

as a YB he flew the programme 204 miles, as a yearling he went right down to Eastbourne 418 miles and scored 1st Club, 7th Fed, 11th Combine, 27th Sect., 82nd Open SNFC, this year as a 2yo he once again went to Eastbourne then over to Falaise winning 4th Club, 13th Fed. 541 miles.

 

i realise this is probably a one off but fanciers shouldnt be to ready to pull out the 'black bag' when a pigeon looks a bit off, with todays knowledge and medication i'm sure most pigeons could be put right, ask yourself one question... how many times have we been to the docs with a complaint that required a prescription drug?

[dwh]

i think some are missing a wee point here, some lofts are not treating because there pigeons are sick but purely using some form of medication to enhance racing abilities... nothing wrong with that if you have that kind of knowledge... lets face it most top lofts throughout the UK are using something that gets those extra few yards a minute on a race day!

 

back to basics, try feeding your birds tic beans and fresh water these days and i'm quite sure bitter dissapointment will follow on a saturday.

 

if a pigeon falls sick then knock it on the head??, if one your family contracted the flu virus  would you be so keen to knock them on the head, i think not!

 

i always believe in giving a pigeon one chance and one chance only to make a recovery and this is purely based on my own findings.

 

in 2007 i purchased a blue cock at the SNFC YB sale, he was introduced to my YB loft... after a few weeks he went light and almost skeletol whilst all my YB team remained perfectly healthy, he wasnt isolated as i believe this only knocks them back further and like young children if you are going to have a problem, let them all have it (nursery scenario).

 

i mixed up some baytril in a small jar, the blue cock was syringed 2ml twice per day down the throat... after 7 days the pigeon bounced back.

 

as a YB he flew the programme 204 miles, as a yearling he went right down to Eastbourne 418 miles and scored 1st Club, 7th Fed, 11th Combine, 27th Sect., 82nd Open SNFC, this year as a 2yo he once again went to Eastbourne then over to Falaise winning 4th Club, 13th Fed. 541 miles.

 

i realise this is probably a one off but fanciers shouldnt be to ready to pull out the 'black bag' when a pigeon looks a bit off, with todays knowledge and medication i'm sure most pigeons could be put right, ask yourself one question... how many times have we been to the docs with a complaint that required a prescription drug?

 

a point proven medication used to cure a sick bird

me and strapper had this discussion and strapper's point is still valid correctly used and not abused will make sure your birds are healthy not drugged up to perform better but to perform to the best of there ability  

[Wizzer]

I think theres alot out there who think they know whats best to give a bird, however none of us really know what its doing to the birds inside whether its good or long term bad.

I treat twice a year for worms, Every youngster is given a canker tablet once its weaned, after that nothing is given, if they become ill they are isolated and given fresh water and food, If no improvement they are finished for good and no longer a problem.

Fit and healthy birds shouldn't need this and that, to help it stay healthy, its not natural and this practice wasn't experienced in the 70`s and 80`s and back then there wasn't youngbird sickness around and didn't need to vaccinate each year before 1983. and fly aways were no way as common as they are today.  

[whiteknight]

I think theres alot out there who think they know whats best to give a bird, however none of us really know what its doing to the birds inside whether its good or long term bad.

I treat twice a year for worms, Every youngster is given a canker tablet once its weaned, after that nothing is given, if they become ill they are isolated and given fresh water and food, If no improvement they are finished for good and no longer a problem.

Fit and healthy birds should`nt need this and that, to help it stay healthy, its not natural and this practice was`nt experienced in the 70`s and 80`s and back then there was`nt youngbird sickness around and did`nt need to vaccinate each year before 1983. and fly aways were no way as common as they are today.  

:-/ AND PLEASE TELL US WHATS NATURAL ABOUT RACING PIGEONS.AND BY THE WAY IT WAS EXPERIENCED IN THE 70's 80's ONLY BY A FEW .

 

 

[Wizzer]

AND PLEASE TELL US WHATS NATURAL ABOUT RACING PIGEONS.AND BY THE WAY IT WAS EXPERIENCED IN THE 70's 80's ONLY BY A FEW

 

You said it. Experienced by only a few!

[Guest cloudview]

im sure half the fanciers in the uk are hypercondriacts  , spelt wrong i know .

and would love to have a family of birds that dont need somthing every other week ,

truth of the matter is they dont want to treat ,       they have to

[Guest strapper]

medications prevent and cure and ease diseases they dont cause them!

diseases were around long b4 medications were availlible ,today a lot more is known about diseases and thats why you hear more about them .

if you think diseases of birds was not around long ago, how did the birdman of alcatraz write a best seller on their diseases!!..that was many moons ago.

 

this arguement comes up every other week and there is always two sides to each arguement.

one thing we cant argue about, is that without medications in todays society we would be burying more and more of loved ones in our families.

so lets not be too ready to knock medications and try to understand how and when they are to be used.

if you choose not to use them then fine,but dont knock the next guy who decides to use them.

what i do find is how many i know who have stated they dont use meds ,but find they have visited the vet and have their birds on treatment..as if using meds is breaking rules.

[Guest strapper]

one more thing..i use meds(only when needed)..in 2009 youngbirds..besides the vaccination i did not treat my youngbirds for anything..reason......didnt have too.

i only raced 3 youngbird races which i won all 3.

there is a belief that those that use meds use them all the time.....WRONG!

[Guest cloudview]

strapper , im not knocking any one who wants to go down that path, but its not for me ,

mine get cankered  and wormed once year thats it apart from the yearly jab .

also i cant see how giving birds any treatment thats not needed will prevent them from getting

an illness , example worm one week , they will still pick it up the next week , its like a rollercoaster , where does it all end

[Guest strapper]

strapper , im not knocking any one who wants to go down that path, but its not for me ,

mine get cankered  and wormed once year thats it apart from the yearly jab .

also i cant see how giving birds any treatment thats not needed will prevent them from getting

an illness , example worm one week , they will still pick it up the next week , its like a rollercoaster , where does it all end

 

sorry m8 i didnt reply to your post because mine was after yours lol

its just i was writing it at that time  

 

i dont treat blindly....but then again we all do come to think about it..pmv vaccination.

im very careful how and when i use medications and ive been studying it for a long while now...they say you learn by your mistakes..well i should be a genius then 8) because ill admit ive made many in the past...but one thing i learned is never be afraid to alter your ways ...it sometimes will surprise you.

 

 

[Guest gladdo]

well its all down to the fancier in total...if he buys a bird from the wrong bad breeder its his mistake and if he is threating and overdozing when a problem occure it will only make things worst .... all about man management with birds...i blame myself if birds dont do well ... i always say what did i not prepare right and im always learning so i would be considered as doing something right id imagine ... hope this helps ... healthy birds will only compete at the top week in week out im sure of that !!!! mikey dublin , ireland ,,,,,

[rob09]

dont treat stock unless u bring in new birds why all this medicine every year racers yes because ther mixing if u dont u wont be on top simple

[leighton1984]

how come in some places that do not have all the drugs they no not have all the problems that get posted up all the time on forums.

[Guest frank dooman]

 

 

as i keep saying people, your birds are ok when in your own loft but as soon as they start to mix with others, ie, training and the race basket thats when you see all the nasties rearing there ugly heads so in my mind prevention is a lot better than cure plus a lot of top fanciers say they dont treat for this and that dont tell the truth because if they dont treat for prevention this day and age they wouldnt be at the top for long

 

spot on iam not going to say any more on this subject every one to ther own yes i treat blind it works for me so i will continue to do so and dont believe all the big boys tell you they do all treat!!!! it allways amaises me when you listen to thease top fanciers who constantly tell every one the old spud ( i only use clean water and good food ) My pants the next week they are phoneing me to ask for this and that yes things have changed 200% if you want to be left behind dont treat lets all put up our results over the last 3 years and also state if you treat or not but remember you have to tell the truth!!!!!!!!!

[Roland]

We also up to 1963 have decent cold winters. The 'R' in the month cleanse and cured a lot. Natures way.

[jimmy white]

never seemed to have all the diseases back in the sixties and seventys when i first started all they used to get was tic beans when my dad could afford them or corn and barley i got from the docks (lol nicked from silos) fresh water and grit in 10 yrs only had 1 bird go down sick which was disposed of straight away .  we never had all these forien imports that i feel have been propped up with all these so called medications and do we really know if they actually work . obviously  we feed better grains now but mainly i still just good fresh clean water clean feed and fresh grit and weed out any sickly birds which i havent had many . i dont clean out every day as i believe very strongly in natural immunity and plenty of fresh air  they survive perfectly well in the wild without bein locked up in closed lofts. jmo but i feel there is much to much medicatin goin on its gettin time for fanciers i feel to start going back to basics ie if they sick dispose of them and let the birds get there immune system to work. i know alot of u are not going to agree i dont want to start ne arguments as ive said its jmo of how i see the sport declining as in any new starters get told treat for this and treat for that and that puts them off right from the word go as alot cannot afford all these medications  jmo

 

an excellent post, which i agree with entirely,

 

i can never get my head round" the nowadays"  factor in treating  blindly :-/ most fanciers i speak to nowadays , have a  programme of treatments,," cocci  at that time", followed by" canker at that time" ,followed by " worming at that time" ,etc. etc.  off course these are cures,, not preventatives,,, so, how can one possibly know, their cocci level is high" at that time", the canker level higher" at that time" etc etc  etc,, and the other one",im giving them anti-biotics  just to make sure their ok" again these anti-biotics are cures, not preventatives, my thoughts are as above, by doing this continually, we are now breeding pigeons with less constitution, less immunity, and giving more money than ever b4 to the so-called suppliers,,,,often needlessly  , powders and potions which are completely useless,  hyped up by adverts,,,,,,,,,, a good dry loft with good ventilation and clean water ,without propped up birds,,, fanciers laugh at that now as though it was  outdated,, but while they are laughing, the suppliers are laughing louder, and the birds are weakening faster and faster over the years,, i very much doubt if fanciers  can  go " back to basics" now,  as its  taken  years of medications to get to this stage,, and would take many more years of immunity" build up"  to get" back to basics",,my opinion only

 

on budgies post [which ive slightly deviated from] a vet saying that a pigeon is a carrier of canker is odd ,,as  they all are,, all pigeons will have some level of trichimoniasis [canker],[and theres many different types] its only when this level rises to an extent that makes the pigeon ill, it is troublesome, and although an excellent and outstanding  pigeon without a doubt, by no means says it will breed   winners , with any cock, unfortunately,,, again, only my opinion  [but who knows of the grandchildren of this bird ]

[Guest strapper]

jimmy ,this could be looked at in a different way...because of fanciers years ago not treating,maybe this is the reason why we have too treat so much these days?

when diseases were around years ago,because of the lack of treatment to eradicate these diseases,could it be said ,these diseases evolved and we are now suffering because of this.

just like the swine flu is looked upon to be changing..evolution does this.

another problem that no one seems to be hitting on...breeding too close to the root...ie brother sister mating...its a well known fact that pedigree dogs are prone to certain illneses while mongerels are not!...why you may ask..well could it be that these genes are too close because of line breeding and pedigrees, which is weakening the imune system .

 

close breeding in humans is prone to defects in looks and metallity...even severe health problems.

so without using medications these problems exist in nature and has been going on for many many years.

so are we too quick to jump on the band wagon and blame medications totally for the health problems we all seem to hear of?..i think so!

 

now how many pedigrees reveal close breeding especially abroad ie belgium/holland and germany etc.

a lot of top birds are mated back to one section of the family...which in theory may hide a lethal gene.

what surprises me is that a lot of the old fanciers experimented with products to find a cure for this and that...one thing in mind is the end of a match to scrape away canker...the end with sulphur on it...now why do these same fanciers knock medications sulphur based?..after all it was their disscovery that maybe aided these labs to make these meds.

so to end my post i will say this...before completely discounting meds as a way forward..step back in time and see that some of these man made meds were already in use back in them days.

 

 

[jimmy white]

jimmy ,this could be looked at in a different way...because of fanciers years ago not treating,maybe this is the reason why we have too treat so much these days?

when diseases were around years ago,because of the lack of treatment to eradicate these diseases,could it be said ,these diseases evolved and we are now suffering because of this.

just like the swine flu is looked upon to be changing..evolution does this.

another problem that no one seems to be hitting on...breeding too close to the root...ie brother sister mating...its a well known fact that pedigree dogs are prone to certain illneses while mongerels are not!...why you may ask..well could it be that these genes are too close because of line breeding and pedigrees, which is weakening the imune system .

 

close breeding in humans is prone to defects in looks and metallity...even severe health problems.

so without using medications these problems exist in nature and has been going on for many many years.

so are we too quick to jump on the band wagon and blame medications totally for the health problems we all seem to hear of?..i think so!

 

now how many pedigrees reveal close breeding especially abroad ie belgium/holland and germany etc.

a lot of top birds are mated back to one section of the family...which in theory may hide a lethal gene.

what surprises me is that a lot of the old fanciers experimented with products to find a cure for this and that...one thing in mind is the end of a match to scrape away canker...the end with sulphur on it...now why do these same fanciers knock medications sulphur based?..after all it was their disscovery that maybe aided these labs to make these meds.

so to end my post i will say this...before completely discounting meds as a way forward..step back in time and see that some of these man made meds were already in use back in them days.

 

 

hi strapper although i do agree definitely there is more inbreeding to-day than of yesteryear, and most definitely  this could also be a factor,, lack of   the hybrid vigour,, , but again in days gone by    pigeons were still inbred, [probably to a lesser extent than now] but the main point being, that any ailing bird was suppressed , i believe nowadays   that many inexperienced  fanciers pay  far too much  money for pigeons, thinking its the way to success,   and will try and save a lack lustre yb   just because its bred from such and such, ,, but a great post strapper,, nice to have a constructive debate about  the birds