Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[Wiley]

Time to introduce another yet important point for debate, reading from material supplied on these threads and referring to many of the Vetrinary Books, Paratyphus copenhagen var is classified as an bacterial infection and not a disease nor a virus.We know from our Vets

that you cannot prescribe medication / drugs for the treatment of a Virus because of the many changes it permentates within itself. You

can however give treatment against an bacterial infection, you can also give medication to control disesases. So why does Henk De Weerdt

state on his dvd, that in his opinion it does not give good results if you inject against paratyphus using a vaccine. His recommendation is to

treat with "parastop" (does he take this line because his company do not produce a vaccine against paratyphus?).

An interesting thread again, with many different lines of thought, we have debated this subject earlier in the Autumn and for what its worth

I was introduced to the Vaccination against paratyhoid, 2 years ago by a top flyer and believe me if you heard what information he told me

as regards the UK situation, you would all be vaccinating and demand would outstrip supply of paratyhoid vaccines.

My birds have been done again in November and are all happily sitting, and so is the DOG outside the lofts.

 

Surprising, i havent seen the dvd with deweerdt, but last time i spoke to him he suggest that everyone should vaccinate there old and young. Young birds had no need to be treated before hand he suggested, but old birds should have a course of parastop, baytrill or cosumix plus!

[Guest Vic]

Hi Guys! I will keep all the interested parties, as to whether I have aminisitered the right treatment. Which so far looks like I have. Apart, fom having more eggs broken than I can recall in previous tears,  (mis-type!  Is stet the word?) by two  crazy  yearling cocks, that can count their blessings that Vic must be mellowing. But the hatchings of those that are left, have so far been 100%. and the colouring of their down and skin, is spot on. I will be ringing about twenty tomorrow. But as I say! So far so good. The weaning will be the deciding factor.  Cheers, Vic.        

[pigeonscout]

 

Vic, with Vita Pro Combo Mike Ganus has produced a combination of probiotics, electrolytes, vitamins and amino acids. It will be helpful for your birds, but I cannot say whether or not the probiotics are avian specific as is PrimaLac. It will probably do the job for you.

 

I have been using Vita Pro from syndicate lofts for 12 years now and would not be without it. You can order it at http://www.syndicatelofts.com/

[Roland]

Any way, back to the question 'Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped'?  Quite simple No, of course not.

[dwh]

don't really know but if you believe  all the hype FLIGHTPATH is the more natural preventitive

[Reeco]

the only thing that wll stop Paratyphoid is Baytril 10 days on Baytril then multivitimins Reeco Swansea

[Guest Owen]

If the birds have actually got paratyphoid, as Reeco says, 10 days on Baytril will get rid of it. Then you have to repair the damage that Baytril will have done. It will have killed off all the bacteria in the bird, good and bad.

The bird needs to recolonise it's gut with the beneficial bacteria as quickly as possible. That is why it needs to be fed vitamins and probiotics for up to a week.

Just as with humans, the use of antibiotics can be followed by a heavy yeast infection. It is well worth having a swab test done to make sure that this has not happened. The two most useful things to use to counteract the yeast, I have found, are garlic juice and aqueous iodine.

If you want to vaccinate, the time to do it is after the ten day treatment on Baytril. The birds will be clear of the disease and the vacciations will have the maximum effect. Allow 3 days after the Baytril has finished  before the vaccination.    

[dwh]

at this moment baytril is the latest cure all it  treats the problem of p/t  but dos'nt cure it the recommended way is to vaccinate with live vacine after a 10 treatment of anti-biotics and this is still a 12 monthly repeat so the question is can u cure paratyphiod?

[Guest IB]

at this moment baytril is the latest cure all it  treats the problem of p/t  but dos'nt cure it the recommended way is to vaccinate with live vacine after a 10 treatment of anti-biotics and this is still a 12 monthly repeat so the question is can u cure paratyphiod?

 

I think the man best placed to answer that one is Vic, who started this thread. Distinct lack of feedback what happened to his racing & breeding lofts this year after he put his birds through the treatments last year, which had been recommended. Don't think he has birds now [not sure on that though] so maybes others can fill in the blank spaces????

[dwh]

flying with my mate 3 yrs now, last year was 1st time we vac gainst p/t got our 1st win and scored more points tha las 2 yrs don't know wether vac ha anything to do with it but sure it helped. b4 i started flying  my m8  vaccinated b4 treating long enough  with anti's

the result is'nt very plesant.

[Reeco]

so does anyone actually know how the birds perform the following year after the disease and they have been treated with baytril?

[pjc]

so does anyone actually know how the birds perform the following year after the disease and they have been treated with baytril?

 

no reason birds given a course of baytril will not perform equaly as well if not better the following year but more important is the after care!

My question would be if you suspect p/t and you treat with Baytril to cure the problem and give the muti vits/probiotics afterwards is there any point in vaccinating as you are then giving yourself an annual programme to follow?

[pigeonscout]

Protective effects of vaccines against experimental salmonellosis in racing pigeons

E Uyttebroek, LA Devriese, D Gevaert, R Ducatelle, J Nelis, and F Haesebrouck

Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium.

 

 

 

Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis.

 

 

[gk lofts]

paratyphoid needs to be treated with baytrol dispose of any suspisious birds and vacinate you can get a cheap kit if u say its for chickens £75 to treat 1000 birds it will cost 10 times that if u say its for pigeons and it spreads like fire the birds brain swells up and even though the swelling goes down they r never the same and could be carriers

[Guest philb40]

a local fancier ha shad the misfortune to get paratyphoid in his loft and his birds are dropping like flies even using baytril hasnt helped.

this flier is on a communal plot with six lofts v close by. I think that he has kissed this season goodbye .

I read on another site, USA forum , i think that you can get pellets (he said weaning pellets ) that contain sal bac , has anybody heard of this as the other fliers are understandably nervous .

They dont want to start vaccination with young in the nest because i believe it can knock them back for a few days.

 

Before anyone asks i cannot remember what site it was so cannot ask them, bugger!!

Thanks in advance.

PS ordered SAL BAC for my young birds , another expense!!

[Guest philb40]

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/paratyphoid-disease-and-the-vaccine-12461.html

 

Found the site some interesting reading on this link.

[David048]

Paratyphoid is also called Salmonellosis. It’s a common and widespread disease caused by a gram-negative bacterium which is flagellated and, therefore, mobile. It can be brought into a loft through introduction of infected pigeons, by rodents, through inhalation of infected dust, on the soles of fancier’s shoes, by roaches, or through contact with wild pigeons. Often, and adult bird that has overcome the disease remains a carrier and continues to emit infected droppings.

 

Symptoms of Paratyphoid are varied, because Salmonella flagellates can be found throughout the body in severely infected birds. Most adult birds will show rapid weight loss, along with somewhat loose, greenish droppings. Some birds may develop swelling in the leg joints or feet, or they may develop wing boils. Other birds may have the “twisted neck†syndrome commonly associated with PMV. Baby birds will often die in the nest before the second week after hatching and may show labored breathing. Another symptom is young dying in the egg.

 

To prevent Paratyphoid, maintaining loft hygiene is critical, since salmonella flagellates can live in the droppings of pigeons for some time. Regular cleaning and disinfecting of lofts, feeders, and drinkers are imperative. Minimizing contact with rodents, roaches, and wild birds is as important as quarantining newly acquired birds. Maintaining an acid pH level below 4.0 in the loft is also helpful in keeping Paratyphoid under control. Several veterinarians have recommended the use of Nolvasan at one teaspoon per gallon of drinking water regularly to help maintain an acidic environment in the droppings. Regular use of the Salmonella vaccine has proven to be especially effective.

 

What should a fancier know about Paratyphoid?

click on the link on my signature - it's full of this type of information and loads more

 

Learn the champions secret winning pigeon racing formula click here to learn more.

[greenlands]

Good reading Phil,have copied for future reference and to read again ,make sure the brain cells absord it all.

Thanks

Lindsay.

[Guest bigda]

so every kid  who has had salmonella poison, is  not going to be able to have a family as   is there sons will be carriers  what crap.  time is the healer for all ailments. and having the time to  separate  the sick to cure,  but in the pigeon game we don't have hospitals in our sheds  so necking is easier  

[glenrandal]

reading through this thread looks like this is very serious and because of all the so called carriers of the disease is it safe to put pigeons into panniers on race day and risk getting my birds infected?

[Guest philb40]

the general idea i get from reading several articles is that to eradicate salmonella from your loft completely including carriers takes a long time up to 3 years BUT just because you have a carrier does not mean that your loft will be infected only if the conditions are suitable for bacterial explosion  . for exampe, wet floors and bad ventilation or overcrowding , all these we try to avoid anyway.

A good friend of mine also a top racer , is good friends with the herbert bros  and as you might they know a bit about pigeons lol .

Well he seams to imply that there are salmonella bacteria that may be specific to your loft and your birds may have some resistance to that strain but that strain only .If you bring in another bird from outside your team then that bird may carry a strain that your birds are susceptable to.

It was also suggested that the main danger is when the birds are under stress ie Breeding , late return from racing, then if your birds pick up the bacteria it weakens the immune system and this in turn opens the door for every other sickness to flair upand this is ultimately the reason for so many deaths.

It is common knowledge that if you test humans almost all carry e coli in the gut and strep in the throat but it doesnt mean that you are going to go full blown with the sickness once again the circumstances have to be right.

 

This year i am going to inject with sal bac young birds only and then i will do my entire loft at the end of the season - better safe than sorry.

[Guest philb40]

On the subject of baytril - if you treat with this then it is a must that you give the birds a fungal treatment ,Nystan is the best i have found (human ). I treat my young birds with it as a matter of course .Mr A Pearson my vet who specialises in poultry and game birds says that after any antibiotics the gut is nearly always attacked with candida (thrush).If you ask your mrs if she has had antibiotics then you almost always have to visit the chemist for canestan=- thrush cream , our pigeons are the same.

If you cannot get Nystan then you can use vinegar ,cider vinegar is my choice, but you must ensure that the ph is at least 5 , any higher then  it makes little difference and is of no real use.

Cider vinegar at this level makes the droppings acid and this can help stop the explosion of salmonella as it dislikes an acid environment.

[pigeonscout]

Baytril has been shown to get rid of the carrier state of salmonella so you no longer must destroy infected birds.

[Guest IB]

Cider Vinegar acidity (pH) level is 5 to 7. Lemon Juice 2.5 to 3. Orange juice around 3.8. The US FDA lists the pH range of Florida orange juice as 3.30 to 4.15.

 

Orange juice products may be contaminated

 

Jul 13, 2005 10:16 AM, from staff and wire reports

 

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued a nationwide warning to consumers against drinking unpasteurized orange juice products distributed under various brand names by Orchid Island Juice Co of Fort Pierce FL, because they could be contaminated with Salmonella Typhimurium.

To date, 15 cases of a matching strain of illness directly linked to a history of consumption of Orchid Island Juice have been reported from mid-May to June in Michigan, Ohio, and Massachusetts. In addition, at least 16 other states have reported cases of Salmonella Typhimurium infection that match this strain. Further investigations are underway to determine if these infections are also related to these products or the earlier FDA recall of Salmonella Typhimurium tainted ice cream sold by Cold Stone Creamery.

The FDA collected several samples of the orange juice from the suspect time period. Salmonella Saintpaul was found in a sample from July 25, 2005; however, Salmonella typhimurium was identified as the source of 72 outbreak-associated cases reported by mid-July. Ill individuals ranged in age from 17 months to 77 years old.

 

Contrary to what we have been told, salmonella and e coli can exist in acid conditions. They have an Acid Tolerance Response (ATR) where a mildly acidic environment actually sets them up to be able to withstand the extremely acidic conditions in the stomach. Researchers consider that this is what happened in the Orange Juice outbreak above. Salmonella infected Orange Juice, pH 3.30 to 4.15 caused ATR which enabled the bacteria to survive the stomach acid and invade the gut, causing widespread illness. Cider Vinegar at pH 5 to 7 is less acidic than Orange Juice. Draw your own conclusions.

.

[holmsidelofts]

Protective effects of vaccines against experimental salmonellosis in racing pigeons

E Uyttebroek, LA Devriese, D Gevaert, R Ducatelle, J Nelis, and F Haesebrouck

Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium.

 

 

 

Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis.

 

 

Why do people still quote the above that came from a study done 20 years ago and is irrelevant now so do everyone a favour and stop quoting it

 

The difference between vaccinating and not means if you dont and you catch salmonella fatality is very high, birds that are vaccinated can still catch it but wont get it anywhere near as bad and with little in the way of fatalities, you have to way up whats more important loosing most of your loft or not.

 

for the cost of doing it is cheaper than replacing all you dead stock, thats for sure.